LeMond's Pre-TDF prediction: LA will not start or pull out!

[kurtinsc]

For someone's who's 'never tested positive' Texarse has done his bit to bring down a sport with the smoke from his fires.

I disagree cycling fans are happy to have their heads in the sand; it's not mere entertainment and bigger, stronger, faster doesn't mean better in cycling.

Cycling won't die - it's too beautiful and stronger than the personalities that presently represent and administer it.

Science has been both cycling's enemy and friend, and the way forward is a vigorous testing regime with real and innovative penalties.

A change of culture is needed too - to do this, the omerta must be broken.

Maybe cycling fans are different. It's mostly european, and I'm in the US, so I really can't comment.

All I can point to is how baseball has handled doping as opposed to football and basketball. Baseball has been the most agressive toward catching dopers... and has tarnished their reputation the most because of it. Football is pretty open about steroid use... and nobody seems to care... and they have 10 times the problem baseball does. They just don't publish it.

Let me ask you this:

Is there an example of a sport that had a doping problem, pursued it strongly and openly... and no longer has a problem today and is viewed as "clean", while is more financially successful then they were before their problem?

I can't think of one, but I'll admit I'm limited in the sports I follow.

 

[scribe]

Because Lemond:

Isn't the subject of a federal investigation
Never tested positive for EPO
Never tested positive for anything, for that matter
Hasn't been accused of doping by a former team mate
Has never been accused by ANYONE in the sport, of doping, either during his career, or in the ensuing two decades.
Never tried passing off a back-dated TUE
Has never been accusued of, or admitted to using the "services" of a well-known doping doctor
Never had one single shred of evidence, rumor, or innuendo directed towards him regarding doping...

And never bedded more hookers than Al Gore could ever hope to!

 

[Cobblestones]

I was thinking more US cycling and the UCI. I truly believe that LA hates professional cycling and blames it for his cancer. I reckon he probably believes he has paid a lot for the sport and it owed him, and if he is going to pay again he might try to damage it as much as he possibly can.

Like the kid who takes his ball home so no-one else can play.

ok.

Bringing US cycling would be hard on us here, but not such a big deal in the big picture. The UCI would be a big fish. But in the end it would be a good thing.

 

[MacRoadie]

It's plenty interesting for those running the show.

Yes, it is. And let me be the first to thank you for it.

 

[Cobblestones]

I do find it amusing that you seem to place the blame on Lance for this. If your view is to be taken at face value, he was "pressured to dope" the same as any other doper. Why not on Indurain (who everyone felt the pressure to dope to catch up to)? Why not Merckx? Why not Fausto Coppi? They all doped too.

Because of Bassons, Simeoni etc.

 

[kurtinsc]

Who would LA and the hog bring down? Bottle? Big George? Kloden? Big yawn.

The only interesting revelation could come from the Astana year. But I doubt that he and Bertie shared notes.

I would think Bruyneel has the dirt on Contador, or enough dirt to make him extremely uncomfortable. I could be wrong, but my guess is that Johan didn't excuse Contador from the team program in 2007. He might have had the pull to do his own thing after winning the Tour... but he was on the team bus in 2007 just like all of Lance's helpers from 1999-2005. Hard to see him having a choice.

 

[JayZee]

Strange, the link on the Cyclingnews.com home page to Greg's blog is no longer working. It just goes back to the home page. The link at the start of this thread still works though.

 

[Dunedain]

which would be strange since LA just came from France.

Right on cobblestones

 

[Big Doopie]

Yes, I too would like to read as to how LA peaks, how his program really looks like, however I think you and I have completely different views of what might be the program. I would really like to see LA's doping program, what he used when and how much and how to beat the tests, but I think this will never come out

oh, +1.

i agree that having lemond write about peaking is a little pointless. in his day peaking meant perhaps a handful of watts, rest (because you weren't going to get refills during the tour and you had already raced 70-80 days because you weren't having blood pulled from you during the season) and making sure his weight stayed down (he didn't have the advantage of new undetectable fat-burning drugs that can turn you from a linebacker to a sinewy skeleton in the space of a month). lemond peaks have absolutely nothing to do with current "peaking" and "preparation" where the visible and performance changes are off the charts.

 

[MacRoadie]

I would think Bruyneel has the dirt on Contador, or enough dirt to make him extremely uncomfortable. I could be wrong, but my guess is that Johan didn't excuse Contador from the team program in 2007. He might have had the pull to do his own thing after winning the Tour... but he was on the team bus in 2007 just like all of Lance's helpers from 1999-2005. Hard to see him having a choice.

Since the French Astana investigation is based on alleged DNA evidence, and "Hey, I wanna cut a deal. I have the dirt on this skinny Spaniard" isn't going to matter one whit to US federal investigators, I really don't see what leverage Bruyneel has against Contador under the present set of circumstances.

 

[python]

Maybe cycling fans are different. It's mostly european, and I'm in the US, so I really can't comment.

All I can point to is how baseball has handled doping as opposed to football and basketball. Baseball has been the most agressive toward catching dopers... and has tarnished their reputation the most because of it. Football is pretty open about steroid use... and nobody seems to care... and they have 10 times the problem baseball does. They just don't publish it.

Let me ask you this:

Is there an example of a sport that had a doping problem, pursued it strongly and openly... and no longer has a problem today and is viewed as "clean", while is more financially successful then they were before their problem?

I can't think of one, but I'll admit I'm limited in the sports I follow.

look at the bolded part. i have commented on this before and it's not a condescending view -- your comments are very american.

financial bottom line when discussing doping is not, NOT, NOT the ultimate driver for most europeans.

 

[crispy]

Because Lemond:
Never had one single shred of evidence, rumor, or innuendo directed towards him regarding doping...

And of course that makes it ok for him to direct innuendo towards others? Because that's all he's done. If he's got good evidence of doping by Armstrong or anyone else then come out with it. Hell, if he's got circumstantial evidence of doping and wants to write an article about that I'd read it with great interest but throwing something like that in at the end of an article about peaking still seems a little wacked to me.

 

[Barrus]

And of course that makes it ok for him to direct innuendo towards others? Because that's all he's done. If he's got good evidence of doping by Armstrong or anyone else then come out with it. Hell, if he's got circumstantial evidence of doping and wants to write an article about that I'd read it with great interest but throwing something like that in at the end of an article about peaking still seems a little wacked to me.

If you look at the manner in which the article is phrased and constructed it is clear that a question was asked of him. This can also be seen by the fact that Lemond was not the writer of the article. But I guess most conviently neglect this part

 

[El Oso]

Because Lemond:

Isn't the subject of a federal investigation
Never tested positive for EPONever tested positive for anything, for that matter
Hasn't been accused of doping by a former team mate
Has never been accused by ANYONE in the sport, of doping, either during his career, or in the ensuing two decades.
Never tried passing off a back-dated TUE
Has never been accusued of, or admitted to using the "services" of a well-known doping doctor
Never had one single shred of evidence, rumor, or innuendo directed towards him regarding doping...

You forgot the "at least 10 people" who would testify that Lemond took EPO

 

[MacRoadie]

And of course that makes it ok for him to direct innuendo towards others? Because that's all he's done. If he's got good evidence of doping by Armstrong or anyone else then come out with it. Hell, if he's got circumstantial evidence of doping and wants to write an article about that I'd read it with great interest but throwing something like that in at the end of an article about peaking still seems a little wacked to me.

Riiiiiight. All innuendo towards LA.

 

[MacRoadie]

You forgot the "at least 10 people" who would testify that Lemond took EPO

Exactly. The ten people who decided they'd rather not have the hundred grand...

 

[crispy]

If you look at the manner in which the article is phrased and constructed it is clear that a question was asked of him. This can also be seen by the fact that Lemond was not the writer of the article. But I guess most conviently neglect this part

Point taken. So maybe it's just some cyclingnews editor who's wacked

 

[kurtinsc]

look at the bolded part. i have commented on this before and it's not a condescending view -- your comments are very american.

financial bottom line when discussing doping is not, NOT, NOT the ultimate driver for most europeans.

I understand that they are very american... I live in the US.

Personally I don't care about the financial side at all. But I don't care about the doping side at all. I just want to watch a race and enjoy the sport. The doping stuff to me is... noise. Irritating noise I wish would go away.

I'm okay if it goes away because everyone is clean. I'm also okay if it goes away because the sport just decides to cover it up. The problem I face is I don't think the former is even possible... because I've never seen it happen in any sport. So I lean toward the latter... simply because I just want to watch guys race their bikes without being bombarded by people talking about EPO, HGH, micro-transfusions, or whatever new techniques are being used.

Most fans in the US will say they are against PED's. But their actual ACTIONS seem to indicate they favor more doped up sports where it's kept quiet (the NFL) over sports making an effort to clean up the present and past where it gets a lot of press (MLB). Nobody SAYS they like doping... but everyone seems to act like they're happiest if they just don't hear about it.

The financial success isn't what fans care about... it's the MEASURE of what the fans care about.

 

[laura.weislo]

Strange, the link on the Cyclingnews.com home page to Greg's blog is no longer working. It just goes back to the home page. The link at the start of this thread still works though.

We had a little glitch, the link on the homepage works now.

 

[Anonymous]

So gregs read the wsj article then.

My money is on Lance being in a crash involving several of his teammates about 2 kilometres from the french border and being stitched up in the team car.

I refer you to something he said earlier in the week "I may need to play the TEAM game.." we all know what that means. The same "team game" he played in ToC

stitched up is not a pun by the way.

 

[les95035]

Yes, I too would like to read as to how LA peaks, how his program really looks like, however I think you and I have completely different views of what might be the program. I would really like to see LA's doping program, what he used when and how much and how to beat the tests, but I think this will never come out

I think Frei pretty well explained how to beat the tests, and lance really didn't beat the '99 TdF tests, did he, except on technicalities

 

[velosopher54]

I understand that they are very american... I live in the US.

Personally I don't care about the financial side at all. But I don't care about the doping side at all. I just want to watch a race and enjoy the sport. The doping stuff to me is... noise. Irritating noise I wish would go away.

I'm okay if it goes away because everyone is clean. I'm also okay if it goes away because the sport just decides to cover it up. The problem I face is I don't think the former is even possible... because I've never seen it happen in any sport. So I lean toward the latter... simply because I just want to watch guys race their bikes without being bombarded by people talking about EPO, HGH, micro-transfusions, or whatever new techniques are being used.

Most fans in the US will say they are against PED's. But their actual ACTIONS seem to indicate they favor more doped up sports where it's kept quiet (the NFL) over sports making an effort to clean up the present and past where it gets a lot of press (MLB). Nobody SAYS they like doping... but everyone seems to act like they're happiest if they just don't hear about it.

The financial success isn't what fans care about... it's the MEASURE of what the fans care about.

Fellow American here. If doping is just 'noise' to you, why do you even visit this forum, I mean it's ALL about doping.

I don't like cheating in any sport, whether it's pros or little league. I too want to watch guys race but I want to know it's real, not something from a bottle or an I.V. bag. True I'd rather not hear about doping but stopping the omerta is more important than what I personally like, and I'm hoping one day there will no longer be speculation about who's clean and who's not. I want to know the odds are in favor of the clean guys, I want to see a rider crack on a hard climb the way it should be. These guys going up a 9% grade for an hour gaining speed at the end is just a fantasy, it isn't real, I want the real drama of racing, like when LeMond raced.

 

[Cobblestones]

So gregs read the wsj article then.

My money is on Lance being in a crash involving several of his teammates about 2 kilometres from the french border and being stitched up in the team car.

I refer you to something he said earlier in the week "I may need to play the TEAM game.." we all know what that means. The same "team game" he played in ToC

stitched up is not a pun by the way.

But that team car would still go into France? Or maybe he's driving off with Bruyneel never to be seen again?

 

[Anonymous]

But that team car would still go into France? Or maybe he's driving off with Bruyneel never to be seen again?

Because nothing says "my thoughts are more legitimate" than denying you care about what you are about to post on, over and over and over.

 

[flicker]

I will wager major money that Lance finishes in Paris better than 5th. To heck with Gregs' wet dream.