- May 15, 2014
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Re: Re:
...Not to mention Armstrong would have had no problem getting to the source and then "out" Greg for it.
blutto said:sniper said:This is one interesting post by a guy named Wolfix on some internet forum. Possibly a Lance-associate, but I honestly couldn't care less: s/he's presenting some salient details.
http://www.cyclingforums.com/topic/346048-interesting-lemond-letter-re-20-year-itt-record/page-2
Again, there may be a Lance-Lemond-smear campaign behind it. But that shouldn't dismiss us from looking at the facts, which in this case seem to be interesting enough. Greg being treated in the hospital where EPO research was done.EPO ws introduced in June with sales that month of $17 million. That part is true, but that is not the story.
Let's look at EPO and its history.
EPO was developed years before and not released, but being used in research on kidney patients. The only reason it was not available to the general public before 1989 was because of legal issues.
But here just a little room for thought.....
EPO was researched and used before 1989 in the University of California Research centers which the University of California Davis are part of. .
Erythropoietin, or EPO, is a synthetically produced hormone that promotes red blood cell production. The drug was targeted for people with kidney disease on dialysis, a process that lowers the kidneys' natural production of EPO. Other uses was soon thought of for EPO.
The drug could also be used to reduce the need for blood transfusions during surgery.
...
While this EPO research was going on at the University of California Research Centers for kidney patients , guess who was a prima donna patient in it's critical care unit ?????
[with his kidneys being one of the main problems riddled with pellets}........
Greg Lemond.......
Greg was there in the critical care unit after being shot. He had a tremendous loss of blood and over the next week he had tubes still in his chest. He was in bad shape with his life hanging on by a brake cable. So here he was, in a hospitol that was researching a drug that would help him with the post surgury recovery. A drug used for kidney problems and post surgury recovery. But not released for public sale at the time.
Now, just because Greg was in the home and research labratories of EPO does not mean he was a user.
I'm just stating he was in the same hospitol system, at the same time EPO was being tested on kidney patients. What's important here is it wasn't being tested in Europe, it wasn't being tested anywhere else in the world except in the 3 University of California research centers that Amgen used.. It was in the hospitol where Greg was. . And Greg's kidney problem that arose from being shot is exactly what they were researching EPO for. .
[We know Greg only had one kidney since he was a child, but I'm not sure if this would have affected him in any way in his recovery or during the critical time he was losing blood. ]
Why would they have used EPO on Greg?
Well, one of the early uses of EPO was as follows.......
"EPO is used to accelerate the recovery of hemoglobin to a normal level for an individual who undergoes high-blood-loss surgery. such as critical care after being shot."
Let's jump ahead here to the 1989 Giro......The day before a hilly ITT. Greg was barely hanging on, as he was all season long. But the next day he was flying......
Greg tells us that his remarkable recovery was due to a iron shot during the Giro. Otto told him he was anemic.. Now, Otto was a guy who rubbed sweaty muscles for a living. He held no degree in medicine.But he knew a iron shot was the answer.
We know Greg struggled in 1989. Then bam!!!!!! He was world beater, a totally unstoppable force over the next 4 months. He won a TDF, did the fastest ITT in the history of the sport, and won the World's by sprinting against S Kelly. In one single night, less then 24 hours , he went from the back of the pack to the best rider cycling had.
How could this possible? Let's ask Greg.
"I took a iron supplement that night,"Greg said later. "The next day I felt the improvement. Before that,on the smallest hill, I was gone."
Would a simple iron shot do this? Let's ask the doctors at the research center......
[This following info comes from a document from research at the University of Cal Davis, where Lemond was hospitolized while EPO research and usage was going on.......]
These are the documented words of UC Davis research center, not mine."With use of recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) and intravenous iron, the majority of hemodialysis patients can achieve target hemoglobin concentrations."
Hemoglobin concentrations?
Basically, EPO coupled with an iron shot would give someone a tremendous boost if what they were attempting to do required large amounts of oxygen.
Using this info from the EPO researchers, if a cyclist was suffering and using EPO, wouldn't raising your hemoglobin level maybe bring you up to speed overnight? It's my understanding that hemoglobin transports the oxygen to the lungs. That may be important for a professional cyclist. We know he used intravenious iron.
Let's say for the fun of it Greg was intoduced to and was using EPO after his stay at UC Davis. It would not have been introduced to the peloton yet as it was only available in the research centers in California until June 1989. And it would have never been tested for by the UCI.
Now......
Let's go farther with this.
None of this is proof that Greg used EPO. But chances are good he was aware of it in some form or other before any other professsional cyclist. Or possibly a doctor who was involved with Greg during his stay at UC Davis knew of the research going on and the benefits of EPO.
Greg was standing in the center of EPO central. You couldn't get any closer then he was, long before anyone in Europe had an any idea of what it was. So we had a hospitol doing research on EPO with a world class athlete in it's ward. Would there have been a better patient? Then several years later EPO becomes famous for the infamous evil it became in cycling.
Did he use it? Who knows.......
Maybe some research is needed to see what other cyclists or people were/are attched to UC Davis during that time and later become involved in professional sports.
And in the end the poster is merely suggesting something that seems to have been rumored among large parts of the peloton in the early 90s.
In any case, the claim that Greg only became aware of EPO in 1993 is hilarious at best.
....assuming the preceding is accurate....
.... you can bet that Amgen people were all over that facility baby-sitting their soon to be billion dollar baby....and as we all know Weisel was not only a big part of the Amgen effort but also very heavily involved in cycling....so the chances that Weisel wouldn't have visited that facility would approach zero, and the idea that Weisel wouldn't know that Lemond was being treated there are also pretty close to zero....so the possibility that Lemond and Weisel didn't cross paths in some way in that facility are, uhhh, pretty damn remote....
....so hypothetically if there was a face-to-face what would that meeting go like ...." Hey Greg how's it goin' ?"...."Hey Thom, well pretty good considering but this accident really has my anemia acting up...so what brings you here?" ..."funny you should ask "....again please note that the preceding is just a hypothetical but gosh this is getting real weird ain't it?....
Cheers
...Not to mention Armstrong would have had no problem getting to the source and then "out" Greg for it.