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Levi's blood values in 2005 pretty suspicious

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132.9 beats 132.8, the winner is Tyler Hamilton

Alpe d'Huez said:
...........

As I recall TH's off numbers were 129 when he got his warning, so to have Levi come in higher than that says something.
.....
.

Your memory fails you, Tyler Hamilton at least once got as close as you can get : 132.9. With reticulocytes at 0.22.
Plus Hct at 49.7

Man, having a dead twin is such a curse.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/hamilton_appeal
 
Jun 18, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
Levi was pretty average even when he did dope! That's the funny thing about these accusations.

?

3 grand tour podiums is hardly average... That's the same as Cadel, after all!

Thomas Frei is average. Leipheimer is hardly average. There are a lot of worse guys than he who are doping.
 
May 26, 2010
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editedbymod said:
Very similar to the Hamilton case.

He received several "please explain" blood vaules type letter before being pinged.

maybe he didn't know that the explanation was "oh! do you guys need a new blood testing machine here have a $100,00" :rolleyes:
 
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auscyclefan94 said:
Levi was pretty average even when he did dope! That's the funny thing about these accusations.

And look at the mediocrity of LA when he didn't dope. Like this year.
This years' TdF was more like the real thing. Do good at one stage and be penalized at the next. Close combat. And Lance still sucks. Great stuff. Not the cortisone-induced testicular cancer on the rebound, doped-to-his-gills-courtesy-of-Michele-Ferrari-winning Lance. More the moribund Lance "dropping a minute per ITT" we'd come to know and love from way back.
Shi{, I love this forum.

If a carpenter out there is willing to make a cross for me I'd be more than willing to nail the carcass of Lance to it any day. Jeezus, what a turd.
 
May 13, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Respect to HMH for revealing this important information. Equally telling yes on the UCI's actions. Almost acting like a guide to help keep riders from testing positive. As I recall TH's off numbers were 129 when he got his warning, so to have Levi come in higher than that says something.

+1

All the stuff we've known and suspected about protected riders and collusion between UCI, riders and teams is confirmed and published in another piece of written testimony.

Life must be getting hard for the deniers. First they disputed the message, then they attacked the messenger (Landis), the last straw (??) is now to attack the way the message is presented (as a book). Funny and sad.

Anyway, Pound knew, Bordry knows and they've said so and been attacked and ridiculed. How can anyone argue at this point that doping controls should be administered by the UCI? Seriously??
 
May 12, 2009
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On one hand this definitely looks bad for Levi, and I can increasingly see dominoes beginning to fall.

OTOH, I'm not sure this increases my respect for Holzer. It's verrry hard to believe he couldn't have either known or had strong suspicions about all this. Looks to me more like an attempt to throw others to the wolves.
 
Feb 21, 2010
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Kennf1 said:
Wow. I'd never seen those numbers before.

hmmm... this sticks out to me:

The device used to measure reticulocytes, known as a Sysmex, became available as a portable machine in 2001 (other machines, such as the ADVIA and Coulter, are also used but for monitoring purposes only, and a rider cannot be declared 'unfit to start' if either is used). But it was only in late 2003 when the Australian authors modified the parameters to make them useful as a tool for anti-doping.

So, Lance donates the cash to the UCI for the piece of equipment that essentially ensnared Tyler?
 
Apr 9, 2009
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Colm.Murphy said:
hmmm... this sticks out to me:

The device used to measure reticulocytes, known as a Sysmex, became available as a portable machine in 2001 (other machines, such as the ADVIA and Coulter, are also used but for monitoring purposes only, and a rider cannot be declared 'unfit to start' if either is used). But it was only in late 2003 when the Australian authors modified the parameters to make them useful as a tool for anti-doping.

So, Lance donates the cash to the UCI for the piece of equipment that essentially ensnared Tyler?

I noticed that too. But wasn't Tyler busted with detection of homoguous blood cells, not because of his reticulyte count or off-score?
 
Preferred riders get a letter from the UCI.
Top-preferred riders get one accompanied by a voluntary donation form, personal data pre-filled.

Novitsky needs to be given a quota. There must be a line up lycra guys in front of his office, all waving their fully filled out immunity forms in hand.

He should say "I'm going to grant just 5 more riders immunity. Applications in 3-fold on my desk, before the end of next week. Picking candidates will be to my discretion."
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Barrus said:
Interpol doesn't do anything like that, they are an agency that is mainly focused on ensuring cooperation between different justice systems, not doing any investigating or prosecuting themselves

Which is what I'd expect. Somewhere on one of the threads I thought there was an indication of their involvement with Novitsky's investigation, the basis being transport between countries. Hard to keep track now after things being quiet for a couple of weeks.

Scope could be far-reaching with Interpol involved
The New York Times has reported that Federal authorities are issuing grand jury subpoenas to witnesses in the case involving Floyd Landis's claims of systematic doping and knowledge of doping practices leveled at seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong and several other cyclists and key figures in the sport.

The paper reports that several individuals briefed on the case revealed the information, but did so on the condition of anonymity so they would not be known to have discussed the federal investigation.

The grand jury subpoenas are seen as the next big step in moving forward with the investigation, and demonstrate just how seriously Landis's allegations are being taken.

Landis originally communicated with the US Anti Doping Agency (USADA), USA Cycling and the UCI, and provided details of what he described as systematic doping practices in the US Postal Service Team where he was a teammate of Armstrong. He admitted doping for much of his career after years of denial, and also pointed the finger at former teammates and management, and extended the allegations to his former Phonak team.

Most of the public statements released by the accused categorically deny Landis's statements, and believe that their accuser has no credibility. However, the Garmin-Transitions team, where former US Postal riders David Zabriskie and Matthew White are employed, have only said that they encourage that the truth be told, whatever the truth may be.

The claims were immediately dismissed by the UCI, but the USADA and WADA took the allegations more seriously, and it has since snowballed into to a federal investigation led by Food and Drug Administration (FDA) special agent Jeff Novitzky. He previously worked on the BALCO case, which led to the imprisonment of track and field sprinter Marion Jones.

Late last month the World Anti-Doping Agency's director general David Howman said that he believed the Landis allegations have weight and will eventually yield results.

“I think we are very optimistic that this inquiry will be a fruitful one,” admitted Howman to the New York Times. “But this is going to take some time because we’re not really talking about a simple antidoping case here. Remember the BALCO case, how long that took? Well, we could be still talking about this one in 2016.”

Howman said last week that the accusations have now led to an inquiry which involves Interpol, and has led to co-operation with European anti-doping organisations.

“This investigation has been going on for many weeks and I think it is a significant inquiry,” he told AFP. “And it's one that might go on for many more weeks because it essentially started with a US inquiry and is spreading,” he explained.




Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4...tion-seen-as-next-big-step.aspx#ixzz0vg7J07hV
 

editedbymod

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You guys still forget the lynchpin in all of this....

Tommy D.

The Hog got him on the program and it made him sick. Very sick. His ex went on record telling the USADA what the Hog did to her boy. The power of Hog and Tommy dumps her for Steph.

Tommy like Dave Z sort refuge in Vaughters. That's where they go. So they can ride, earn a crust and not be pressured to dope. JV deserves a medal for this.

Seriously Tommy has a story and knows what the Hog and hanging with LA brings.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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editedbymod said:
You guys still forget the lynchpin in all of this....

Tommy D.

The Hog got him on the program and it made him sick. Very sick. His ex went on record telling the USADA what the Hog did to her boy. The power of Hog and Tommy dumps her for Steph.

Tommy like Dave Z sort refuge in Vaughters. That's where they go. So they can ride, earn a crust and not be pressured to dope. JV deserves a medal for this.

Seriously Tommy has a story and knows what the Hog and hanging with LA brings.

Yup, Tommy will talk. It will be interesting to hear the story of Tommy's blood bag mix up.
 
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jobiwan said:
I have no problem with people telling the truth. It's telling the truth just for self-promotion that I have a problem with.

But you're ok for someone telling a lie for self-promotion? Can you think of anyone who's pretty good at this?
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
Always excuses. Ok, he is trying to make money, but could we talk about the 132.8 off-score value? Is this doping or not?

Yes, it is doping. In a normal person it is 70-100. The UCI sends a warning if it is over 127. Expect many attacks of the messenger but it does not change the number.
 
Moose McKnuckles said:
When he was with the Hog = well above average or podium finisher
When he was elsewhere = above average
+1.

Agree with this. He was well above average (except this year) with the Hog.

Nevertheless being 6th in the Tour is not minor feast. Remember that even if you dope there is not warranty that you will win.
 
Personally I'll take cynical and opportunistic statements meant to boost book sales but which also help clean the sport over cynical and opportunistic statements meant to boost entirely different book sales and which help keep omerta in place.
 
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Tubeless said:
But you're ok for someone telling a lie for self-promotion? Can you think of anyone who's pretty good at this?

Lying is never right. Anyone who has doped should face the music, but it's just convenient that he is suddenly aware of what happened under his watch when the truth will help him make some money. And all of this is about money, it always is.
 
jobiwan said:
Lying is never right. Anyone who has doped should face the music, but it's just convenient that he is suddenly aware of what happened under his watch when the truth will help him make some money. And all of this is about money, it always is.

If it's about money in this case it may be about who dropped the dime first.
If team personel begin to think that they can escape blame by blaming the riders first then the whole thing might come down in a big hurry.
 
jobiwan said:
Lying is never right. Anyone who has doped should face the music, but it's just convenient that he is suddenly aware of what happened under his watch when the truth will help him make some money. And all of this is about money, it always is.
Ok. Hans-Michael Holczer is a very bad, bad boy. And greedy.

Still, there is proof that Levi doped. You want to comment about his off-score?
 
Jul 28, 2010
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Escarabajo said:
Ok. Hans-Michael Holczer is a very bad, bad boy. And greedy.

Still, there is proof that Levi doped. You want to comment about his off-score?

I'm not defending Levi at all. If he's found to have doped, than he should be punished. And I must say I'm not an expert on the technicalities of doping, what is and what isn't doping, etc.

Cycling, and sports in general, would be so much better if people had honor and good morals, but it's about money and being ahead of the competition no matter what the means. Here's hoping things are headed in the right direction.
 
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131313 said:
?

3 grand tour podiums is hardly average... That's the same as Cadel, after all!

Thomas Frei is average. Leipheimer is hardly average. There are a lot of worse guys than he who are doping.
NO, but he looks very average on the climbs. He wasn't brilliant when he was at Rabobank.
Hugh Januss said:
Maybe ACF is finally admitting that Evans is pretty average?

Do you want the same thing that I am going to do to AS to you?