Let the Armstrong defense begin...

[autologous]

As it turns out, Armstrong was right to be careful because the documents apparently show he did not officially have a stake during that period. It would have been perjury if he said for sure that he did when he knew he did not.

which documents? Got a link?

 

[JimmyHoffa]

The denying ownership makes this case more like the mob.

The east coast bosses might not have had their names on the casino's, but it was pretty clear who called the shots and where the skimmed the profits were sent.

Maybe the paperwork was not completed until 2007.

Seems likely Lance had constructive ownership and management of the team.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Exactly. In the panic to win the daily PR war, Team Lance has now given investigators something they didn't have previously, which is a public statement that at a much earlier time than the paperwork had already been completed, that Lance was part of the inner circle.

When do you just say "meh" for 3 years with respect to completing formal paperwork related to ownership of a multi-million dollar enterprise? When for practical purposes you are already privy to the benefits of ownership within a gold ole boys' club.

Stapleton and the boys just gave it up unintentionally. Not looking so smart now.

The denying ownership makes this case more like the mob.

The east coast bosses might not have had their names on the casino's, but it was pretty clear who called the shots and where the skimmed the profits were sent.

Maybe the paperwork was not completed until 2007.

Seems likely Lance had constructive ownership and management of the team.

 

[Anonymous]

But it's not about that. This is about legal responsibility. If Armstrong did not own the team or deal with USPS then maybe the law does not cover him. And if the people who did own the team did not know about the doping, they can't be liable either. I think that's what this is about.

If that is the case, why did they use an address owned by him in Austin for Tailwind. Obfuscation in full effect BPC. Ignoreland again for you.

Toodles psycho!

 

[Off the front]

which documents? Got a link?

If you read the thread I'm presuming this is why he felt able to make this statement today. If the documents do show he owned a stake during the said period then he is obviously in trouble. Why would he say that if it can be easily disproved?

 

[Off the front]

If that is the case, why did they use an address owned by him in Austin for Tailwind. Obfuscation in full effect.

Maybe one of his business associates on other matters also uses this business address.

 

[JimmyHoffa]

"The 25-count indictment includes a sweeping list of conspiracy charges dating back to the 1960s. Specifically, it claimed that the local La Cosa Nostra previously had hidden ownership in three Nevada casinos -- the Frontier and Aladdin in Las Vegas and the Edgewater in Laughlin."

http://www.forensic-intelligence.org/mob/40062.htm

Name does not have to be on the paperwork for responsibility to exist.

 

[Off the front]

"The 25-count indictment includes a sweeping list of conspiracy charges dating back to the 1960s. Specifically, it claimed that the local La Cosa Nostra previously had hidden ownership in three Nevada casinos -- the Frontier and Aladdin in Las Vegas and the Edgewater in Laughlin."

http://www.forensic-intelligence.org/mob/40062.htm

Name does not have to be on the paperwork for responsibility to exist.

But what would be the motivation for hiding ownership at that time? There was no profit gain in the company itself - it was simply used as a mechanism to run the team, which is different to the mob doing money laundering.

 

[Cobblestones]

Maybe one of his business associates on other matters also uses this business address.

Would that be Johnson, Weisel or Stapleton?

 

[Off the front]

Exactly. In the panic to win the daily PR war, Team Lance has now given investigators something they didn't have previously, which is a public statement that at a much earlier time than the paperwork had already been completed, that Lance was part of the inner circle.

You really think the investigators weren't going to bother to check the SCA transcripts?

This is obviously something Armstrong's people have been preparing for weeks after going back and checking it.

It's amazing to think this guy is currently doing a grand tour.

 

[Krebs cycle]

I've read that Novitsky is a "hard nosed investigator" so I hardly think that LA's comments witch hunts is likely to endear himself to Novitsky. One can only imagine what Novitsky thinks.... frothing at the mouth "ME?? engage in witch hunts??? I will decide the direction of this investigation Lance Armstrong, not YOU".

Also, regarding the alleged positive test in 2001. If this is true, then it should be possible to go directly to the source and trace the results back to the laboratory. If there is a cover up all the way to the lab technician who falsified the records to show a negative result in the database for example, one would expect a paper trail to exist somewhere. If that allegation can be proven to be true, then it means Lance lied under oath in the 2005 SCA case and he will end up in the same place as Marion Jones.

 

[Dunedain]

Most people would never be in his shoes, because most people aren't cheating, conniving bullies neck deep in potentially criminal activity. So yeah, no big surprise that he's trying to stonewall. Woo-hoo.

Wish I could agree - but can't. Most of the last decade's best cyclists cheated. All sorts of people cheat - on their taxes, in golf, in school, etc. Nonetheless, he should own up fully to all he has known and done. But I would be careful on this forum or in life to wish so heavily for someone else to fall.

 

[David Suro]

Wow. A great deal of evidence and a lot of guessing on the forum.

It seems that Lance has his work cut out if he is to avoid prosecution in the coming months via Novitsky.

I am neither a fanboy nor a hater. I am a lover of cycing and racing.

There comes a time for all fans and all haters to be objective and hope for the best of everyone. I hope that time is now.

 

[Race Radio]

Wow. A great deal of evidence and a lot of guessing on the forum.

It seems that Lance has his work cut out if he is to avoid prosecution in the coming months via Novitsky.

I am neither a fanboy nor a hater. I am a lover of cycing and racing.

There comes a time for all fans and all haters to be objective and hope for the best of everyone. I hope that time is now.

Everyone? Even the criminals?

I hope the best for Novitsky

 

[David Suro]

To RaceRadio:

Your comments are fair.

I hope the criminals are prosecuted and everyone else gets to ride on happily.

Saying I hope the best for everyone is still an accurate statement. Sometimes it is best for a criminal if he is punished fairly. Of course, "fair" is a very ambiguous term.

I suppose I am just on the side of objective justice.

 

[lucybears]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...nt-contradiction-on-tailwind-ownership_129107

 

[powerste]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...nt-contradiction-on-tailwind-ownership_129107

That article is flanked by two huge Lance/Shack ads, and VN's color scheme on that page is Red/Yellow/Black.

Made me LOL when I first clicked on the link.

I'm just sayin' . . .

 

[flicker]

Have any investigations such as this ever been leveled against an American sports organization before?

 

[SpeedWay]

But I would be careful on this forum or in life to wish so heavily for someone else to fall.

You clearly don't understand this forum, its agenda, and the number of posts just short of infinity that are cheering for "someone else to fall".

 

[chambers]

For Lance to state that he was not the owner of the team is a smart move. Novitsky has said that he is going after the "big fish", which means the team owners and the policy makers for the team.

For Lance to say that he was an employee of Tailwind Sports rather than an employee of the US Postal Service is also a smart move. Since US tax dollars fund the postal service, the extent of the crime is more profound. Defrauding the US government and taxpayers is different than being employed by an entity that was defrauding the above named parties.

In the interview, Lance seemed to be trying to make himself a "small fish".

Some of the riders who are likely to be called to testify have been ostracized by the sport to the extent that they have nothing to lose (Hamilton and Landis). Other riders who are still competing have some reason to protect their future interests by maintaining their innocence and the innocence of the sport (Zabriskie and Hincapie).

The probable lack of physical evidence will make the job of the prosecution difficult. In order to achieve a guilty verdict without ample physical evidence there has to be overwhelming consistancy between the depositions of each individual called to testify.

Lance's comments in the interview do make it appear that he is trying to distance himself from the allogations and minimize any role he played in the decision making of the team. They do not sound like comments a person with nothing to hide might make.

Why do so many people think that the United States Postal Service is funded by tax dollars? It is not. The only tax money the US postal service gets is to cover military members mail that contains their votes from overseas duty stations and mail service for the blind. The US postal service is paid for by the shipping charges on packages and the stamps for regular postage. The last time the US postal service received tax money for general operations was 1983 although the law allows them to receive tax money if they need it.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Why do so many people think that the United States Postal Service is funded by tax dollars? It is not. The only tax money the US postal service gets is to cover military members mail that contains their votes from overseas duty stations and mail service for the blind. The US postal service is paid for by the shipping charges on packages and the stamps for regular postage. The last time the US postal service received tax money for general operations was 1983 although the law allows them to receive tax money if they need it.

Thank you Dr. Tax Nerd.

Tax money is irrelevant. Tax, shmax.

USPS is part of the US Federal Govt. Undebatable.

The terms to focus on are "fraud", and "conspiracy to commit" it.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Have any investigations such as this ever been leveled against an American sports organization before?

Yes.

Baseball.

Anti-trust in several sports, globally, as well.

What is it with the idea that somehow sports are immune to scrutiny. It reminds me of the Catholic church and abuse cases. Fr. Paddy McQuaid and his transgressions.... Let's nor examine the past.

 

[R.0.t.O]

Whoops, the Radioshack bus driver is a bit off-message - on Eurosport's Planet Armstrong showed the cameras round while regularly referring to Lance as the boss, including showing us the concealed lounge room Lance has at the back so he doesn't have to sit with the other riders. Read the memo you idiot, he's just another one of the riders dagnamit.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Have any investigations such as this ever been leveled against an American sports organization before?

There's actually a push underway to investigate the antitrust implications of the BCS, which makes USA Cycling look like a gnat.

 

[Race Radio]

Love this article from 2005

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...tour/stories/072505dnspolancebar.70a9d8a.html

"Lance is a part-owner, and he's perfectly suited to advise our riders on how to prepare and compete."