LeMond II

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Geez, this thread is still going? Who would have thunk?

LeMond reiginited this thread with his love-ins at the TdF with all the lovely nice ex dopers

It would appear with LeMond, USA* dopers bad, rest of world dopers good.

*Especially TdF winners.

Lemond is one of those guys who actually, truly loves the sport. It wasn't just a vehicle to support his other ambitions (i.e., guys like Armstrong) - he actually loves the sport. The one which he was ostracized from for nearly a decade. The sport went from dirty to cesspool right about the time he retired, but what's a guy like him supposed to do? In his heart he's still a cyclist and gets a thrill from being "home" at the races that define his passions.

In other words, I get how he can be clean, against doping, and yet still want to embrace the sport and all the flawed people around it. Just don't try to ruin him, destroy his reputation and his livelihood because he won't back down. Ever.

John Swanson

Whilst that sounds lovely and is big on sentiment is doesn’t get away from the issue of LeMond’s actions post his career end. A lot of what he does is about how to promote “Greg Inc.” No harm in doing that, he is a business man. I don’t think he is actually anti-doping but more PR for the range of investments he has made. No doubt Armstrong was a threat to that and rightly so LeMond fought against and prevailed. I don’t see his actions in other areas in line with being considered “anti-doping’ in the vein of Kimmage for example. Its more in the self-promotion of brand LeMond.

Darn good bike racer I will say. Probably just about the best of that era. As for being clean? 1990 Tour win was probably more of concern than 89 but I don’t think we’ll ever really know.

Bottom line; LeMond will do what's right for LeMond, less what's right for bike racing.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Geez, this thread is still going? Who would have thunk?

LeMond reiginited this thread with his love-ins at the TdF with all the lovely nice ex dopers

It would appear with LeMond, USA* dopers bad, rest of world dopers good.

*Especially TdF winners.

Lemond is one of those guys who actually, truly loves the sport. It wasn't just a vehicle to support his other ambitions (i.e., guys like Armstrong) - he actually loves the sport. The one which he was ostracized from for nearly a decade. The sport went from dirty to cesspool right about the time he retired, but what's a guy like him supposed to do? In his heart he's still a cyclist and gets a thrill from being "home" at the races that define his passions.

In other words, I get how he can be clean, against doping, and yet still want to embrace the sport and all the flawed people around it. Just don't try to ruin him, destroy his reputation and his livelihood because he won't back down. Ever.

John Swanson

This. Exactly.

Not sure why it's so hard to understand. The argument seems to be "If Lemond doesn't see anti-doping in the same black-and-white way I do, he must be compromised". Seems silly.

Well he is compromised. He shot down Armstrong and Landis but not others. Pretty monochromatic.

I have no doubt LeMond loves cycling. Never questioned that. But that he will hang with the dopers to sell bikes is hypocritical. That is not the solution, that is part of the problem. We wont have a clean sport if guys like LeMond who is held up at the last clean winner and the outlier of clean performance is patting Vino, Hinault, Indurain and Merckx's on the back.

As for the sport ostracising him, well he chose to call it and it looks like he learnt his lesson, he aint gonna call anyone a fraud again is he?

The sport was a cesspit in LeMonds time and long before.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Re:

Geez, this thread is still going? Who would have thunk?

LeMond reiginited this thread with his love-ins at the TdF with all the lovely nice ex dopers

It would appear with LeMond, USA* dopers bad, rest of world dopers good.

*Especially TdF winners.

Lemond is one of those guys who actually, truly loves the sport. It wasn't just a vehicle to support his other ambitions (i.e., guys like Armstrong) - he actually loves the sport. The one which he was ostracized from for nearly a decade. The sport went from dirty to cesspool right about the time he retired, but what's a guy like him supposed to do? In his heart he's still a cyclist and gets a thrill from being "home" at the races that define his passions.

In other words, I get how he can be clean, against doping, and yet still want to embrace the sport and all the flawed people around it. Just don't try to ruin him, destroy his reputation and his livelihood because he won't back down. Ever.

John Swanson

This. Exactly.

Not sure why it's so hard to understand. The argument seems to be "If Lemond doesn't see anti-doping in the same black-and-white way I do, he must be compromised". Seems silly.

It's not silly.

To say Lance did not love the sport is a bit silly in my opinion (I know you did not post that). We do know he was a bully Btard but with respect to how much he loved the sport that could be argued.

Seems the only Hard on Greg has is with USA dopers not anyone else. YMMV as I see already it does.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

Here's the final time trial from the Tour De Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfyUzfbJr8

I remember reading that it was fact that LeMond finished fourth behind three 7-11 riders that he considered using aero/tri bars.

Whew, Greg blowing past Davis - bullhorns versus aerobars - is impressive.

wrt Le Tour, did anyone not have an aero helmet at that 89 TdT? WTF was Fignon thinking with no aero helmet and a ponytail? Not like TdF was an important race or anything.

Dumb.

Dave.

8m51s into the video...what in the actual f....

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Here's the final time trial from the Tour De Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfyUzfbJr8

I remember reading that it was fact that LeMond finished fourth behind three 7-11 riders that he considered using aero/tri bars.

Whew, Greg blowing past Davis - bullhorns versus aerobars - is impressive.

wrt Le Tour, did anyone not have an aero helmet at that 89 TdT? WTF was Fignon thinking with no aero helmet and a ponytail? Not like TdF was an important race or anything.

Dumb.

Dave.

8m51s into the video...what in the actual f....

I have no idea!

A real head scratcher...

 

[Semper Fidelis]

So this discussion was just shut down or what?

Just watched a vid where all these guys were hitting the "turbo C" bottles on the descents while being televised. What was up with those little brown bottles of fun?

 

[HelmutRoole]

Re: Re:

Here's the final time trial from the Tour De Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfyUzfbJr8

I remember reading that it was fact that LeMond finished fourth behind three 7-11 riders that he considered using aero/tri bars.

Whew, Greg blowing past Davis - bullhorns versus aerobars - is impressive.

wrt Le Tour, did anyone not have an aero helmet at that 89 TdT? WTF was Fignon thinking with no aero helmet and a ponytail? Not like TdF was an important race or anything.

Dumb.

Dave.

I know, man! Totally dumb! Totally! He might as well have tied a parachute around his neck. Total moron! If he wasn't so stupid he'd probably won the Tour that year, because? Because he had enough testosterone and steroids in and on his personage to start a pharmacy. Said as much. He should've been a shoe-in. But, because of his stupidity and vanity (French, they'd never wear something so totally uncool as an aero helmet; not in 1989 anyway) he lost. I mean, had he pulled his head out and realized the pitfalls of bullhorns and poney tails, actually been on even footing with Greg, and then lost?

Well...

Well, that would raise unsettling arguments. Like, it's not normal for a clean rider to beat a doped rider, especially on the last day of a GT, rght? I mean, isn't that right? Testosterone? Doesn't it sound right?

Eh. Bla Bla Bla. Let's not think about that. It's a total killjoy. What we all need to focus on is the fact that Fig f'ed himself. He f'ed himself, man! He wasn't on even footing because he was an idiot! Good triumphs! Praise Jesus!

Three cheers for Greg LeMond! The last clean rider to ever win anything!

Hip hip!

... Don't leave me hanging here.

Hip hip!

 

[chuckmicD]

Re: Re:

Here's the final time trial from the Tour De Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfyUzfbJr8

I remember reading that it was fact that LeMond finished fourth behind three 7-11 riders that he considered using aero/tri bars.

Whew, Greg blowing past Davis - bullhorns versus aerobars - is impressive.

wrt Le Tour, did anyone not have an aero helmet at that 89 TdT? WTF was Fignon thinking with no aero helmet and a ponytail? Not like TdF was an important race or anything.

Dumb.

Dave.

I know, man! Totally dumb! Totally! He might as well have tied a parachute around his neck. Total moron! If he wasn't so stupid he'd probably won the Tour that year, because? Because he had enough testosterone and steroids in and on his personage to start a pharmacy. Said as much. He should've been a shoe-in. But, because of his stupidity and vanity (French, they'd never wear something so totally uncool as an aero helmet; not in 1989 anyway) he lost. I mean, had he pulled his head out and realized the pitfalls of bullhorns and poney tails, actually been on even footing with Greg, and then lost?

Well...

Well, that would raise unsettling arguments. Like, it's not normal for a clean rider to beat a doped rider, especially on the last day of a GT, rght? I mean, isn't that right? Testosterone? Doesn't it sound right?

Eh. Bla Bla Bla. Let's not think about that. It's a total killjoy. What we all need to focus on is the fact that Fig f'ed himself. He f'ed himself, man! He wasn't on even footing because he was an idiot! Good triumphs! Praise Jesus!

Three cheers for Greg LeMond! The last clean rider to ever win anything!

Hip hip!

... Don't leave me hanging here.

Hip hip!

I think you nailed it, dude. The whole aero bars/ponytail deathmatch has been drilled into cycling's consciousness. When combined with American exceptionalism and LeMond's fingerpointing, failures and Pheonix-like qualities....Lemond has achieved cleans level +1000.

But yes, he was a talented young man, riding a bicycle through a corrupt world, and surely some of it rubbed off on him.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Re: Re:

Here's the final time trial from the Tour De Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfyUzfbJr8

I remember reading that it was fact that LeMond finished fourth behind three 7-11 riders that he considered using aero/tri bars.

Whew, Greg blowing past Davis - bullhorns versus aerobars - is impressive.

wrt Le Tour, did anyone not have an aero helmet at that 89 TdT? WTF was Fignon thinking with no aero helmet and a ponytail? Not like TdF was an important race or anything.

Dumb.

Dave.

I know, man! Totally dumb! Totally! He might as well have tied a parachute around his neck. Total moron! If he wasn't so stupid he'd probably won the Tour that year, because? Because he had enough testosterone and steroids in and on his personage to start a pharmacy. Said as much. He should've been a shoe-in. But, because of his stupidity and vanity (French, they'd never wear something so totally uncool as an aero helmet; not in 1989 anyway) he lost. I mean, had he pulled his head out and realized the pitfalls of bullhorns and poney tails, actually been on even footing with Greg, and then lost?

Well...

Well, that would raise unsettling arguments. Like, it's not normal for a clean rider to beat a doped rider, especially on the last day of a GT, rght? I mean, isn't that right? Testosterone? Doesn't it sound right?

Eh. Bla Bla Bla. Let's not think about that. It's a total killjoy. What we all need to focus on is the fact that Fig f'ed himself. He f'ed himself, man! He wasn't on even footing because he was an idiot! Good triumphs! Praise Jesus!

Three cheers for Greg LeMond! The last clean rider to ever win anything!

Hip hip!

... Don't leave me hanging here.

Hip hip!

I think you nailed it, dude. The whole aero bars/ponytail deathmatch has been drilled into cycling's consciousness. When combined with American exceptionalism and LeMond's fingerpointing, failures and Pheonix-like qualities....Lemond has achieved cleans level +1000.

But yes, he was a talented young man, riding a bicycle through a corrupt world, and surely some of it rubbed off on him.

Sure. Like a contact high standing in the front row of a Pink Floyd gig.

It's truly not the nature of the evidence.... what matters is the seriousness of the accusation.

 

[HelmutRoole]

Re: Re:

Here's the final time trial from the Tour De Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfyUzfbJr8

I remember reading that it was fact that LeMond finished fourth behind three 7-11 riders that he considered using aero/tri bars.

Whew, Greg blowing past Davis - bullhorns versus aerobars - is impressive.

wrt Le Tour, did anyone not have an aero helmet at that 89 TdT? WTF was Fignon thinking with no aero helmet and a ponytail? Not like TdF was an important race or anything.

Dumb.

Dave.

I know, man! Totally dumb! Totally! He might as well have tied a parachute around his neck. Total moron! If he wasn't so stupid he'd probably won the Tour that year, because? Because he had enough testosterone and steroids in and on his personage to start a pharmacy. Said as much. He should've been a shoe-in. But, because of his stupidity and vanity (French, they'd never wear something so totally uncool as an aero helmet; not in 1989 anyway) he lost. I mean, had he pulled his head out and realized the pitfalls of bullhorns and poney tails, actually been on even footing with Greg, and then lost?

Well...

Well, that would raise unsettling arguments. Like, it's not normal for a clean rider to beat a doped rider, especially on the last day of a GT, rght? I mean, isn't that right? Testosterone? Doesn't it sound right?

Eh. Bla Bla Bla. Let's not think about that. It's a total killjoy. What we all need to focus on is the fact that Fig f'ed himself. He f'ed himself, man! He wasn't on even footing because he was an idiot! Good triumphs! Praise Jesus!

Three cheers for Greg LeMond! The last clean rider to ever win anything!

Hip hip!

... Don't leave me hanging here.

Hip hip!

I think you nailed it, dude. The whole aero bars/ponytail deathmatch has been drilled into cycling's consciousness. When combined with American exceptionalism and LeMond's fingerpointing, failures and Pheonix-like qualities....Lemond has achieved cleans level +1000.

But yes, he was a talented young man, riding a bicycle through a corrupt world, and surely some of it rubbed off on him.

Sure. Like a contact high standing in the front row of a Pink Floyd gig.

It's truly not the nature of the evidence.... what matters is the seriousness of the accusation.

Seriousness indeed, man! I was laying in bed just yesterday staring at my Greg LeMond posters on the ceiling when my mom came in and said, "You know son, he probably doped too." And I was all like, shut it, mom! And she said, "I just don't want to see you get hurt again like the time Lance went on Oprah."

I hope Greg sues her. I can't believe she said that.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Here's the final time trial from the Tour De Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfyUzfbJr8

I remember reading that it was fact that LeMond finished fourth behind three 7-11 riders that he considered using aero/tri bars.

Whew, Greg blowing past Davis - bullhorns versus aerobars - is impressive.

wrt Le Tour, did anyone not have an aero helmet at that 89 TdT? WTF was Fignon thinking with no aero helmet and a ponytail? Not like TdF was an important race or anything.

Dumb.

Dave.

I know, man! Totally dumb! Totally! He might as well have tied a parachute around his neck. Total moron! If he wasn't so stupid he'd probably won the Tour that year, because? Because he had enough testosterone and steroids in and on his personage to start a pharmacy. Said as much. He should've been a shoe-in. But, because of his stupidity and vanity (French, they'd never wear something so totally uncool as an aero helmet; not in 1989 anyway) he lost. I mean, had he pulled his head out and realized the pitfalls of bullhorns and poney tails, actually been on even footing with Greg, and then lost?

Well...

Well, that would raise unsettling arguments. Like, it's not normal for a clean rider to beat a doped rider, especially on the last day of a GT, rght? I mean, isn't that right? Testosterone? Doesn't it sound right?

Eh. Bla Bla Bla. Let's not think about that. It's a total killjoy. What we all need to focus on is the fact that Fig f'ed himself. He f'ed himself, man! He wasn't on even footing because he was an idiot! Good triumphs! Praise Jesus!

Three cheers for Greg LeMond! The last clean rider to ever win anything!

Hip hip!

... Don't leave me hanging here.

Hip hip!

Fignon was even wearing the yellow jersey which gives you the strength of ten men! Alas LeMond still beat him using good old grit and determination. That's how you win, passion! In a corrupt European sport is good to know that American sensibilities triumph over evil

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Here's the final time trial from the Tour De Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfyUzfbJr8

I remember reading that it was fact that LeMond finished fourth behind three 7-11 riders that he considered using aero/tri bars.

Whew, Greg blowing past Davis - bullhorns versus aerobars - is impressive.

wrt Le Tour, did anyone not have an aero helmet at that 89 TdT? WTF was Fignon thinking with no aero helmet and a ponytail? Not like TdF was an important race or anything.

Dumb.

Dave.

I know, man! Totally dumb! Totally! He might as well have tied a parachute around his neck. Total moron! If he wasn't so stupid he'd probably won the Tour that year, because? Because he had enough testosterone and steroids in and on his personage to start a pharmacy. Said as much. He should've been a shoe-in. But, because of his stupidity and vanity (French, they'd never wear something so totally uncool as an aero helmet; not in 1989 anyway) he lost. I mean, had he pulled his head out and realized the pitfalls of bullhorns and poney tails, actually been on even footing with Greg, and then lost?

Well...

Well, that would raise unsettling arguments. Like, it's not normal for a clean rider to beat a doped rider, especially on the last day of a GT, rght? I mean, isn't that right? Testosterone? Doesn't it sound right?

Eh. Bla Bla Bla. Let's not think about that. It's a total killjoy. What we all need to focus on is the fact that Fig f'ed himself. He f'ed himself, man! He wasn't on even footing because he was an idiot! Good triumphs! Praise Jesus!

Three cheers for Greg LeMond! The last clean rider to ever win anything!

Hip hip!

... Don't leave me hanging here.

Hip hip!

Fignon was even wearing the yellow jersey which gives you the strength of ten men! Alas LeMond still beat him using good old grit and determination. That's how you win, passion! In a corrupt European sport is good to know that American sensibilities triumph over evil

Totally!

Three cheers for Greg LeMond!

Hip hip!

Hooray!

Hip hip!

Then after defeating the French he joined a French team on a million dollar contract!

 

[MarkvW]

If LeMond wasn't already rich, I'd contribute to his fairness fund. I wouldn't fix on his dog, though. Or hate the French.

 

[pmcg76]

Re: Re:

Here's the final time trial from the Tour De Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfyUzfbJr8

I remember reading that it was fact that LeMond finished fourth behind three 7-11 riders that he considered using aero/tri bars.

Whew, Greg blowing past Davis - bullhorns versus aerobars - is impressive.

wrt Le Tour, did anyone not have an aero helmet at that 89 TdT? WTF was Fignon thinking with no aero helmet and a ponytail? Not like TdF was an important race or anything.

Dumb.

Dave.

I know, man! Totally dumb! Totally! He might as well have tied a parachute around his neck. Total moron! If he wasn't so stupid he'd probably won the Tour that year, because? Because he had enough testosterone and steroids in and on his personage to start a pharmacy. Said as much. He should've been a shoe-in. But, because of his stupidity and vanity (French, they'd never wear something so totally uncool as an aero helmet; not in 1989 anyway) he lost. I mean, had he pulled his head out and realized the pitfalls of bullhorns and poney tails, actually been on even footing with Greg, and then lost?

Well...

Well, that would raise unsettling arguments. Like, it's not normal for a clean rider to beat a doped rider, especially on the last day of a GT, rght? I mean, isn't that right? Testosterone? Doesn't it sound right?

Eh. Bla Bla Bla. Let's not think about that. It's a total killjoy. What we all need to focus on is the fact that Fig f'ed himself. He f'ed himself, man! He wasn't on even footing because he was an idiot! Good triumphs! Praise Jesus!

Three cheers for Greg LeMond! The last clean rider to ever win anything!

Hip hip!

... Don't leave me hanging here.

Hip hip!

Well, ometra breaker No 1 Willy Voet told us that Charly Mottet was a clean pro and he finished 4th twice at the Tour and 6th in 89. He even finished ahead of LeMond in 91. My query thus, why would it be unbelievable for a clean rider to win if we are to believe Voet that Mottet were indeed clean.

Giles Delion, another rider with a clean rep finished 15th in 1990 in his first Tour. Whilst Delion was seen as a big talent, I don't think he was as highly rated as a young LeMond. Delion regulary beat doped riders before illness and the arrival of EPO scuppered his career. For the record Delion finished ahead of Moreno Argentin at Milan-San Remo in 1990 when Argentin was already working with a certain Dr.Ferrari.

Far to easy to throw out the 'Clean rider cannot beat doped rider' even though we have examples to the contrary, especially in the pre-EPO era.

 

[durianrider]

A clean rep doesnt mean much. One of my Russian mates was using EPO and I was the ONLY person in cycling that knew he was.

Also Willy might have been giving Mottet props just to piss off other people that burnt him in cycling.

You can't guarantee 100% that a famous rider is natty just cos someone in the industry says they are.

 

[thehog]

Re:

A clean rep doesnt mean much. One of my Russian mates was using EPO and I was the ONLY person in cycling that knew he was.

Also Willy might have been giving Mottet props just to piss off other people that burnt him in cycling.

You can't guarantee 100% that a famous rider is natty just cos someone in the industry says they are.

Willy was using pot belge himself so he could drive the team bus for 5 days straight! He used to test the drugs on himself to test the clearance zone. He'd even inject Virenque with iron and tell him it was the black plauge so he'd ride faster under placebo! Excuse me whist we take what Willy says with a grain of salt. Mottett rode for Systeme U for crying out load and RMO!

 

[pmcg76]

Re:

A clean rep doesnt mean much. One of my Russian mates was using EPO and I was the ONLY person in cycling that knew he was.

Also Willy might have been giving Mottet props just to piss off other people that burnt him in cycling.

You can't guarantee 100% that a famous rider is natty just cos someone in the industry says they are.

Christophe Bassons called and wants his rep back.

 

[pmcg76]

Re: Re:

A clean rep doesnt mean much. One of my Russian mates was using EPO and I was the ONLY person in cycling that knew he was.

Also Willy might have been giving Mottet props just to piss off other people that burnt him in cycling.

You can't guarantee 100% that a famous rider is natty just cos someone in the industry says they are.

Willy was using pot belge himself so he could drive the team bus for 5 days straight! He used to test the drugs on himself to test the clearance zone. He'd even inject Virenque with iron and tell him it was the black plauge so he'd ride faster under placebo! Excuse me whist we take what Willy says with a grain of salt. Mottett rode for Systeme U for crying out load and RMO!

Bassons rode for Festina for crying out loud. Usual double standards here. Even when Kimmage was at RMO, there were riders who didn't give into the drug-taking. It is there in black and white in his book. Try reading it some time.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

A clean rep doesnt mean much. One of my Russian mates was using EPO and I was the ONLY person in cycling that knew he was.

Also Willy might have been giving Mottet props just to piss off other people that burnt him in cycling.

You can't guarantee 100% that a famous rider is natty just cos someone in the industry says they are.

Willy was using pot belge himself so he could drive the team bus for 5 days straight! He used to test the drugs on himself to test the clearance zone. He'd even inject Virenque with iron and tell him it was the black plauge so he'd ride faster under placebo! Excuse me whist we take what Willy says with a grain of salt. Mottett rode for Systeme U for crying out load and RMO!

Bassons rode for Festina for crying out loud. Usual double standards here. Even when Kimmage was at RMO, there were riders who didn't give into the drug-taking. It is there in black and white in his book. Try reading it some time.

Willy smoked pot belge from a bidon and shipped drugs across international borders & he's your number source?

What were you saying about double standards?

 

[pmcg76]

Re: Re:

A clean rep doesnt mean much. One of my Russian mates was using EPO and I was the ONLY person in cycling that knew he was.

Also Willy might have been giving Mottet props just to piss off other people that burnt him in cycling.

You can't guarantee 100% that a famous rider is natty just cos someone in the industry says they are.

Willy was using pot belge himself so he could drive the team bus for 5 days straight! He used to test the drugs on himself to test the clearance zone. He'd even inject Virenque with iron and tell him it was the black plauge so he'd ride faster under placebo! Excuse me whist we take what Willy says with a grain of salt. Mottett rode for Systeme U for crying out load and RMO!

Bassons rode for Festina for crying out loud. Usual double standards here. Even when Kimmage was at RMO, there were riders who didn't give into the drug-taking. It is there in black and white in his book. Try reading it some time.

Willy smoked pot belge from a bidon and shipped drugs across international borders & he's your number source?

What were you saying about double standards?

Well he was reliable enough for the French police to begin the Festina investigation. Who were the sources for Bassons, Alex Zulle and was it Laurent Brochard?? Yeah, so much better than Voet


Your belittling of Voet sounds eerily like the Lance defence 'Floyd is not credible because he is a proven liar'.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

A clean rep doesnt mean much. One of my Russian mates was using EPO and I was the ONLY person in cycling that knew he was.

Also Willy might have been giving Mottet props just to piss off other people that burnt him in cycling.

You can't guarantee 100% that a famous rider is natty just cos someone in the industry says they are.

Willy was using pot belge himself so he could drive the team bus for 5 days straight! He used to test the drugs on himself to test the clearance zone. He'd even inject Virenque with iron and tell him it was the black plauge so he'd ride faster under placebo! Excuse me whist we take what Willy says with a grain of salt. Mottett rode for Systeme U for crying out load and RMO!

Bassons rode for Festina for crying out loud. Usual double standards here. Even when Kimmage was at RMO, there were riders who didn't give into the drug-taking. It is there in black and white in his book. Try reading it some time.

Willy smoked pot belge from a bidon and shipped drugs across international borders & he's your number source?

What were you saying about double standards?

Well he was reliable enough for the French police to begin the Festina investigation. Who were the sources for Bassons, Alex Zulle and was it Laurent Brochard?? Yeah, so much better than Voet
'.

He was reliable because the French police didn't need him as they had his car with a trunk full of drugs!

 

[pmcg76]

Re: Re:

//forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1827663#p1827663]pmcg76[/url]"]

A clean rep doesnt mean much. One of my Russian mates was using EPO and I was the ONLY person in cycling that knew he was.

Also Willy might have been giving Mottet props just to piss off other people that burnt him in cycling.

You can't guarantee 100% that a famous rider is natty just cos someone in the industry says they are.

Willy was using pot belge himself so he could drive the team bus for 5 days straight! He used to test the drugs on himself to test the clearance zone. He'd even inject Virenque with iron and tell him it was the black plauge so he'd ride faster under placebo! Excuse me whist we take what Willy says with a grain of salt. Mottett rode for Systeme U for crying out load and RMO!

Bassons rode for Festina for crying out loud. Usual double standards here. Even when Kimmage was at RMO, there were riders who didn't give into the drug-taking. It is there in black and white in his book. Try reading it some time.[/quote]

Willy smoked pot belge from a bidon and shipped drugs across international borders & he's your number source?

What were you saying about double standards? [/quote]

Well he was reliable enough for the French police to begin the Festina investigation. Who were the sources for Bassons, Alex Zulle and was it Laurent Brochard?? Yeah, so much better than Voet
'.[/quote]

He was reliable because the French police didn't need him as they had his car with a trunk full of drugs!

Usual botlogic being applied here. Not harm. To be expected.[/quote]

Of course they needed him. He had a car full of drugs but he could have said they were for anyone which I think he did try to do to begin with. Why did the French police not pull anyone else in until after Voet had spilled the beans? Maybe you should start googling Festina affair.

Also funny how the peanut gallery are always moaning about people telling half-truths or not breaking ometra. Voet smashed it to pieces, explained in detail what went on and threw numerous people under the bus and I can gurantee the peanut gallery believe every word he said, but the minute he says a rider is clean, suddenly he is not credible anymore because he smoked pot belge.

 

[thehog]

Re: LeMond

How do you feel about Vayer and his views on Sky & Froome?

He was at Festina as well


*Double Standards (c) David Walsh 2012

 

[pmcg76]

Re: LeMond

How do you feel about Vayer and his views on Sky & Froome?

He was at Festina as well

Heeeeerreeeeee we gooooooooo 3-2-1 Botlogic is go!

*Double Standards (c) David Walsh 2012

Why would I have a problem with Vayer and his views on SKY/Froome? I am totally in agreement with his views. Are you in agreement with Vayer that J.C.Peraud is clean and the likes of Warren Barguill/Dan Martin are also clean?

Yes, Vayer was at Festina. You were the one who insinuated Mottet being at RMO meant he was dirty but are now backing my point, that that fact does not mean a lot really as Bassons/Vayer were at Festina.

 

[pmcg76]

It is quite amazing how every debate somehow ends being brought back to SKY by the same people. Surely it is possible to debate without bringing SKY into everything.