Lemond/Trek new thread

[Race Radio]

Kirsten Arstrong doing her best to fit this thread's profile:
http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2009/treklemond-watch

Moral: Blogging causes amnesia.

It appears this got lost and it should be highlighted.

Kristen's depo was one of the more pathetic displays of selective amnesia I have ever seen. Add in the aggressive posturing by Armstrong's attorney Tim Herman and most ration people would come to the conclusion they have a lot to hide.

 

[scribe]

Funny that one of the Emails that Trek produced was a supposed complaint from a "Customer" this "Customer" used his personal email "lemondsucks@yahoo.com".

Does anybody really believe average Joe is using "Lemondsucks@yahoo.com" as their email?

I thought that was funny too. Someone in that legal team definitely has a strange view of presentation.

 

[scribe]

I just want to add, if you think you are having problems with your contract, the last thing you should do is try and get out of it if you think the other party is harming you. So Greg's best option was to stay in the contract and go after Trek. Those that question why he didn't get out early are just plain foolish. Scribe, I am talking to you.

Greg is a smart cookie. Good luck to him.

That is definitely the angle he is playing. Good luck to him is right.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I thought that was funny too. Someone in that legal team definitely has a strange view of presentation.

I thought that was pretty funny so I had to go check:
lancedoped@hotmail.com- available
lancedoped@live.com- available
lancesucks@live.com- available
lancesucks@hotmail.com- not available
So hurry folks they are going fast.

 

[Hugh Januss]

That is definitely the angle he is playing. Good luck to him is right.

I really hope someone is paying you for this scribe, 'cause you are really going above and beyond.........."the little *** that could".

 

[Kennf1]

That is definitely the angle he is playing. Good luck to him is right.

Yeah, he's playing that contractual right angle. The crafty devil.

 

[L29205]

Does anybody really believe average Joe is using "Lemondsucks@yahoo.com" as their email?

As a service provider Yahoo has to be able provide past user-names even if they don't keep the emails. I would speculate that someone had a lemondsucks account. Could it be an average Joe, could it be a LA supporter, could it be LeMond himself? From the standpoint of the case it does not mean much, this is not a CSI/NCIS case that some techno geek tries to do the (near) impossible of tracking down a user using a fake account.

 

[badboyberty]

Funny that one of the Emails that Trek produced was a supposed complaint from a "Customer" this "Customer" used his personal email "lemondsucks@yahoo.com".

Does anybody really believe average Joe is using "Lemondsucks@yahoo.com" as their email?

It's not that hard to start a novel email address, and it's a good way to protect valuable email accounts from ending up on a spammer's list. I've had up to five email addresses at once. Just never thought of putting my point of view about bicycles in one (my regular personnel email address does describe what style of food I like the most).

Oh well, off to Gmail to grab an email address which clarifies what I think about electric bikes...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Damn - I go out for one evening and leave you kids alone........

A couple of points that have been brought up.

I personally think Armstrong's family and ex wife are off limits - this is a Cycling forum not a Church, IMO.
However as Kirstin is a witness to some alleged incidences - in particular the 'restaurant incident' - then she is obliged by law to give a deposition.
I do not see why her being, Wife, ex-wife or Mother should preclude her from her duty.

On the Trek emails: if a Trek 'customer' had a genuine compliant about any product, for their complaint or observation to be taken seriously surely they would use their own recognized email? If this is being used by Trek to show customer dissatisfaction then they must have a poor case.

 

[buckwheat]

Point is, it is anything but hiding.

Point is, you don't have one.

The main point is that a corporate bully has finally run into someone who has the cojones to stand up and the resources that they cannot be made to back down.

Lance is a pos and everyone who doesn't belong to the cult of personality knows it. Trek had their time, but it's about to come to an end because they tied their fortunes to a guy who is wholly corrupt.

Good Grief!

Both LeMond and Strongarm are illustrating how they came to prominence in the cycling world. LeMond by having a huge talent and not giving up, and LA by doing whatever is necessary to win.

In the end, crime will not pay.

 

[Polish]

Vikings vs Packers

Well, they fit me and the Treks never have--I have a super long torso.

Never ridden anything to this day that handled descents like that LeMond. Broke 55 mph several times descending in the Alps and Jura, and was comfortable doing it.

Red, that "LeMond" WAS a Trek for crying out loud. Do you think Greg had anything to do with the bike?

Trek R&D it, designed it, engineered it, manufactured it, put the 'LeMond" decals on it, marketed it, warranted it, and now rue the day they ever ever entered into a business relationship with Greg.
Rue the day big time.

You were descending the Alps on a TREK lol. A Trek with a longer top-tube and "LeMond" decals on it. Jeez, just get a longer stem or a bar with a longer reach

 

[Anonymous]

It is a good assumption that Trek could have bought Greg out of his contract, but Trek chose instead to not only to kill his brand but also slime his name. That is why they are in the position they are in now. If they had handled this with class I do no think any of us would be talking about this right now.

We usually fall on the same side of things these days but I need to disagree on the part that if Trek would have handled this with class we would not be talking about this right now.

First it would depend on the perception of “class”. If they would have just tried to buy him out I doubt Greg would have gone for that. This is personal to Greg right? If I was in his position I would not have taken the money or any “class” Trek offered. Greg feels like he has been wronged. He had his opinions on the LA / Ferrari connection. He has paid a huge price for that opinion and Greg feels it was a witch hunt against him.

That makes me think Greg would take this to court no matter the cost. He wants to be vindicated for what has happened. He wants someone to make a judgment in his favor. I am not saying that he does not want money but the justice / judgment is his goal.

 

[flicker]

Hi its me again.
I am all for LeMond getting his fair share. I brought up all that rubbish about LeMond
because I feel every time Greg makes a statement it is focused on you know who. Those of you who hate HIM need to write a letter to someone who cares.
Until HIM turns a positive I will be rooting for HIM even if HIM shows himself to be a jerk 90 percent of the time. I think bringing HIMs' wife into the picture was uncalled for. Anyone with half a brain knows she will cover for HIM. Thats her bread and butter baby. Survival is human nature.
I do not know what will bring closure to the battle between Greg and HIM.
As far as biological passport and the charts, they can be manipulated and interpreted in many different ways. I feel the biological passport can be used for riders to monitor their own levels and stay within the levels that pass and will not raise a red flag to WADA/UCI. I don't buy David Walsh.
I hope Greg gets his money and he quits distracting HIM and the Tour winner from there preparation, training and racing.

 

[workingclasshero]

Hi its me again.
I am all for LeMond getting his fair share. I brought up all that rubbish about LeMond
because I feel every time Greg makes a statement it is focused on you know who. Those of you who hate HIM need to write a letter to someone who cares.
Until HIM turns a positive I will be rooting for HIM even if HIM shows himself to be a jerk 90 percent of the time. I think bringing HIMs' wife into the picture was uncalled for. Anyone with half a brain knows she will cover for HIM. Thats her bread and butter baby. Survival is human nature.
I do not know what will bring closure to the battle between Greg and HIM.
As far as biological passport and the charts, they can be manipulated and interpreted in many different ways. I feel the biological passport can be used for riders to monitor their own levels and stay within the levels that pass and will not raise a red flag to WADA/UCI. I don't buy David Walsh.
I hope Greg gets his money and he quits distracting HIM and the Tour winner from there preparation, training and racing.

wtf are you trying to say there?

 

[flicker]

What I am saying is if Greg LeMond has a hard-on for Lance Armstrong he should deal with it privately. I see cycling as entertainment and I think Lance is the starin cycling at present If it came down to it I don't know whom of the 2 is a better cyclist and who was or is cheating. I just want to see some good racing.
I am sorry everybody but I feel Greg is a distraction from the sport. Leave the dope testing to the authorities.

 

[Digger]

What I am saying is if Greg LeMond has a hard-on for Lance Armstrong he should deal with it privately. I see cycling as entertainment and I think Lance is the starin cycling at present If it came down to it I don't know whom of the 2 is a better cyclist and who was or is cheating. I just want to see some good racing.
I am sorry everybody but I feel Greg is a distraction from the sport. Leave the dope testing to the authorities.

Yes you're right. Let's just bury our heads in the sand. This is called mythology.

The only thing you're sorry about is that he questions your hero. And for the record Lemond, you may want to watch the original clip I posted on the start of the thread. And then come back to me and tell me it's all abotu Lance with Lemond. He speaks about the doping problem in general, the problem he readily admits was there before Lance. The problem that David Walsh and Damien Ressiot readily accept was there already.

 

[Digger]

Hi its me again.
I am all for LeMond getting his fair share. I brought up all that rubbish about LeMond
because I feel every time Greg makes a statement it is focused on you know who. Those of you who hate HIM need to write a letter to someone who cares.
Until HIM turns a positive I will be rooting for HIM even if HIM shows himself to be a jerk 90 percent of the time. I think bringing HIMs' wife into the picture was uncalled for. Anyone with half a brain knows she will cover for HIM. Thats her bread and butter baby. Survival is human nature.
I do not know what will bring closure to the battle between Greg and HIM.
As far as biological passport and the charts, they can be manipulated and interpreted in many different ways. I feel the biological passport can be used for riders to monitor their own levels and stay within the levels that pass and will not raise a red flag to WADA/UCI. I don't buy David Walsh.
I hope Greg gets his money and he quits distracting HIM and the Tour winner from there preparation, training and racing.

Yeah, it can be hard to read the truth when it hurts.

 

[Hugh Januss]

What I am saying is if Greg LeMond has a hard-on for Lance Armstrong he should deal with it privately. I see cycling as entertainment and I think Lance is the starin cycling at present If it came down to it I don't know whom of the 2 is a better cyclist and who was or is cheating. I just want to see some good racing.
I am sorry everybody but I feel Greg is a distraction from the sport. Leave the dope testing to the authorities.

It is important to remember that at the point in time when Trek first began pressuring LeMond the extent of his commentary on Armstrong was that in light of the information coming to the surface regarding Dr. Ferrari, Greg was "disapointed" that LA was continuing to work with him.
One would think that an innocent person would not be so bothered by that.
I do think however that all that has transpired since has certainly steeled LeMond's resolve to see this thing through, and by that I mean the PR attacks by Armstrong and Trek.

 

[pmcg76]

It is important to remember that at the point in time when Trek first began pressuring LeMond the extent of his commentary on Armstrong was that in light of the information coming to the surface regarding Dr. Ferrari, Greg was "disapointed" that LA was continuing to work with him.
One would think that an innocent person would not be so bothered by that.
I do think however that all that has transpired since has certainly steeled LeMond's resolve to see this thing through, and by that I mean the PR attacks by Armstrong and Trek.

I have stayed out of these threads and dont plan to enter the debate on the finer details. My knowledge of this goes as far as LeMond making the remark that he was "disappointed" with Lances connection with Ferrari back in 00/01 Having been aware of Dr.Ferrari and his reputation since 1994 and his comments on EPO, that is what I felt at the time and I was definitely not anti-Lance.

Lets say it was revelaed tomorrow that Usain Bolt was connected with one of the BALCO affair coaches. I think the general feeling would be one of disappointment. If Michael Johnson said he was disappointed by the connection, would anyone be criticising him. Dont think so.

We also look to have at why the Ferrari link was not public in the first place, if Lance did not think it would look back, why was the connection not public knowledge like his connection with Chris Carmichael. If Lance knew it looked bad, why would he then take offence to LeMond saying he was disappointed. Thats kinda hypocritical to me anyway as LeMond was just stating the obvious.

From that point on, all I know is LeMond was forced by whoever to offer a grovelling apology to Lance and has been on a rant ever since.

So my take on this whole affair is that LeMond expressed an honest opinion on Ferrari that was shared by most people, Lance took it badly and forced Trek to make LeMond make an apology that LeMond felt humiliated by. Instead of just lying down, LeMond joined in the dirty games and has been fighting a negative rearguard PR action ever since.

I dont know the finer details since then so not getting involved in all the arguments.

 

[red_flanders]

It's all even more fun if you consider the timing of Armstrong's "hour record attempt" (has he done that yet, I can't remember hearing about it??) and his association with Ferrari to "help him break the record".

He was outed about Ferrari and made up the hour record story to cover it. No, no guilt there whatsoever.

The grand announcement of the hour-record attempt here. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Hugh Januss]

It's all even more fun if you consider the timing of Armstrong's "hour record attempt" (has he done that yet, I can't remember hearing about it??) and his association with Ferrari to "help him break the record".

He was outed about Ferrari and made up the hour record story to cover it. No, no guilt there whatsoever.

The grand announcement of the hour-record attempt here. Draw your own conclusions.

I had forgotten all about that announcement. I am sure with the increased interest in the hour that Lance's attempt is imminent.

 

[schopenhauer]

What I am saying is if Greg LeMond has a hard-on for Lance Armstrong he should deal with it privately. I see cycling as entertainment and I think Lance is the starin cycling at present If it came down to it I don't know whom of the 2 is a better cyclist and who was or is cheating. I just want to see some good racing.
I am sorry everybody but I feel Greg is a distraction from the sport. Leave the dope testing to the authorities.

Lance may only be the 'starin' attraction in your little bro-mance. He's a d----bag in everyone else's

 

[flicker]

Like I said Lance has behaved badly. More than anything he has been a jerk.
When I read his book Its not about the bike, his relationships with women have been disrespectful.
In the book about 2003 Tour he was visiting Ferrari. Its all there its clear he visited Dr. Ferrari.
I feel like the side shots that Le equipe, David Walsh, Greg LeMond do nothing to stop nefarious activity.
A suspension after a positive does.
Therefore if one feels compelled to enter the battle,write letters.
I don't think snivelling to the Clinic will change anything.
The end purpose of Greg LeMond is good and truthful.
For me its tough to watch Greg struggle and it really does hurt pro cycling. Gregs' struggle is not nice and it is not enertaining.
I would be just as interested to watch amateur cycling in the US if it was of high competitve value and available to watch on TV and I did not have to pay cable to watch it. I think if Greg gets his way he will kill the sport.

 

[Bristol Park Cycling]

I have stayed out of these threads and dont plan to enter the debate on the finer details. My knowledge of this goes as far as LeMond making the remark that he was "disappointed" with Lances connection with Ferrari back in 00/01 Having been aware of Dr.Ferrari and his reputation since 1994 and his comments on EPO, that is what I felt at the time and I was definitely not anti-Lance.

Lets say it was revelaed tomorrow that Usain Bolt was connected with one of the BALCO affair coaches. I think the general feeling would be one of disappointment. If Michael Johnson said he was disappointed by the connection, would anyone be criticising him. Dont think so.

We also look to have at why the Ferrari link was not public in the first place, if Lance did not think it would look back, why was the connection not public knowledge like his connection with Chris Carmichael. If Lance knew it looked bad, why would he then take offence to LeMond saying he was disappointed. Thats kinda hypocritical to me anyway as LeMond was just stating the obvious.

From that point on, all I know is LeMond was forced by whoever to offer a grovelling apology to Lance and has been on a rant ever since.

So my take on this whole affair is that LeMond expressed an honest opinion on Ferrari that was shared by most people, Lance took it badly and forced Trek to make LeMond make an apology that LeMond felt humiliated by. Instead of just lying down, LeMond joined in the dirty games and has been fighting a negative rearguard PR action ever since.

I dont know the finer details since then so not getting involved in all the arguments.

Two issues arise. Firstly, if Trek had not told LeMond to muzzle it after that comment, then there certainly would have been damage to Trek's finanical interests. That is obvious. So it was the correct course of action.

We also have to question LeMond's judgment. EPO was a set part of the GC training programme for most of the 1990s, and certainly during the late 1990s - there was no test for it, so nobody could compete at the highest level of the peloton without it. There is no other two ways about it. You either chose not to be successful or did what you had to do to stay competitive. Like having a nuclear weapon. So for Lemond to suddenly attack LA for this would have been taken as greatest offense by Armstrong, who obviously thought LeMond understood cycling. What planet was LeMond living on? Armstrong must have been hugely offended, and rightly so. To suddenly attack him must have been extraordinary to Armstrong.

When I see LeMond speaking he seems to be an intelligent guy, but he claims that he had no idea why he was suddenly getting dropped all the time in the early 1990s, and later claims to have no idea that the GC contenders were routinely doping in the late 1990s. I think everyone can agree this is very odd. I don't know what the answer to that is, but it is utterly bizarre to me.

 

[Kennf1]

Like I said Lance has behaved badly. More than anything he has been a jerk.
When I read his book Its not about the bike, his relationships with women have been disrespectful.
In the book about 2003 Tour he was visiting Ferrari. Its all there its clear he visited Dr. Ferrari.
I feel like the side shots that Le equipe, David Walsh, Greg LeMond do nothing to stop nefarious activity.
A suspension after a positive does.
Therefore if one feels compelled to enter the battle,write letters.
I don't think snivelling to the Clinic will change anything.
The end purpose of Greg LeMond is good and truthful.
For me its tough to watch Greg struggle and it really does hurt pro cycling. Gregs' struggle is not nice and it is not enertaining.
I would be just as interested to watch amateur cycling in the US if it was of high competitve value and available to watch on TV and I did not have to pay cable to watch it. I think if Greg gets his way he will kill the sport.

Why do you.
Talk in short choppy.
Sentences that.
Have no coherent message and are almost never on topic?