LeMond III

[popular jams]

Re:

[Fignon] has said he was disgusted with the idea of using EPO and wanted no part of it

I'd love to hear Lemond say that and at the same time explain why he invested in Weisel's Montgomery Securities.

He, like LeMond, faded badly after 91 when EPO was becoming more prevelant

Again, Lemond couldn't finish races anymore because his body just couldn't cope anymore. It had nothing to do with other ridders taking EPO. Hampsten, allegedly clean, had his best Tour de France ever in 1992.

As an interesting aside, Hampsten was coached by Max Testa, the same guy who said Lemond had simply used too much drugs during his career.

Is a sourced quote available?

 

[Aragon]

Re: Re:

[Fignon] has said he was disgusted with the idea of using EPO and wanted no part of it

I'd love to hear Lemond say that and at the same time explain why he invested in Weisel's Montgomery Securities.

He, like LeMond, faded badly after 91 when EPO was becoming more prevelant

Again, Lemond couldn't finish races anymore because his body just couldn't cope anymore. It had nothing to do with other ridders taking EPO. Hampsten, allegedly clean, had his best Tour de France ever in 1992.

As an interesting aside, Hampsten was coached by Max Testa, the same guy who said Lemond had simply used too much drugs during his career.

Is a sourced quote available?

Here is one version of the incident recalled by LeMond himself just two years ago:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/09/news/storm-exclusive-interview-greg-lemond_347148

He most likely would not have mentioned the episode at all had it not been already a part of the folklore, so there should exist an earlier reference somewhere.

 

[sniper]

@nomad,
Yes. it's very intriguing and you bring up an interesting question/argument for sure.
I don't claim to have the answer(s). In any case it seems we agree that, to put it dramatically, the advent of epo heralded a paradigm change in procycling.

Edit: thanks for the link Aragon.

 

[sniper]

to add to the folklore:

I was told, face to face, by one of the world's top triathlon coaches (multiple world champions at all distances) that by the end of his career, Lemond's blood was so thick, that he was being woken up every hour & walked for 5-10 minutes, so as to stop him dying in his sleep.

the way Nick777 was subsequently shot/shut down in that thread is creepy.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re:

to add to the folklore:

I was told, face to face, by one of the world's top triathlon coaches (multiple world champions at all distances) that by the end of his career, Lemond's blood was so thick, that he was being woken up every hour & walked for 5-10 minutes, so as to stop him dying in his sleep.

the way Nick777 was subsequently shot/shut down in that thread is creepy.

Nothing creepy at all. You've got an anonymous person claiming that another anonymous person has third-hand, highly personal information about someone they've never met. Yes, that will get shot down and quickly. The claim itself is ridiculous.

John Swanson

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

The debate about Lemond's supposedly "uber cleanliness" is moot to some extent : the fact remains that if Lemond doped, he doped like Fignon or Hinault the old fashioned way, not like the Indurains and Chiapuccis...

The old fashioned way. Oxygen vector doping, with blood bags instead of injections? Take off the rose tinted glasses. The doping in the 80s was a lot more powerful than you think.

Exactly.

just not powerful enough to go very fast

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

@nomad,
Yes. it's very intriguing and you bring up an interesting question/argument for sure.
I don't claim to have the answer(s). In any case it seems we agree that, to put it dramatically, the advent of epo heralded a paradigm change in procycling.

Edit: thanks for the link Aragon.

apart from Lemond obviously...who got slower

pesky kids

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

to add to the folklore:

I was told, face to face, by one of the world's top triathlon coaches (multiple world champions at all distances) that by the end of his career, Lemond's blood was so thick, that he was being woken up every hour & walked for 5-10 minutes, so as to stop him dying in his sleep.

the way Nick777 was subsequently shot/shut down in that thread is creepy.

Nothing creepy at all. You've got an anonymous person claiming that another anonymous person has third-hand, highly personal information about someone they've never met. Yes, that will get shot down and quickly. The claim itself is ridiculous.

John Swanson

why do you hate folklore so much.

more folklore:
http://postimg.org/image/vgxgqxt7f/

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re: Re:

Dr. Morris was a pioneer in a totally different type of allergy treatment. The cortisone thing is really just another red herring.

Brilliant argument. Einstein pioneered relativity theory. Therefore he was no longer capable of solving basic physics equations.

Nah, that is like Einstein teaching Newtonian physics to his pupils and saying nothing at all about relativity. Dr. Morris was successfully doing desensitization for years before he met LeMond. The whole point of his studies were to cure asthma through the immune system, not treat the symptoms with cortisone. A better analogy is a heart surgeon suggesting that his patient goes to acupuncturist to cure his angina. More deflection from your flawed argument that the quote says anything about cortisone use by Lemond. But carry on....

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

to add to the folklore:

I was told, face to face, by one of the world's top triathlon coaches (multiple world champions at all distances) that by the end of his career, Lemond's blood was so thick, that he was being woken up every hour & walked for 5-10 minutes, so as to stop him dying in his sleep.

the way Nick777 was subsequently shot/shut down in that thread is creepy.

Nothing creepy at all. You've got an anonymous person claiming that another anonymous person has third-hand, highly personal information about someone they've never met. Yes, that will get shot down and quickly. The claim itself is ridiculous.

John Swanson

why do you hate folklore so much.

more folklore:
http://postimg.org/image/vgxgqxt7f/

That article doesn't really say anything though. LeMond had a spectacular resurrection in 1989 and it could have been due to EPO. It was available in America and he had the money to buy it. That's all.

 

[sniper]

just for you, djbaltimore, filtered and bolded, to help you read:

... I was drastically hindered by allergies during the month of May. ...
Now the medication for things like this is cortisone...
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/blazin-saddles/lemond-predicts-froome-contador-shoot-eurosport-announce-widest-113533624.html?

 

[djpbaltimore]

BTW, that is a dead link. Fitting for the type of argument being put forth in that post! :lol:

 

[sniper]

Re:

to add to the folklore:

I was told, face to face, by one of the world's top triathlon coaches (multiple world champions at all distances) that by the end of his career, Lemond's blood was so thick, that he was being woken up every hour & walked for 5-10 minutes, so as to stop him dying in his sleep.

the way Nick777 was subsequently shot/shut down in that thread is creepy.

Nothing creepy at all. You've got an anonymous person claiming that another anonymous person has third-hand, highly personal information about someone they've never met. Yes, that will get shot down and quickly. The claim itself is ridiculous.

John Swanson

why do you hate folklore so much.

more folklore:
http://postimg.org/image/vgxgqxt7f/

That article doesn't really say anything though. LeMond had a spectacular resurrection in 1989 and it could have been due to EPO. It was available in America and he had the money to buy it. That's all.

maybe you should read the title first?

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re: Re:

more folklore:
http://postimg.org/image/vgxgqxt7f/

That article doesn't really say anything though. LeMond had a spectacular resurrection in 1989 and it could have been due to EPO. It was available in America and he had the money to buy it. That's all.

maybe you should read the title first?

The article doesn't mention anything, not even a rumour, to back that title up ... Should be "LeMond could be using doping". Could equally be "LeMond could not be using doping".
I could write an article titled "Quintana addicted to cocaine". Then quote an anonymous source saying "Cocaine is definitely available in Colombia and Nairo certainly has the money". About as much substance as the article above.

 

[Aragon]

Re: Re:

maybe you should read the title first?

That article is apperently based on a news telegram item by the Dutch news agency GPD and for one reason or another the paper chose that sensational title about someone claiming that LeMond bought expensive doping, of which the only reference in the text is the anonymous Dutch cyclists whose accusation is very vague.

Two other newspapers that based their articles on same GDP-material had less dramatical titles:
"Niet te controlen dopingmiddel ondekt" (Leeuwarder Courant)
"Nieuw dopingmiddel niet te controleren" (Nieuwsblad van het Noorden, doesn't mention GPD but is almost identical in structure)

 

[sniper]

Did they speak to the same amateur though?

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re: Re:

The article doesn't mention anything, not even a rumour, to back that title up ... Should be "LeMond could be using doping". Could equally be "LeMond could not be using doping".
I could write an article titled "Quintana addicted to cocaine". Then quote an anonymous source saying "Cocaine is definitely available in Colombia and Nairo certainly has the money". About as much substance as the article above.

Good points....

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

more folklore:
http://postimg.org/image/vgxgqxt7f/

That article doesn't really say anything though. LeMond had a spectacular resurrection in 1989 and it could have been due to EPO. It was available in America and he had the money to buy it. That's all.

maybe you should read the title first?

The article doesn't mention anything, not even a rumour, to back that title up ... Should be "LeMond could be using doping". Could equally be "LeMond could not be using doping".
I could write an article titled "Quintana addicted to cocaine". Then quote an anonymous source saying "Cocaine is definitely available in Colombia and Nairo certainly has the money". About as much substance as the article above.

But a title is part of the article. And it's between quotation marks. Not my fault.
So you can't say it doesn't directly accuse lemond. It does.
That said, I concede its just folklore.
As are the other rumours of Lemond and doping.

But even folklore has origins. Some prefer to trace those origins back to a series of antiLemond conspiracies. Others prefer to apply occams razor.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

more folklore:
http://postimg.org/image/vgxgqxt7f/

That article doesn't really say anything though. LeMond had a spectacular resurrection in 1989 and it could have been due to EPO. It was available in America and he had the money to buy it. That's all.

maybe you should read the title first?

The article doesn't mention anything, not even a rumour, to back that title up ... Should be "LeMond could be using doping". Could equally be "LeMond could not be using doping".
I could write an article titled "Quintana addicted to cocaine". Then quote an anonymous source saying "Cocaine is definitely available in Colombia and Nairo certainly has the money". About as much substance as the article above.

But a title is part of the article. And it's between quotation marks. Not my fault.
So you can't say it doesn't directly accuse lemond. It does.
That said, I concede its just folklore.
As are the other rumours of Lemond and doping.

But even folklore has origins. Some prefer to trace those origins back to a series of antiLemond conspiracies. Others prefer to apply occams razor.

You're playing fast and loose with definitions in order to create a fact where none exists. Folklore is the passing down of information and knowledge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folklore

A rumor stated once is not folklore. It's the opposite. It is not knowledge, it is fiction.

John Swanson

 

[sniper]

fair enough.
"Lemond won the TdF three times on bread and water".
Now that's folklore.

Semantics aside.
This rumor wasn't stated once. Nor twice.
There is more doping rumor about Lemond than about many other GT winners. Sorry about that.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re:

BTW, that is a dead link. Fitting for the type of argument being put forth in that post! :lol:

Still waiting for a link that works AND talks about how LeMond personally used cortisone to treat his allergies....

 

[Irondan]

Re:

Is it strawman happy hour?
Man up, stop deflecting, and address the argument.
Or don't address he argument if it leaves you speechless.
Either way stop deflecting.

How is that a strawman sniper?

You posted a dead link, he's just asking for you to post the same article in a link that we can all read.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Is it strawman happy hour?
Man up, stop deflecting, and address the argument.
Or don't address he argument if it leaves you speechless.
Either way stop deflecting.

How is that a strawman sniper?

You posted a dead link, he's just asking for you to post the same article in a link that we can all read.

The second part of his statement.
And it's the second time he s posted it.
Putting words into my mouth.
But carry on.

 

[ebandit]

There is more doping rumor about Lemond than about many other GT winners. Sorry about that.

.............one has to hunt high and low to find such rumour.............all seemingly

unsubstantiated................

Mark L

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Is it strawman happy hour?
Man up, stop deflecting, and address the argument.
Or don't address he argument if it leaves you speechless.
Either way stop deflecting.

How is that a strawman sniper?

You posted a dead link, he's just asking for you to post the same article in a link that we can all read.

The second part of his statement.

Fair enough.

Do you have access to the link you posted in another publication? I would have liked to have read it too.