LeMond II

[thehog]

You just won't address the point about Floyd knowing about this years previously with Steffen.

You wrongfully accuse me of making things up with regards to this and deliberately try to make this thread all about me.

The personal jibes are telling on the back on what I'm saying.

It's clear as day you and Digger didn't have a clue about Steffen's whistleblower idea. A bit of a hint: normally when accusing someone of lying it's usually a good idea to have read up on something and have the info at hand. Like myself who has taken the trouble to read about this in Macur's and Emma's book.

I think people trying to paint Greg as the villain and Floyd with his light and shining armour, have brass necks considering his past shenanigans.

I sometimes wonder why I engage in here. The revisionists at play. None more so than yourself and Digger who were caught bang to rights of having entirely differing opinions on the Greg/Mcillvain tape a few years back on here. I don't forget either yourself deleting the post in question to hide your flip flopping on this.

That fact you got the books and the author incorrect, I don't think you should be accusing people of not addressing a specific issue. If you can't line your story up straight then dont bother shooting from the hip like you did.

You're just upset that Landis called out Wiggo. You're a Sky fan. That's fine, you like them. No harm done. The only problem is it clouds your judgment on issues. You don't think logically.

You've accused me before on Walsh. Stating I flip flopped. 1000 times before I told you I never praised Walsh with Armstrong. My view was always that he came to his conclusion first the found a story to tie into his books. I always said he was a poor writer. He was right about Armstrong doping but not everything he wrote. But you still accuse me of this bizarre flip flop. Like I said, your Sky bias doesn't let you think clearly.

In terms or opinions over time etc. Of course these change. The landscape has changed. One guy got a lifetime ban ams several others 6 months. That's not difficult to see, is it not? Or are you holding onto this ideal that everybody thinks the same all of the time all through their lives? No Gooner, that's doesn't happen. You might vote for David Cameron at one election and Miliband at the next. Why? Because the events and circumstances have changed.

I still think Armstrong is a tosspot but I don't need to rail against him like I use to. The job has be done. He is finished. Doesn't mean I've flip flopped.

It's fine you don't like Landis. I don't really care. But don't use your Wiggo/Sky/Froome fandom as a vehicle to crap on anyone who dares to pass judgement on them.

 

[thehog]

Pure pro-Landis propaganda. Floyd never realistically faced prison. Even after defrauding people of thousands of dollars, all he got was diversion. And look at Hincapie and Hamilton-Armstrong's other Lieutenants. What prison did they face--nothing.

Stop the hypocrisy, I say!

That's not actaully true thought is it? Landis was charged with charity fraud after his admission and faced the prospect of a prison sentence. He has to pay back what is owed.

 

[gooner]

That fact you got the books and the author incorrect, I don't think you should be accusing people of not addressing a specific issue. If you can't line your story up straight then dont bother shooting from the hip like you did.

You're just upset that Landis called out Wiggo. You're a Sky fan. That's fine, you like them. No harm done. The only problem is it clouds your judgment on issues. You don't think logically.

You've accused me before on Walsh. Stating I flip flopped. 1000 times before I told you I never praised Walsh with Armstrong. My view was always that he came to his conclusion first the found a story to tie into his books. I always said he was a poor writer. He was right about Armstrong doping but not everything he wrote. But you still accuse me of this bizarre flip flop. Like I said, your Sky bias doesn't let you think clearly.

In terms or opinions over time etc. Of course these change. The landscape has changed. One guy got a lifetime ban ams several others 6 months. That's not difficult to see, is it not? Or are you holding onto this ideal that everybody thinks the same all of the time all through their lives? No Gooner, that's doesn't happen. You might vote for David Cameron at one election and Miliband at the next. Why? Because the events and circumstances have changed.

I still think Armstrong is a tosspot but I don't need to rail against him like I use to. The job has be done. He is finished. Doesn't mean I've flip flopped.

It's fine you don't like Landis. I don't really care. But don't use your Wiggo/Sky/Froome fandom as a vehicle to crap on anyone who dares to pass judgement on them.

OK then, here we go.

I asked this numerous times and have gotten no response.

What new facts have been established for you and Digger to change your mind about the Greg/Mcillvain tape?

I'm all ears.

You couldn't be more wrong about the Steffen whistleblower case. I mentioned this point about Landis and it on the forum last year after reading the book. I can show posts backing up exactly what I said now.

I know it was in Macur's book about Floyd being approached. Feel free to correct details if I'm wrong about Lim being the guy who approached him about it. That's open to any poster. That being said, either way it's definetely there in print that Floyd knew about Steffen's whistleblower intention. That I'm certain of. This is from my recollection of reading it a year ago and all you have done is wrongfully call me a liar.

I'll be proved right.

Your reason for me hating Landis are way off the mark. I repeat, that guy was Lance Armstrong and you know full well the details of his previous shenanigans that I'm referring to.

I'm not a Sky fan and I see now I have also been accused of being a Lance fan. I'll add to the list

 

[thehog]

OK then, here we go.

I asked this numerous times and have gotten no response.

What new facts have been established for you and Digger to change your mind about the Greg/Mcillvain tape?

I'm all ears.

You couldn't be more wrong about the Steffen whistleblower case. I mentioned this point about Landis and it on the forum last year after reading the book. I can show posts backing it up exactly what I said now.

I know it was in Macur's book about Floyd being approached. Feel free to correct details if I'm wrong about Lim being the guy who approached him about it. That's open to any poster. That being said, either way it's definetely there in print Floyd knew about Steffen's whistleblower intention. That I'm certain of. This is from my recollection of reading it a year ago and all you have done is wrongfully call me a liar.

I'll be proved right.

Your reason for me hating Landis are way off the mark. I repeat, that guy was Lance Armstrong and you know full well the details of his previous shenanigans.

I'm not a Sky fan and I see now I have also been accused of being a Lance fan. I'll add to the list

Good for you. I didn't realise all you wanted was to be right. You've managed to turn this into Tailwind II Redux, whereby the discussion is lost by one poster trying to be right about everything in the world and not considering other views. Good luck with that!

So why are you asking all these questions? I actually have no idea except the fact that you actually have no idea. Those books, don't have source information. That's a big problem. But seeing that you love Walsh, no doubt you believe everything you read. Again, good luck with that!

You keep talking about "incentive" which has been demonstrated to you doesn't exisit.

Sounds to me you're angry with Landis because he got a Lance into trouble and teased Wiggins?

We get it, you hate Landis.

 

[gooner]

Good for you. I didn't realise all you wanted was to be right. You've managed to turn this into Tailwind II Redux, whereby the discussion is lost by one poster trying to be right about everything in the world and not considering other views. Good luck with that!

So why are you asking all these questions? I actually have no idea except the fact that you actually have no idea. Those books, don't have source information. That's a big problem. But seeing that you love Walsh, no doubt you believe everything you read. Again, good luck with that!

You keep talking about "incentive" which has been demonstrated to you doesn't exisit.

Sounds to me you're angry with Landis because he got a Lance into trouble and teased Wiggins?

We get it, you hate Landis.

No answer once again to the question about the tape.

Implying I was posting a falsehood about Steffen/Landis is the reason why I feel necessary about the point being proved correct in this instance.

One thing you got right. I don't like Landis and to repeat not for the reasons you suggest.

Lance fan again.

 

[thehog]

No answer once again to the question about the tape.

Implying I was posting a falsehood about Steffen/Landis is the reason why I feel necessary about the point being proved correct in this instance.

One thing you got right. I don't like Landis and to repeat not for the reasons you suggest.

Lance fan again.

What is your question about the tape?

 

[MarkvW]

Greg LeMond never should have taken Fraudulent Floyd's telephone call.
That's what I have learned in this discussion.

 

[gooner]

What is your question about the tape?

From the previous page:

What new facts have been established for you and Digger to change your mind about the Greg/Mcillvain tape?

I'm all ears.

 

[thehog]

From the previous page:

Greg got a big fat pay out from Trek. Even after making his sleazy call and releasing it into the Internet.

My opinion has always been the same. When Armstrong was still riding the tape added some validity on a very small scale to those who thought he was doping over those who didn't.

Now that Arnstrong has finally been caught it doesn't change the fact of what LeMond did. The manner in which he lied, obtained the information from a single mother to further his own financial gain in the dispute with Trek.

In terms of bringing down Armstrong the tape had zero significance. It was mildly entertaining internet fodder.

LeMond played the same game as Armstrong. He had a business relationship with Trek. He saw a threat to that with Armstrong. So rather than dealing with Trek direct he teamed up with Walsh to stay off that threat. Armstrong retaliated and LeMond cried. A lot. Which lead him to preying on others and recording phone calls even he was asked if he was recording he said no.

Armstrong goes down and Greg gets a nice pay out. Bingo.

Happy?

 

[gooner]

Greg got a big fat pay out from Trek. Even after making his sleazy call and releasing it into the Internet.

My opinion has always been the same. When Armstrong was still riding the tape added some validity on a very small scale to those who thought he was doping over those who didn't.

Now that Arnstrong has finally been caught it doesn't change the fact of what LeMond did. The manner in which he lied, obtained the information from a single mother to further his own financial gain in the dispute with Trek.

In terms of bringing down Armstrong the tape had zero significance. It was mildly entertaining internet fodder.

LeMond played the same game as Armstrong. He had a business relationship with Trek. He saw a threat to that with Armstrong. So rather than dealing with Trek direct he teamed up with Walsh to stay off that threat. Armstrong retaliated and LeMond cried. A lot. Which lead him to preying on others and recording phone calls even he was asked if he was recording he said no.

Armstrong goes down and Greg gets a nice pay out. Bingo.

Happy?

Which is totally opposite to what you said in your deleted post where you hammered Lance fans for saying the same as you in the bolded.

Fact: no new info was established for someone to change their mind full circle.

 

[thehog]

Fact: no new info was established for someone to change their mind full circle.

Except for Greg cashing in. Big time. Greg wanted to win the business battle and did so by making his recording.

Judging by your post your real issue is with me? Not with Greg and his phone call. I think that you don't like me. You appear strangly obsessed by some mysterious post. Do you pay this much attention to other people on the forum or just me?

Can we go through your old posts on Paula Radcliffe?

 

[gooner]

Except for Greg cashing in. Big time. Greg wanted to win the business battle and did so by making his recording.

Judging by your post your real issue is with me? Not with Greg and his phone call. I think that you don't like me. You appear strangly obsessed by some mysterious post. Do you pay this much attention to other people on the forum or just me?

I'm just pointing out two differing stances I feel you've had on this at various stages.

Hog, it's nothing personal. I don't dislike you at all. It's in the context of the thread I see all this.

Can we go through your old posts on Paula Radcliffe?

Feel free. Although I wouldn't want you to get "obsessed by some mysterious post".

 

[MarkvW]

I'm just pointing out two differing stances I feel you've had on this at various stages.

Hog, it's nothing personal. I don't dislike you at all. It's in the context of the thread I see all this.



Feel free. Although I wouldn't want you to get "obsessed by some mysterious post".

I think Hog's just reminiscent of Maserati, and he's trying to get you to play the role that Maserati would have played, had he not been banned.

 

[Digger]

Pure pro-Landis propaganda. Floyd never realistically faced prison. Even after defrauding people of thousands of dollars, all he got was diversion. And look at Hincapie and Hamilton-Armstrong's other Lieutenants. What prison did they face--nothing.

Stop the hypocrisy, I say!

You haven't got a clue. You really don't.

And you are meant to be a lawyer.

I ask you again would you say this, about landis, the father in law, the fund, what you call him etc, to him directly?

 

[Digger]

Re: Gooner - so people aren't allowed change their opinions of people once they find out more information.

Aside from that you keep citing Macur's book - one that didn't have Floyd's input and had many lies relating to steffen and lim and others...and even with that you are unsure.

You then ignore that landis, by confessing, was opening himself up to legal issues which would drag on for a couple of years. Knew full well the fraud case would be opened. Knew it would have to pay the fund back, knew the authorities would come after him, knew there was a chance of prison. And by the way, all this would then impact on his success chances re: the qui tam case.


Mark talks of hypocrisy.....three years ago he said numerous times he was quitting this place and not posting on here anymore...what changed his mind? His hatred of landis...a guy he says was at fault for his father in law's death? I have asked him numerous times would he say this to landis directly.

 

[blackcat]

You then ignore that landis, by confessing, was opening himself up to legal issues which would drag on for a couple of years. Knew full well the fraud case would be opened. Knew it would have to pay the fund back, knew the authorities would come after him, knew there was a chance of prison. And by the way, all this would then impact on his success chances re: the qui tam case.

Qui Tam does not get up without coming clean. So you are asserting a paradox here.

you are more stupid than stupid. for chrissakes. for muslim chrissakes. for judaism chrissakes. for buddhist chrissakes. for confucius chrissakes. for hindi chrissakes. for CHRISSAKES capital and phonetics.

sounds legit

seems legit
for chrissakes

good grief god help me

 

[Digger]

Qui Tam does not get up without coming clean. So you are asserting a paradox here.

you are more stupid than stupid. for chrissakes. for muslim chrissakes. for judaism chrissakes. for buddhist chrissakes. for confucius chrissakes. for hindi chrissakes. for CHRISSAKES capital and phonetics.

sounds legit

seems legit
for chrissakes

good grief god help me

Are you high?

Listen the guy who is claiming landis didn't come clean completely and then backs out because he can't specify one example...

Over this thread in particular you have shown yourself to not have on iota about landis, the case, anything - other than a few headlines on cyclingnews...you then boast about all the forums you've been a part of over the years as if this is something to be proud of.


That Gooner is saying landis only came forward and risked jail, paying back the fund, for the qui tam case is nonsensical - clearly a line you are agreeing with....so he was willing to go to jail, get a criminal record, get tied up in years of legal fees and time fighting with the authorities, all for a case which still might not work out - it's still very debatable, as it was then, whether he'll receive a cent - years later...and the fact that you and others don't grasp that a conviction in the fund case impacts on him for the qui tam shows how stupid, clueless, ill informed you are....

now run along and post yet again about the fat loss steroids the pros are taking - which you have derived from Wikipedia.

 

[@NL_LeMondFans]

Greg got a big fat pay out from Trek.

Armstrong goes down and Greg gets a nice pay out. Bingo.

Happy?

Not true. Check your facts. All the Trek money went to charity.

Greg made Trek pay. Greg made clear Trek had done wrong. Greg did not get any cash out of this.

 

[@NL_LeMondFans]

Good read.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/100-tours-100-tales/2015/jan/28/what-is-lance-armstrong-doing

 

[thehog]

Not true. Check your facts. All the Trek money went to charity.

Greg made Trek pay. Greg made clear Trek had done wrong. Greg did not get any cash out of this.

All the money?

Eh, no. The terms were confidential with a donation made public.

While some of the terms are confidential, attorney Jamie DiBoise said the agreement includes Trek making two payments of $100,000 each to 1in6.org, a charity LeMond is involved with. ?The first payment will be made very quickly, the second one will be a year from now,? DiBoise said.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/02/news/treklemond-lawsuit-settled_103631#Avm4XyEhcl3hCZKi.99

Talks about proofs.

 

[@NL_LeMondFans]

So, your proof is : confidential = money ?

I'm not familiar with your legal system so I am enclined to give you that but, then again, we don't know for sure if there was money or how much money.

...and, then again, you were expecting Greg to let Trek take down his brand without budging ? What would you have done ?

Again, you interpret Greg's intentions : goin' at it for the money. What about justice ? I think it's not incompatible.

 

[thehog]

I'm just pointing out two differing stances I feel you've had on this at various stages.

Hog, it's nothing personal. I don't dislike you at all. It's in the context of the thread I see all this.

Feel free. Although I wouldn't wanyou to get "obsessesome mysterious post".

I'm still not sure what point you're attempting to assert. Is this about me or Greg LeMond? Whether you like me or not is not a matter for this thread. Best keep that to yourself.

Thus far you've avoided any discussion on LeMond and all you've contributed is making statements defending Wiggins & Sky and then lambasting Landis.

The thread after all is named "LeMond", wouldn't it be better if we discussed LeMond and his tape recorder? Rather than your personal crusade to defend Sky?

Just a thought.

 

[thehog]

So, your proof is : confidential = money ?

I'm not familiar with your legal system so I am enclined to give you that but, then again, we don't know for sure if there was money or how much money.

...and, then again, you were expecting Greg to let Trek take down his brand without budging ? What would you have done ?

Again, you interpret Greg's intentions : goin' at it for the money. What about justice ? I think it's not incompatible.

It's fairly starlight forward. Gregs settlement was confidential. The feel good donation to charity was not.

Think about it.

As for justice? You think recording a single mother telling her he's not recording is justice? Umm, ok.

 

[@NL_LeMondFans]

It's fairly starlight forward. Gregs settlement was confidential. The feel good donation to charity was not.

Think about it.

As for justice? You think recording a single mother telling her he's not recording is justice? Umm, ok.

No I don't. I guess that you didn't read my previous posts about my experience on that matter. Nevermind, I won't take it personnally.

You're changing the subject. The justice I was referring to was the collapse of LeMondBikes. Was it fair ?

I don't know where the McIlvain phone call (this trial ? another ?) appeared but I totally agree that it's not ok to tell someone you're not recording but you are. As I said before.

But putting this single mistake on the same level as LA's multiple wrongdoings is quite ridiculous, IMO.

 

[@NL_LeMondFans]

The thread after all is named "LeMond", wouldn't it be better if we discussed LeMond and his tape recorder?

Is there anyone here who said the Mc Ilvain tape was "cool" ?

Wouldn't this thread be better if all moved on from that single fact ?