Lemond - Trek lawsuit

[flicker]

bout it bout it

greg needs attention. he won 3 and Lance won 7.
Pure jelousey on Gregs' part.
Greg needs to man up and face the fact.
TREK is in the bike business to sell bikes. They will sell bikes.
Enhancement by Lance if it is true is not the issue.
If Greg cares about cycling he should accept a settlement from TREK.
I hope afterwords Greg sponsers cyclingsport instead of his present course of tearing it up. U23 team, bike safety, maybe send bikes to RWANDA or whatever country needs them for something useful. Design bikes or e vehicles. Please Greg.

 

[Race Radio]

I think I would start with the $5M that was generated for Lemond from the deal. If Trek did not do a reasonable job of promoting the brand then the brand should have generated more than $5M. The brand is now worthless and generates zero dollars. It would take significant resources to restart production, distribution, and marketing of a new Lemond brand. The damage done by Armstrong's smear campaign may make that a practical impossibility. So you could take the what the brand may have generated in the future and discount it back to the present. This could easily be $5 - 10M.

Lemond is claiming that the smear campaign affected his other ventures. No idea what the damages to value of those businesses are, but it is probably a small fraction of the $5M generated by his bike brand.

If Trek wants to make the case disappear then offering a reasonable estimate of what Lemond thinks he has lost would be a starting point. Add an additional sum to make the offer attractive enough that Lemond will let the issue die. In Lemond's case, that additional sum may have to be fairly substantial compared to the damages.

Add in the $1,000,000 in legal expenses Greg has already incurred and the payout should be well over $10 million.

 

[blackcat]

greg needs attention. he won 3 and Lance won 7.
Pure jelousey on Gregs' part.
Greg needs to man up and face the fact.
TREK is in the bike business to sell bikes. They will sell bikes.
Enhancement by Lance if it is true is not the issue.
If Greg cares about cycling he should accept a settlement from TREK.
I hope afterwords Greg sponsers cyclingsport instead of his present course of tearing it up. U23 team, bike safety, maybe send bikes to RWANDA or whatever country needs them for something useful. Design bikes or e vehicles. Please Greg.

might like to rectify the spelling when you get that GED Lance.

 

[Race Radio]

greg needs attention. he won 3 and Lance won 7.
Pure jelousey on Gregs' part.
Greg needs to man up and face the fact.
TREK is in the bike business to sell bikes. They will sell bikes.
Enhancement by Lance if it is true is not the issue.
If Greg cares about cycling he should accept a settlement from TREK.
I hope afterwords Greg sponsers cyclingsport instead of his present course of tearing it up. U23 team, bike safety, maybe send bikes to RWANDA or whatever country needs them for something useful. Design bikes or e vehicles. Please Greg.

How is not standing around and "taking it" while Trek lets your brand die and Armstrong hires a PR firm to slime your reputation "Pure Jealousy"? It is good to see that Greg is not a wimp that just lies there and allows Trek/Armstrong to screw him.

It is clear who is jealous here, Armstrong hates it that Greg is the last clean winner of the Tour De France.

 

[blackcat]

How is not standing around and "taking it" while Trek lets your brand die and Armstrong hires a PR firm to slime your reputation "Pure Jealousy"? It is good to see that Greg is not a wimp that just lies that and allows Trek/Armstrong to screw him.

It is clear who is jealous here, Armstrong hates it that Greg is the last clean winner of the Tour De France.

but now one pelota is working, Prance is busy trying to overtake Shawn Kemp in children from different mothers.

 

[fatandfast]

Add in the $1,000,000 in legal expenses Greg has already incurred and the payout should be well over $10 million.

Are your calculations from a 3rd world country? A million..? are you kidding me! If Greg walks with 10 his legal team will take 2.5 minimum.

 

[Race Radio]

Are your calculations from a 3rd world country? A million..? are you kidding me! If Greg walks with 10 his legal team will take 2.5 minimum.

My figure is based on a number that Greg gave in a recent interview. He said that he has spent over $1,000,000. This is not a class action suit.

 

[BroDeal]

Are your calculations from a 3rd world country? A million..? are you kidding me! If Greg walks with 10 his legal team will take 2.5 minimum.

It appears Lemond is paying his legal expenses out of pocket. The lawyers won't get a cut. His new legal team is sure to cost him though.

 

[HoustonHammer]

I think I would start with the $5M that was generated for Lemond from the deal. If Trek did not do a reasonable job of promoting the brand then the brand should have generated more than $5M. The brand is now worthless and generates zero dollars. It would take significant resources to restart production, distribution, and marketing of a new Lemond brand. The damage done by Armstrong's smear campaign may make that a practical impossibility. So you could take the what the brand may have generated in the future and discount it back to the present. This could easily be $5 - 10M.

Lemond is claiming that the smear campaign affected his other ventures. No idea what the damages to value of those businesses are, but it is probably a small fraction of the $5M generated by his bike brand.

If Trek wants to make the case disappear then offering a reasonable estimate of what Lemond thinks he has lost would be a starting point. Add an additional sum to make the offer attractive enough that Lemond will let the issue die. In Lemond's case, that additional sum may have to be fairly substantial compared to the damages.

But you have to look at the Lemond/Trek agreement. Trek licensed the Lemond brand and agreed to design, build, market and sell bikes under that brand. The agreement set a royalty fee to Lemond of $350K per year, or a fraction of net revenue from Lemond product sales by Trek (a variable percentage between 2 and 3% of net sales), whichever was greater. There were only two years left on the agreement when Trek alleged breach and terminated the agreement. What I don't know is the revenue Trek was actually doing on Lemond products in the years leading up to '08, which, multiplied by 3% and then doubled, would give you a ballpark number for where Lemond might be able to start his damage claims. Interestingly, I don't think his lawsuit, or at least the version I read, made any claims for damages outside of the Trek relationship. Like RR said, his legal and court fees would go on top of the actual damages. Maybe one of our attorneys can comment on whether he might be eligible to get punitive damages as well.

Interestingly, his negotiating leverage doesn't appear to be really based on his damages, but rather on the damages that Trek might sustain if the trial got ugly. In other words, what Trek in theory stands to lose in bad publicity might be a lot more than what Greg could get out of a trial judgment. I think that's why Trek is saying in their lawsuit that this case boils down to a sophisticated shakedown on Greg's part.

I'm not saying the amount of settlement might not be $10MM or more, I just can't get to that number based on the values I have seen in print.

 

[HoustonHammer]

It appears Lemond is paying his legal expenses out of pocket. The lawyers won't get a cut. His new legal team is sure to cost him though.

I would definitely agree with that. These aren't ambulance chasers Greg has working for him. These are high quality corporate lawyers who get paid win or lose. They will be pricey, but they won't be in for a share of the winnings.

 

[guilder]

Add in the $1,000,000 in legal expenses Greg has already incurred and the payout should be well over $10 million.

..

A doorbell ring and a flaming brown paper bag on Greg's front stoop is the closest he'll get to a settlement.

..

 

[350Watts]

But you have to look at the Lemond/Trek agreement. Trek licensed the Lemond brand and agreed to design, build, market and sell bikes under that brand. The agreement set a royalty fee to Lemond of $350K per year, or a fraction of net revenue from Lemond product sales by Trek (a variable percentage between 2 and 3% of net sales), whichever was greater. There were only two years left on the agreement when Trek alleged breach and terminated the agreement. What I don't know is the revenue Trek was actually doing on Lemond products in the years leading up to '08, which, multiplied by 3% and then doubled, would give you a ballpark number for where Lemond might be able to start his damage claims. Interestingly, I don't think his lawsuit, or at least the version I read, made any claims for damages outside of the Trek relationship. Like RR said, his legal and court fees would go on top of the actual damages. Maybe one of our attorneys can comment on whether he might be eligible to get punitive damages as well.

Interestingly, his negotiating leverage doesn't appear to be really based on his damages, but rather on the damages that Trek might sustain if the trial got ugly. In other words, what Trek in theory stands to lose in bad publicity might be a lot more than what Greg could get out of a trial judgment. I think that's why Trek is saying in their lawsuit that this case boils down to a sophisticated shakedown on Greg's part.

I'm not saying the amount of settlement might not be $10MM or more, I just can't get to that number based on the values I have seen in print.

I think that his sales topped out at $15 million.

 

[Kennf1]

I would definitely agree with that. These aren't ambulance chasers Greg has working for him. These are high quality corporate lawyers who get paid win or lose. They will be pricey, but they won't be in for a share of the winnings.

A contingency fee does not equal ambulance chaser. Many high-dollar commercial disputes are done on a contingency fee, probably the most notorious being the Texaco-Penzoil case in Texas (billion dollar case).

But as people have already said, Lemond's lawyers are apparently handling this on an hourly fee basis. Since the basis of the claim is breach of contract, not tort, Lemond can claim his attorneys' fees as part of the recovery. As Trek can, if they are successful.

 

[flicker]

Hi

Thanks for the update on true percentages of Gregs suit. Thanks also for the compliments(Gandi,Lance) by the forumites.
Greg deserves a payout if indeed he was burned by TREK. I beleive him he was most likely burned.
However in his most recent past building resorts in Montana(I believe that some of the American west should be preserved in a traditional economy i.e. ranching/farming as compared to aRich Mans paradise.)
Also if Greg has time to sue I hope that he and his wife have time spent with their at risk son who really needs their attention.
Furthermore on the bike Greg beat a hellalotta dopers. You are right the Tour is full of enhanced winners. I beleive Greg was clean but only he knows.

 

[Kennf1]

I think that his sales topped out at $15 million.

I think that's right, and it occurred in 2001, before the ****storm. Of course that can cut both ways. Lemond says that's when Trek began to undermine the brand. Trek says that's when Greg's comments hurt his own brand.

The majority of the Lemond sales were in the U.S. I don't have access to the full spreadsheets, but according to Lemond's brief in opposition to Trek's motion, in 2004, Trek sold $2.7 million of non-Lemond bikes in France. Sales of Lemond bikes were $0.

Here's a funny quote from the brief: "Trek's CEO, John Burke, admitted at his deposition that he 'probably' could have sold more Lemond bikes in France by himself than the entire Trek organization did."

 

[flicker]

Poor French sales

Could be that LeMond is a Scottish surname. Could be that the French are afraid that LeMond could attack Hinault, Fignon, Thevenet, Anquenteil or the Tour for sporting fraud.
Le Mond has the right to attack those riders and the Tour history also.
Go slug it out with the frogs also Greg. Don't stop with Lance and Trek.
The French also have a history.

 

[Race Radio]

..

A doorbell ring and a flaming brown paper bag on Greg's front stoop is the closest he'll get to a settlement.

..

Trek's Lawyer disagrees with you.....as do most rational people.

 

[HoustonHammer]

A contingency fee does not equal ambulance chaser. Many high-dollar commercial disputes are done on a contingency fee, probably the most notorious being the Texaco-Penzoil case in Texas (billion dollar case).

But as people have already said, Lemond's lawyers are apparently handling this on an hourly fee basis. Since the basis of the claim is breach of contract, not tort, Lemond can claim his attorneys' fees as part of the recovery. As Trek can, if they are successful.

OK. Fair enough. I didn't know the Texaco deal was done on contingency. Wow. That one was huge.

Question for you: can Greg get any punitive damages if he wins at trial?

Based on the $15MM start point, and figuring that best efforts might grow sales at 5% per year, if sales had continued to grow from 2001 until the end of the contract in 2010 (that's a huge if), then Greg's royalties would have totaled $5.2MM over that timeframe. From that potential, you'd have to subtract what he did in fact receive in royalties. Then you'd have a decent bogey for where he might start. Does anybody know what Lemond bike sales were in 2007 and 2008?

 

[filipo]

That is off topic of the off topic, she doesn't look like a man. She looks like the oldest waitress at Hooters.
Edit: should have said "looks and talks"

Oh lord. Nailed it.

 

[Anonymous]

..

A doorbell ring and a flaming brown paper bag on Greg's front stoop is the closest he'll get to a settlement.

..

No ...realy?

 

[Boeing]

Kristen refusing to answer dope questions under oath is a red flag to this judge. He is basically saying settle or you are screwed Trek and the so called Tarnishing of your brand name will really begin in trial

 

[Boeing]

I think Greg is so competitive he just won't let LA and Team Trek get over on him. A blessing and a curse for the guy.

I don't think Greg suggesting in 2001 that Lance's relation with Ferrari was questionable was any sort of resentment. He just didnt back down from the question and wallow like a coward to the empire. For that he is screwed

 

[Kennf1]

You know, I saw the CN story about Specialized possible replacing Trek as Astana's supplier next year, so I went onto the Trek website. You can still order a special Contador paint job on a Madone, as well as an Astana and Livestong paint job. I wonder if when Lance and Alberto were sniping at each other after the Tour, Trek was thinking "oh no, not again."

 

[Anonymous]

..

A doorbell ring and a flaming brown paper bag on Greg's front stoop is the closest he'll get to a settlement.

..

Just in case nobody has told you today, you are a moron.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Just in case nobody has told you today, you are a moron.

I was tempted to respond in a similar way, but it seemed redundant.