LeMond II

[Don't be late Pedro]

In another report for that day we have the journalist saying Jock was worth a medal but it was a pity Greg didn't think so...

You know what, let's assume Jock wouldn't have won - but greg doing what he did ensued that Jock didn't even medal.

Well, according to Wiki (Where I am assuming you got both the quotes you keep repeating)

The U.S. team was not set up as the European teams, and did not have an independent race to determine the national champion. Instead the highest finisher at the World's was considered the national champion. LeMond had argued for the team to compete as the European teams did, but team management and Boyer voted against him. Thus unlike the other teams at the world championship, the US riders were competing against each other.

Shame you decided not to quote that.

Also

LeMond was supported by his teammate George Mount, who observed

What's LeMond going to do? Throw his bike down in front of everybody because Boyer is such a good buddy of everyone?...Hell no—he's going to start sprinting because it's less than 200 meters to go and the sprint's already been going for a couple hundred meters. LeMond made a good move and a good sprint...Boyer was not going to win that race. The best he could have got was fifth or sixth place.

 

[Digger]

Well, according to Wiki (Where I am assuming you got both the quotes you keep repeating)



Shame you decided not to quote that.

Also

LeMond was supported by his teammate George Mount, who observed

No...one quote from wiki,

Another one from an Aussie report.

Another quote from a British report - the one where it says 'it's a shame greg did not think so.'

People are saying there is no debate here - there clearly is and was. As evidenced by the article that Radio referenced - the heading
'The controversial 1982 world’s'


As I said, by going up to Jock he totally wrecked whatever chance he had (however small) of a medal...

I asked Greg about it at the finish, and he told me that he didn’t care who won, as long as it wasn’t me – as I didn’t deserve it.”

 

[Race Radio]

So you follow johan on twitter and b**** about him...awesome!

......Says @vaughters #1 stalker

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

People are saying there is no debate here - there clearly is and was. As evidenced by the article that Radio referenced - the heading
'The controversial 1982 world’s'

It would be very unlike a publication to try and grab your attention with provocative headline...

As I said, by going up to Jock he totally wrecked whatever chance he had (however small) of a medal...

But if there was an agreement beforehand for the American's to race as individuals would you still think that LeMond was in the wrong?

 

[Digger]

......Says @vaughters #1 stalker

Now now - if some people were as tough on others as they were on lance and johan we might be getting places.



Anyway...I don't follow JV...unlike you and johan...sweet!

 

[Digger]

It would be very unlike a publication to try and grab your attention with provocative headline...


But if their was an agreement beforehand for the American's to race as individuals would you still think that LeMond was in the wrong?

I asked Greg about it at the finish, and he told me that he didn’t care who won, as long as it wasn’t me – as I didn’t deserve it.”

..............

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

..............

That quote is not answering the question.

 

[Digger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jjZnpXZ9MP4#t=407

here is Phil from that day right at the point greg attacked from the group

 

[Afrank]

Let's stick to discussing the topic and not who we follow or each other, thank you.

 

[Race Radio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jjZnpXZ9MP4#t=407

here is Phil from that day right at the point greg attacked from the group

Thanks for proving my point. Clearly Jock had no chance to win or medal. As has already been mentioned the US riders paid their own way to the race, they were not riding as a team.....It was discussed prior to the race. LeMond and Mount remember it but Jock has selective amnesia

 

[Digger]

Thanks for proving my point. Clearly Jock had no chance to win or medal. As has already been mentioned the US riders paid their own way to the race, they were not riding as a team.....It was discussed prior to the race. LeMond and Mount remember it but Jock has selective amnesia

Greg brought the group up to Jock and in doing so ruined any chance of either getting a medal (I am wrong here, Greg did get second)...the commentator says 'greg should not be doing this.'

The very least greg should have done is sat on...waited for them to chase and then ok attack them...what he did was absolute madness. They group was in a bind...because of greg. He made it simple for them

Surely there must have been some kind of tactical agreement between the two Americans? “I asked Greg about it at the finish, and he told me that he didn’t care who won, as long as it wasn’t me – as I didn’t deserve it.”

But I am sure Jock is telling lies here as well.

Everyone is wrong except Greg.

 

[Race Radio]

Greg brought the group up to Jock and in doing so ruined any chance of either getting a medal...the commentator says 'greg should not be doing this.'

But I am sure Jock is telling lies here as well.

Everyone is wrong except Greg.

Ruined any chance of either getting a medal? Greg got 2nd.

You are welcome to believe Jock. I will believe Greg, Mount, and others who know that the riders agreed prior to the race not to ride as a team and that Jock had no chance winning, or getting a medal

 

[thehog]

There is something clearly "unhinged" with a person who finds they need to record conversations with everyone they speak to.... its also not appropriate to phone up a person and not announce they you're planning to record the conversation (state laws withstanding).

 

[Digger]

There is something clearly "unhinged" with a person who finds they need to record conversations with everyone they speak to.... its also not appropriate to phone up a person and not announce they you're planning to record the conversation (state laws withstanding).

Well to phone Floyd under the pretence of it being friendly and advisory, but then to volunteer this information when he didn't need to...and the thing is that there was little or nothing to volunteer. But he made it sound like Floyd had admitted to doping...something greg said later on that Floyd did not.

 

[Benotti69]

Wait, landis is on the bad guy list now? Bummer, I like that guy

i didn't put him on the bad guy list. He isn't being hypocritcial.

I can understand why some folks would be angry that Greg does not yell about all dopers.......but that does not mean we should re-write history and pretend that Boyer could have won in 82, that is just silly.

Johan liked it though, he just started babbling about it on Twitter. Good to know he reads the forum. Expect he has lots of time on his hands now.

Hi Johan

Greg is being very selective in his condemnations, is he not?

When i see that photo of LeMond riding around the champs with Merckx, Hinault and Indruain "i think why the **** would you do that Greg? Why?"

F##k Bruyneel. Glad he is gone, he is but one rotten apple gone from the barrel full of them.

Why LeMond is happily swimming with the rest is crazy.

 

[Benotti69]

Fair enough that someone is tired of seeing Ricco, Landis etc being considered scum compared to a Contador, Basso ... no difference ...

But then when that exact poster starts praising the likes of Contador, Valverde over say a Froome, Wiggins it all goes right out the window ...

Your views may be fairly consistent but you can't honnestly tell me you haven't seen the above hypocrisy demonstrated more and more to the point where I would call it a "trend".

In fact the level to which I've seen it demonstrated is bordering on ridiculous, which was why I brought it up.

So in reply to your "no it hasn't", it most certainly has ...

To paste the whole clinic as a single entity is silly. I think everyone has their own views on who is doping and who is not and how much. I think also there is not too much consistency on how clean the peloton is.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that LeMond is being a total marshmallow regarding his opinions you've just described ... it doesn't make Lemond worse than a doper though.

I did not say he was worse than any doper.

He is giving them all legitimacy and that aint good!

That may be another obfuscation but nonetheless irrelevant to my point.

 

[the sceptic]

i didn't put him on the bad guy list. He isn't being hypocritcial.




Greg is being very selective in his condemnations, is he not?

When i see that photo of LeMond riding around the champs with Merckx, Hinault and Indruain "i think why the **** would you do that Greg? Why?"

F##k Bruyneel. Glad he is gone, he is but one rotten apple gone from the barrel full of them.

Why LeMond is happily swimming with the rest is crazy.

Lemond works for Omertasport. What more do you need to know? Its impossible to combine that with being anti doping at the same time.

 

[thehog]

Well to phone Floyd under the pretence of it being friendly and advisory, but then to volunteer this information when he didn't need to...and the thing is that there was little or nothing to volunteer. But he made it sound like Floyd had admitted to doping...something greg said later on that Floyd did not.

Watching Slaying the Badger the other night. Fairly well made but you have to admire and respect Hinault.

But you you get the impression that the LeMond's just couldn't see the glaring obvious that Hinault was teaching his underlying in the best way possible and LeMond couldn't see it. He was too paranoid.

Several years later Greg has not changed. He phoned Landis with one intention; to see if he could get dirt on Armstrong. He had little intention of supporting a person who was caught between not-actually testing positive, was fighting the UCI mafia and seeing his Tour title about to be lost. LeMond did offer up some personal information on himself but you can see he did so as a lure to draw out information from Floyd.

LeMond was a classy bike rider but has some serious issues in the manner which he conducts himself. Pantani is loved because he never rode with Armstrong and beat him. LeMond loves that.

He's not anti-doping just anti-Lance and anti having his legacy spoiled.

Good on him for fighting Armstrong in the press but like Walsh he took a lot of collateral damage with him.

 

[BroDeal]

Well to phone Floyd under the pretence of it being friendly and advisory, but then to volunteer this information when he didn't need to...and the thing is that there was little or nothing to volunteer. But he made it sound like Floyd had admitted to doping...something greg said later on that Floyd did not.

One thing that has become very clear is that a lot of what people were writing off as Armstrong smears has turned out to be true. LeMond's beef with Armstrong really was jealousy that LA had eclipsed him in the America. He certainly does not have a problem with Indurain, whose doping ended his chances of winning the Tour again. Walsh has been revealed as just as unprincipled as Armstrong, maybe even more so. Tygart did not care one iota about cleaning up cycling; contrary to his lies, it was always about getting Armstrong and the publicity that would come from that. And Betsy has shown herself to be a vindictive crazy person who spent years before the SCA case intriguing against LA and her husband's friends only to play the victim when there turned out be consequences.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I thought Landis phoned up LeMond?

Also, to try and make Landis out as a victim borders on laughable in this scenario.

 

[thehog]

I thought Landis phoned up LeMond?

Also, to try and make Landis out as a victim borders on laughable in this scenario.

Some are a little silly. They use words like good and bad, victim etc.

Best just report the facts. This is not church confessional or a public stoning session.

Nevertheless some are very fanatical in their postings.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Best just report the facts.

Coming from you this is priceless.

And, so you are saying, as a fact, that LeMond called Landis?

 

[thehog]

He told Floyd to come fully clean. He felt he could save the sport..

No he told him to sell dirt on Armstrong. If Floyd never rode for USPS LeMond would have little interest in him.

 

[the sceptic]

One thing that has become very clear is that a lot of what people were writing off as Armstrong smears has turned out to be true. LeMond's beef with Armstrong really was jealousy that LA had eclipsed him in the America. He certainly does not have a problem with Indurain, whose doping ended his chances of winning the Tour again. Walsh has been revealed as just as unprincipled as Armstrong, maybe even more so. Tygart did not care one iota about cleaning up cycling; contrary to his lies, it was always about getting Armstrong and the publicity that would come from that. And Betsy has shown herself to be a vindictive crazy person who spent years before the SCA case intriguing against LA and her husband's friends only to play the victim when there turned out be consequences.

I dont blame Lemond for hating Lance. I would too in his shoes.

But yes, it does appear that the world is a bit more complicated than
Lance = pure evil
everyone that fought Lance = saint

Its nice to be able to dig a bit deeper and learn some more about what really happened, rather than this constant barrage of posts trying to make everything Lance does look like the work of satan.

 

[MonkeyFace]

Thanks for proving my point. Clearly Jock had no chance to win or medal. As has already been mentioned the US riders paid their own way to the race, they were not riding as a team.....It was discussed prior to the race. LeMond and Mount remember it but Jock has selective amnesia

Lemond rode that correct even if the Americans weren't riding as a team. No way in hell after watching that video did Jock ever have a remote chance at even getting on the podium. Lemond finishing is the best U.S.A could really hope for. The guy who won the thing came around him like he was standing still.