LeMond II

[Benotti69]

One thing that has become very clear is that a lot of what people were writing off as Armstrong smears has turned out to be true. LeMond's beef with Armstrong really was jealousy that LA had eclipsed him in the America. He certainly does not have a problem with Indurain, whose doping ended his chances of winning the Tour again. Walsh has been revealed as just as unprincipled as Armstrong, maybe even more so. Tygart did not care one iota about cleaning up cycling; contrary to his lies, it was always about getting Armstrong and the publicity that would come from that.

I dont have a problem with the above. Armstrong in the end made it easy for people to go after him as he was totally dislikable. But I am glad they did go after the SOB. Just why did they stop with USPS.........

And Betsy has shown herself to be a vindictive crazy person who spent years before the SCA case intriguing against LA and her husband's friends only to play the victim when there turned out be consequences.

I aint seen any evidence of this.

 

[BroDeal]

Maybe LeMond should get props for preventing a child molester from being world champ.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Is that a serious question?

I dont think you will find many people here who havent frowned their eyebrows with some of LeMond's interviews the last years.

Is he a hypocrite when he stands beside Epo Mig and calls him one of the greatest of all time or is he being pragmatic? I find it hypocritical but I dont have a million dollar buisiness to sell. Do you?

Being pragmatic isnt as bad as you make it look like.

Sure, he could say all those thing we - 1% of the cycling audience, tops - want him to say, but, what would that bring?

And, do keep in mind, LeMond only got involved in that Armstrong feud because he stated he was dissappointed in him working with Ferrari.

No, Armstrong didn't get involved in that Greg Lemond thing until Lemond state he was disappointed in Armstrong working with Ferrari. It's all about perspective, right?

 

[BroDeal]

I aint seen any evidence of this.

You mean aside from talking to journalists years before the SCA arbitration...

 

[Benotti69]

You mean aside from talking to journalists years before the SCA arbitration...

A crazy person would've made up loads of lies, see Armstrong. Betsy's story has been pretty ****ing consistent for a 'crazy' person. No buying it.

 

[gooner]

No.

Greg hypocrite

Floyd, Ricco, Di Luca, Bruyneel not hypocrite

Bruyneel and Astana were playing the clean card when he got involved after the disaster of the '07 Tour.

Di Luca had 2 bans and was still left back into the sport with Katusha on his return. He gets his ban reduced significantly for co-operating and then comes out with his nonsense that he didn't "spit in the soup" for it to happen. Then gets busted again and comes out with the legalised doping rubbish.

Those two have been all over the place with their stances and it's staggering to see these guys put on pedestal above someone who is generally perceived as clean and who has spoken out on this issue as a general one that is more directed at the UCI.

Ricco came back into the sport with Vacansoleil and was given another chance by Aldo Sassi(RIP) and blew it up in people's faces who were willing to give him one. Yeah you could say Ricco isn't a hypocrite with his behaviour but to use that as some sort of thing to beat Greg with is ridiculous and not something to shout home about.

"Doping isn't the main problem, the hypocrisy is", is an absurd way of tackling the topic. All these dopers that they somehow see as not being hypocrites should get an easier ride than one that might be clean and shows a bit of inconsistency in his opinion. The latter group are deemed worse in their thinking.

Maybe Greg should have been a doper and been consistent in his opinions after all. Some see it better that way.

I can't get my head around it.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

You mean aside from talking to journalists years before the SCA arbitration...

So fu*king what? Y U mad Bro? Your hero was a lying sack of sh!t long before that, right?

 

[Benotti69]

..............

"Doping isn't the main problem, the hypocrisy is"

............

I never said this.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

No, Armstrong didn't get involved in that Greg Lemond thing until Lemond state he was disappointed in Armstrong working with Ferrari. It's all about perspective, right?

Mmmh, where did I say anything different?

Or is this the famous chicken - egg story?

You know exactly what I mean.

I thought Landis phoned up LeMond?

Also, to try and make Landis out as a victim borders on laughable in this scenario.

Indeed.

Not even mentioning the Jonathan Boyer ****ing story, come on. Who the F. is that guy anyway? USA should be proud of that silver medal of LeMond there, that amateur doper Boyer shouldnt even be there in the first place.

 

[thehog]

Bruyneel and Astana were playing the clean card when he got involved after the disaster of the '07 Tour.

Di Luca had 2 bans and was still left back into the sport with Katusha on his return. He gets his ban reduced significantly for co-operating and then comes out with his nonsense that he didn't "spit in the soup" for it to happen. Then gets busted again and comes out with the legalised doping rubbish.

Those two have been all over the place with their stances and it's staggering to see these guys put on pedestal above someone who is generally perceived as clean and who has spoken out on this issue as a general one that is more directed at the UCI.

Ricco came back into the sport with Vacansoleil and was given another chance by Aldo Sassi(RIP) and blew it up in people's faces who were willing to give him one. Yeah you could say Ricco isn't a hypocrite with his behaviour but to use that as some sort of thing to beat Greg with is ridiculous and not something to shout home about.

"Doping isn't the main problem, the hypocrisy is", is an absurd way of tackling the topic. All these dopers that they somehow see as not being hypocrites should get an easier ride than one that might be clean and shows a bit of inconsistency in his opinion. The latter group are deemed worse in their thinking.

Maybe Greg should have been a doper and been consistent in his opinions after all. Some see it better that way.

I can't get my head around it.

The reason you can't get your head around it is because you fail to see that doping is just as rampant as it was 10 years ago. The difference now is it's more sophisticated and favours the wealthy teams and riders.

The only difference between Ricco and Froome is Froome can get express TUEs and hide at altitude. Ricco had to do it all on his own.

Oh and Ricco has more talent in his left finger than Froome ever had.

 

[Gavandope]

I dont blame Lemond for hating Lance. I would too in his shoes.

But yes, it does appear that the world is a bit more complicated than
Lance = pure evil
everyone that fought Lance = saint

Its nice to be able to dig a bit deeper and learn some more about what really happened, rather than this constant barrage of posts trying to make everything Lance does look like the work of satan.

I don't think Greg does hate him now - only twisted people deal in absolutes such as the Ponzi peddler so I imagine now he feels vindicated and now feels more sorry for him being a pathetic pathological liar than hatred. I feel a similar way to an ex friend of mine who put me through the meat grinder in the past. Not a believer in religion but the theory of Karma in life has certainly applied to me and certainly to Greg.

 

[Race Radio]

There is something clearly "unhinged" with a person who finds they need to record conversations with everyone they speak to..

Don't why you suddenly changed your stance on Landis but I think it is pretty cool that he wore a wire when the talked with Michael Ball. You might think Floyd is unhinged, I think he is a pretty smart, funny, guy

 

[sniper]

I never said this.

sky clones do proof themselves to be innovative in terms of providing strawmen left, right and center.

 

[mewmewmew13]

If I remember correctly there was nothing at all "unhinged" about Floyd doing that 'wire' thingie...it was a risk for him and provided help to the Fed case.

 

[Race Radio]

If I remember correctly there was nothing at all "unhinged" about Floyd doing that 'wire' thingie...it was a risk for him and provided help to the Fed case.

Agreed. Really hard to keep up with all the people we are supposed to hate now. I still think Floyd and Greg are good guys

 

[thehog]

Don't why you suddenly changed your stance on Landis but I think it is pretty cool that he wore a wire when the talked with Michael Ball. You might think Floyd is unhinged, I think he is a pretty smart, funny, guy

Alas a wire is not a telephone call and was part of a formal investigation. That's cool.

As you well know I was referring to LeMond. But you can pretend otherwise

Ringing up people with the sole purpose to deceive them is fairly sketchy. Especially with children who are ill. That's not helping her plight that's reenforcing her already compromised position.

To leak it to to public is... well you know, let's not go there. Cruel.

 

[Gavandope]

Alas a wire is not a telephone call and was part of a formal investigation. That's cool.

As you well know I was referring to LeMond. But you can pretend otherwise

Ringing up people with the sole purpose to deceive them is fairly sketchy. Especially with children who are ill. That's not helping her plight that's reenforcing her already compromised position.

To leak it to to public is... well you know, let's not go there. Cruel.

The same person who lied to the sca hearing and left the answer phone message at the Andreu's? He was on the truthful side of a war against a liar, one with more power and influence than anyone in the history of any sport I can possibly think of. After not recording the call from Lance and being vilified, forced to kneel and apologise he has every right to record anything he likes to aid him in his fight - for the truth.

 

[Race Radio]

Alas a wire is not a telephone call and was part of a formal investigation. That's cool.

As you well know I was referring to LeMond. But you can pretend otherwise

Ringing up people with the sole purpose to deceive them is fairly sketchy. Especially with children who are ill. That's not helping her plight that's reenforcing her already compromised position.

To leak it to to public is... well you know, let's not go there. Cruel.

Ok, so cool to lie under oath as long as your kid is sick but not cool to try to save your business when it is being attacked. FYI, Greg did not leak the tape to the public.

 

[Race Radio]

The same person who lied to the sca hearing and left the answer phone message at the Andreu's? He was on the truthful side of a war against a liar, one with more power and influence than anyone in the history of any sport I can possibly think of. After not recording the call from Lance and being vilified, forced to kneel and apologise he has every right to record anything he likes to aid him in his fight - for the truth.

Yup, same person who thought it would be great if Betsy's head was smashed in with a baseball bat

Hard to keep track of all the flip flopping. At this rate it is only a matter of time before Brailsford is hailed a victim by the same folks who buried him.

 

[thehog]

Ok, so cool to lie under oath as long as your kid is sick but not cool to try to save your business when it is being attacked. FYI, Greg did not leak the tape to the public.

It's not matter or being cool or not but there are extenuating circumstances to her situation.

She was under phenomenal duress and pressurised and worried for her son. Not an excuse but a reason. More to the point the fact that she was caught between Armstrong and LeMond and that she was female showed the utter lack of respect by both parties. Her voicemail to Betsy demonstrated the sheer anguish she was facing.

Such a sordid affair. As now the dust settles we see it's wasn't all black & white.

I'm sure the Grand Jury heard the various polemics of the situation.

 

[Gavandope]

Yup, same person who thought it would be great if Betsy's head was smashed in with a baseball bat

Hard to keep track of all the flip flopping. At this rate it is only a matter of time before Brailsford is hailed a victim by the same folks who buried him.

Indeed. Though she was also a victim of Lance's, being forced to kneel herself and lie to the hearing from the immense pressure from the monster. She was obviously very drunk, cracking up in the head and lashed out verbals at the opposite target, for outing the secret.

I don't bury or vilify anyone in cycling who is suspected of doping or involved in it - on the other hand someone with immense power who destroys peoples lives and bullies the weak simply to gain the upper hand to conceal his deceit that I do have a major problem with!

 

[Race Radio]

It's not matter or being cool or not but there are extenuating circumstances to her situation.

She was under phenomenal duress and pressurised and worried for her son. Not an excuse but a reason. More to the point the fact that she was caught between Armstrong and LeMond and that she was female showed the utter lack of respect by both parties. Her voicemail to Betsy demonstrated the sheer anguish she was facing.

Such a sordid affair. As now the dust settles we see it's wasn't all black & white.

I'm sure the Grand Jury heard the various polemics of the situation.

So Greg asking her to tell the truth and not lie is a lack of respect? Huh? You give a "Reason" (Excuse) that she was under stress......Greg's business, the major source of his livelihood, was being taken from him, that is not a "reason" enough to ask her to tell the truth?

Looking forward to you telling us how Brailsford is misunderstood genius.

 

[thehog]

Yup, same person who thought it would be great if Betsy's head was smashed in with a baseball bat

Hard to keep track of all the flip flopping. At this rate it is only a matter of time before Brailsford is hailed a victim by the same folks who buried him.

Yes, true. And why would a very normal mild mannered lady say such a thing?

Armstrong, yes. But LeMond didn't help by recording her, knowing she was compromised.

You can pretend it's all Armstrong but it's not that cut & dry. Fine for Greg to call her and offer support but to record it and release it to the public? He used her even after she detailed her plight over the phone. You condone such behaviour?

As I said. Such a sordid mess.

 

[Race Radio]

Yes, true. And why would a very normal mild mannered lady say such a thing?

Armstrong, yes. But LeMond didn't help by recording her, knowing she was compromised.

You can pretend it's all Armstrong but it's not that cut & dry. Fine for Greg to call her and offer support but to record it and release it to the public? He used her even after she detailed her plight over the phone. You condone such behaviour?

As I said. Such a sordid mess.

Funny how you trumpeted her tape for so long. Said she was a total sell out who created malicious rumors for her benefit. You said that her threats were because she wanted Betsy to tell the truth, that she wanted the story out there.....and now this? Hard to keep up with the flip flopping.

Again, Greg did not release the tape to the public.

 

[Gavandope]

Yes, true. And why would a very normal mild mannered lady say such a thing?

Armstrong, yes. But LeMond didn't help by recording her, knowing she was compromised.

You can pretend it's all Armstrong but it's not that cut & dry. Fine for Greg to call her and offer support but to record it and release it to the public? He used her even after she detailed her plight over the phone. You condone such behaviour?

As I said. Such a sordid mess.

I'm not 100% about the timeline but didn't the recording support Betsy's testimony at the SCA and Stephanie's statement being fraudulent?

Greg was in a war against a far more powerful opponent and like any conflict in the nature of the fight you might end up hurting those you shouldn't. Perhaps it's not all Armstrong but if you're talking statistics Greg gets 1% for collateral damage exposing truth and the rest is the narcissists. I bet Greg still does have some regret - but those with NPD simply don't give a monkeys about anyone bar their reflection, their needs and power. Take a look at the Wikipedia page on narcissistic personality disorder and count how many boxes you tick!