LEMOND the DOPER

[RTMcFadden]

You mean the part where it says



Professional cyclists have little fat below the waist, hence the traditional use of the upper arm or stomach. Iron injections are designed to be injected into muscle, not fat, hence the use by athletes in the Buttocks.

So you're saying you're not a medical professional either.

 

[Race Radio]

So you're saying you're not a medical professional either.

I explained how and why certain injections are made in different areas of the body. Injections have been a common part of the sport for decades and while the needle men might not be medical professionals they do know what works for Professional Athletes, not cancer patients laying in bed.

Deep muscle injections go into the buttocks, subcutaneous injections go in the stomach or upper arm.

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

Deep muscle injections go into the buttocks, subcutaneous injections go in the stomach or upper arm.

No a subcutaneous injection can go in the buttocks. Plenty of subcutaneous fat there. It's just not usually practical for people doing it themselves. Deep muscle injections usually go in the upper arm or thigh.

 

[RTMcFadden]

No a subcutaneous injection can go in the buttocks. Plenty of subcutaneous fat there. It's just not usually practical for people doing it themselves. Deep muscle injections usually go in the upper arm or thigh.

Only if they are less than 2.5cc. Also, it depends on the size of the muscle. The "why" is a volume mass thing. The bigger the volume and/or the smaller the mass, the more the hurt.

 

[Race Radio]

------

once again, I am referring to Professional athletes, not cancer patients. RT clarified the amount as well.

How many banned usernames to you have?

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

Only if they are less than 2.5cc. Also, it depends on the size of the muscle. The "why" is a volume mass thing. The bigger the volume and/or the smaller the mass, the more the hurt.

Yeah, I don't mean the vain in the middle of your arm (what is that area called?) I'm talking about the tricep muscle area. That's where you get vaccine shots and where steroid users often inject.

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

once again, I am referring to Professional athletes, not cancer patients. RT clarified the amount as well.

A professional athlete might well have assistance so could inject subcontaneously in the buttock.

 

[Oncearunner8]

GL most likely believes he did his remarkable comback on a coupel of iron shots, but only the doc will ever know for certain if that's all it contained

My original reply to your post was deleted because it had a truckload of bad words in it.

I just wanted to say that the contents of your post in my opinion is a really bad take on this. I have no idea why anyone would say this about Greg when there is not even a hint of suspicion surrounding his cycling career. Was there doping in cycling then yes but as far as I can tell the only thing people can do is MAKE UP / Fabricate information about Greg.

Give it a rest.

Maybe this post can stay up because I did not insult everyone and use bad language with intentionally misspelled words.

 

[Polish]

If an Evil Team Doctor was going to sneakily inject Greg with something labeled "Iron" but really something else. And the Doc had to fool Greg.
Where would be a good place, the only place really, to inject Greg?

As they say, a shot in the arm is worth three in the bum.

I find Greg's account of the injection session interesting.
His account on how he was paranoid about being set up and the way he uniquely stamped his fingerprint on the hot wax seal of the B sample and photograph it to avoid any Anti-American hanky panky.

Greg also said that cycling was "dark" back then I think he called it, nasty drug stuff going on. He also said he checked the vial to make sure it said "Iron" just for that reason. What drug was Greg making sure it was not?

This account seems to be inconsistent with the "country bumpkin" myth that Greg was a bit naive about the doping swirling around him back then.

 

[Franklin]

Iron shots are an integral part of an Epo program or a blood doping program. This is why people wonder about it. There is no discussion if the shot was not Iron, the discussion was why he took it.

The problem is that being curious about it reveals you to be a Greg hater and Lance lover. This topic is definitely not fit for the clinic.

Just lock the bloody thread, the fanboys of both sides have done enough damage.

 

[Race Radio]

Iron shots are an integral part of an Epo program or a blood doping program. This is why people wonder about it. There is no discussion if the shot was not Iron, the discussion was why he took it.

You are talking about a correlation (Iron, EPO, Elite athletes) that was not discovered for 10 years after the 1989 Giro.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/108/6/1390

It appears some are desperate to paint Greg as a doper with no evidence simply because he questioned the myth.

 

[ChrisE]

Did GL continue to take iron injections for the remainder of his career, or was this a one time thing?

 

[buckwheat]

Did GL continue to take iron injections for the remainder of his career, or was this a one time thing?

Hey, I thought I'd find you here.....

 

[MacRoadie]

I wonder if you realize how silly this post is?

The shot was taken, like all iron shots, in the buttocks. EPO shots are taken in the stomach or arm. The desperation of the groupies to try to slime anyone that questions their hero is impressive.

I think the bigger question is where the shots came from: was it the School Book Depositiry or the grassy knoll, or both?

 

[Kender]

I wonder if you realize how silly this post is?

The shot was taken, like all iron shots, in the buttocks. EPO shots are taken in the stomach or arm. The desperation of the groupies to try to slime anyone that questions their hero is impressive.

i never said he doped. i never said he didnt dope. i never said he was shot with epo or not either. i have no opinion on whether he doped or not, i wasn't watching cycling when he was racing. i'm just saying the doc could have put anything in the injection

 

[red_flanders]

i never said he doped. i never said he didnt dope. i never said he was shot with epo or not either. i have no opinion on whether he doped or not, i wasn't watching cycling when he was racing. i'm just saying the doc could have put anything in the injection

You don't know anything about it, but you're willing to put forth theories on a message board about what could have happened. Interesting.

 

[Kender]

You don't know anything about it, but you're willing to put forth theories on a message board about what could have happened. Interesting.

it's not a theory it's an observation. a theory would have outlined what may have been in the injections other than iron supliments and explained how these would have effected performance. I merely observed that GL was told he was given iron supliments and so that's what was reported. i never said he doped and i never said he didn't. that would be the domain of a theory

 

[Polish]

GL most likely believes he did his remarkable comback on a coupel of iron shots, but only the doc will ever know for certain if that's all it contained

I agree with you Kender - that Greg most likely believes it was Iron.
I mean c'mon, in all probability it WAS Iron lol.

That said, and I am no expert in Body Lanquage - but Greg sure did start to squirm when he fielded that question from the audience about the Iron Shot. I do not think he likes to talk about it...

And just for your info, Greg was riding for ADR at that time because his contract with PDM was canceled due to his injury. PDM was at the forefront of doping at that time. Probably started EPO injections on team members 89-90ish.

Another part of the "Greg Myth" is that he was glad to be off PDM.
Not true, as this youtube audio describes. In fact, Greg seemed disappointed that PDM let him go.
This audio clip also explains how Greg did not "tell the WHOLE Truth" to ADR.
Greg is a shrewd negotiator that is for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgRpP_Sitk0
.
.
.

 

[flicker]

I do not see why Greg would dope he is to good to dope.

 

[Kender]

I do not see why Greg would dope he is to good to dope.

like Eddy Merckx?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I agree with you Kender - that Greg most likely believes it was Iron.
I mean c'mon, in all probability it WAS Iron lol.

That said, and I am no expert in Body Lanquage - but Greg sure did start to squirm when he fielded that question from the audience about the Iron Shot. I do not think he likes to talk about it...

And just for your info, Greg was riding for ADR at that time because his contract with PDM was canceled due to his injury. PDM was at the forefront of doping at that time. Probably started EPO injections on team members 89-90ish.

Another part of the "Greg Myth" is that he was glad to be off PDM.
Not true, as this youtube audio describes. In fact, Greg seemed disappointed that PDM let him go.
This audio clip also explains how Greg did not "tell the WHOLE Truth" to ADR.
Greg is a shrewd negotiator that is for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgRpP_Sitk0
.
.
.

You are wrong by a year.

In the interview you posted Greg refers to his team of 1987 - which was Toshiba-Look, he did not join PDM until 88 and ADR in 89.

 

[Race Radio]

You are wrong by a year.

In the interview you posted Greg refers to his team of 1987 - which was Toshiba-Look, he did not join PDM until 88 and ADR in 89.

Facts have always been a challenge for Polish.

 

[Polish]

You are wrong by a year.

In the interview you posted Greg refers to his team of 1987 - which was Toshiba-Look, he did not join PDM until 88 and ADR in 89.

Facts have always been a challenge for Polish.

Guys, this is a 2007 interview where Greg is giving an account of his job search after his injury. Greg's comments speak for themselves. His facts, not mine...

I have never heard this account until yesterday. What do you guys think of Greg's unnecessary removal of his appendix to mislead the "the only team who would take him"? And then to make the comment that "I didn't lie, giggle giggle, but I just did not tell them the absolute truth".

I find that incredible. Maybe I am just naive in regards to negotiating.
Or maybe I am just a troll.

But c'mon, that is like a rider telling us about the iron shots in the keester giggle giggle,
but neglecting to mention the EPO shots in the tummy.
.
.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgRpP_Sitk0
.

 

[Race Radio]

random backtracking
.

What does this have to do with the reasons why he left PDM? You incorrectly (intentionally?) claimed that this tape showed a different reason, which is clearly not the case. You even put this claim in bold.

this trolling gets old after a while

 

[red_flanders]

it's not a theory it's an observation. a theory would have outlined what may have been in the injections other than iron supliments and explained how these would have effected performance. I merely observed that GL was told he was given iron supliments and so that's what was reported. i never said he doped and i never said he didn't. that would be the domain of a theory

You're sort of right, because a theory would involve at least some observed facts, and your "observation" lacks this.

I'd say it's most accurately "baseless speculation". But feel free to put it out there. The shots could also have been laced with Getafix's magic potion.