Liège-Bastogne-Liège 2021 (April 25th)

[RedheadDane]

I always enjoy what I learn from CN forums about differences in word-usage outside of my language map: I’ve never heard the things on the bottom of sports shoes called “studs”—the terms here are always “spikes” or “cleats.” Studs makes sense but that term here is used for tires, earrings, and adjectives/nouns associated with testosterone.

In this case I just used the term used in the post I was replying to. But I think "spikes" do sound a little... violent.

 

[Leinster]

Obviously it's true, I heard from the commentators today that LBL had 4500 vertical meters. It's hard to believe that it was so much but cumulated effect of climbs obviously helps GT guys tremendously (even if climbs are short). Still, for a few decades no LBL winner was the best GT guy at that time (some of them were very good but not the best, Schleck was 2nd best in 2009) and now we have recent two LBL winners being the same as recent two GT victors, wow.

GC riders have always done well at LBL. It has as much climbing as a major GT mountain stage, but the climbs are just shorter and more frequent.

The difference is we’re coming off a couple of decades where the main TdF contenders were focused on GTs, and didn’t ride classics generally. Armstrong, Contador, Froome all rarely rode classics except as preparation for other races. Even Indurain had top10s at Liege.

 

[Eeslliw]

So what you mean is that he should let Pogacar overtake him and then followed in his wheel and overtaken him in turn, all this in what? 225 meter?
You see he moved past woods to the right with Pogacar on his wheel, should he then sit up let Pogacar pass him and follow? then he loose, seems very complicated in that short distance at that speed. Maybe i just doesnt understand what you mean? if he moved even further to the right he would be guilty of the same thing as last year, and would be demoted

No he should just stay on the right, and forced Pogacar to go around him (taking longer route). It may be enough to win. I am not denying Pogacar was stronger, but in sprint doesn't always win the fastest/strongest. It's all speculation ofcourse.

On picture below you can see Ala is already moving to the center. He could stay on the right and force Pogacar to go around him (therefore doing more distance). In ideal scenario Pogacar would stay boxed in, but we can't know what would happen.

 

[OlavEH]

So, who is the top riders of the spring 2021? My picks:

1. Tadej Pogacar.
2. Wout van Aert
3. Kasper Asgreen
4. Mathieu van der Poel
5. Primoz Roglic

 

[BlueRoads]

I think he should close Pogacar when they passed Valverde. He went to the middle of the road and left Pogacar in perfect position with no one infront, insted he should stay on the right (where they passed) and forced Pogacar to come around him and lose some momentum. What do you think guys?

I think, although I would have liked an Ala win better, it was only fair to not close the door on Pogacar this time.

 

[Skalman]

No he should just stay on the right, and forced Pogacar to go around him (taking longer route). It may be enough to win. I am not denying Pogacar was stronger, but in sprint doesn't always win the fastest/strongest. It's all speculation ofcourse.

On picture below you can see Ala is already moving to the center. He could stay on the right and force Pogacar to go around him (therefore doing more distance). In ideal scenario Pogacar would stay boxed in, but we can't know what would happen.

Then i understand what you mean but then you can argue that he crossed into Pogacar`s lane and would be subject to another demotion. But yeah i dont think he "messed" up today ,except maybe for the timing of when he started the sprint, he lost a couple of meters there that might have cost him. He was beat by a better guy today, nothing more to it really.

 

[KZD]

Pogacar has shown progression of his breadth
2019 - OutClimbing Valverde and Roglic
2020 - OutTTing Roglic and Dumoulin
2021- Almost OutTTing Ganna and destroying van Aert in hilly terrain and almost catching van der poel and outsprinting JA
these are Merckxian achievements
While we were waiting for Bernal and Evenepoel to showcase their talents, he has already achieved. I see him wininng all GTs and all monuments in the vein of Merckx

He is probably already the best rider in the world but winning all 5 monuments will be almost impossible as I can't see him winning Paris Roubaix due to his light frame and even in De Ronde and MSR won't be easy at all. However the Olympics and World Championships should be within his reach.

 

[Eeslliw]

Then i understand what you mean but then you can argue that he crossed into Pogacar`s lane and would be subject to another demotion. But yeah i dont think he "messed" up today ,except maybe for the timing of when he started the sprint, he lost a couple of meters there that might have cost him. He was beat by a better guy today, nothing more to it really.

No arguing that Pogacar was strong today. I just think Ala could make him work even harder for it. When he moved to the center of the road, he basically opened free space for Pogacar to the finish line.

About possible demotion. He should just kept his line on the right and hold it to the finish (no worries for demostion here). That way Pogacar would have to get around him.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

I always enjoy what I learn from CN forums about differences in word-usage outside of my language map: I’ve never heard the things on the bottom of sports shoes called “studs”—the terms here are always “spikes” or “cleats.” Studs makes sense but that term here is used for tires, earrings, and adjectives/nouns associated with testosterone.

So you've now under-stud!

 

[BlueRoads]

Which races since last years Tour have Roglic and Pogacar entered, and not won? None of them, I mean?

Worlds - Alaphilippe
FW - Hirschi
Strade - van der Poel
PN - Schachmann, but only due to Roglic's crash
Amstel - van Aert, Roglic as helper and crashed
FW- Alaphilippe
Other races? (I don't mean single stages, which might have been given away due to tactical reasons.)

(I do wonder, by the way, would Pogacar have won the WC, if Slovenia had ridden for him instead of Roglic?)

 

[red_flanders]

He is probably already the best rider in the world but winning all 5 monuments will be almost impossible as I can't see him winning Paris Roubaix due to his light frame and even in De Ronde and MSR won't be easy at all. However the Olympics and World Championships should be within his reach.

He has everything he needs to win MSR. Great punchy climber, endurance, and a very fast finish. Not totally sure about his descending skills but no reason to think they’re bad and he obviously can win from an elite group.

I don’t know why he can’t win Roubaix or Flanders except time on the cobbles and interest/love of riding them. Mostly given that one has the power, Flanders is all about positioning and explosive efforts. Roubaix might be the hardest but I wouldn’t rule it out.

 

[Sciatic]

So you've now under-stud!

Ha! True; I’m definitely under-studded as well. At least as far as my cycling performance goes.

 

[Breezy1985]

Well... I'm pretty sure studs up tackling is actually harmful.

Oh I'm not pro the supertuck ban but forgetting about it is not an excuse as suggested

 

[Breezy1985]

because one of those two guys has a whole career of winning small group sprints under his belt and the other attacked seriously. Gaudu had to know he wasn’t going to win that sprint. Four out of five guys aren’t going to win a five up sprint, but the only one who has behaved stupidly is the one who goes in knowing he’s one of the four and does nothing to give himself an alternative route.

He finished 3rd to the world champion and the Tour winner and people on here are saying he or his manager need a brain transplant seriously like. If he attacked and came 5th or worse I bet the same people would still be here p*$$in on FDJ

 

[RedheadDane]

Oh I'm not pro the supertuck ban but forgetting about it is not an excuse as suggested

I just feel like forgetting that you aren't allowed to hurt your competitors after at most 90 minutes of play, with a break, is significantly worse than briefly forgetting that you're not allowed to sit in a certain position.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

He finished 3rd to the world champion and the Tour winner and people on here are saying he or his manager need a brain transplant seriously like. If he attacked and came 5th or worse I bet the same people would still be here p*$$in on FDJ

He entered a finale as one of the five strongest but also the one who could be close to certain that he wouldn’t win in a sprint. He waited for the sprint apart from one half hearted feint. That’s not maximising his chances, it’s minimising them despite his obvious strength.

The other four rode in the way best calculated to win, given their range of abilities and experiences and the information available to them. Valverde, Alaphilippe and Pogacar waited for a sprint. Woods tried to get away. Gaudu did not. What makes it worse is that as the least favoured in the group, there was a reasonable chance that the others would hesitate, trying to sucker the others into chasing.

Much better to try one all in attack and come first or fifth.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

I just feel like forgetting that you aren't allowed to hurt your competitors after at most 90 minutes of play, with a break, is significantly worse than briefly forgetting that you're not allowed to sit in a certain position.

Also, when did this supertuck ban come into effect vs. the studs up tackle ban? The former is rather recent, so I'd like to give the riders just a little bit of leeway for now.

 

[kingjr]

He entered a finale as one of the five strongest but also the one who could be close to certain that he wouldn’t win in a sprint. He waited for the sprint apart from one half hearted feint. That’s not maximising his chances, it’s minimising them despite his obvious strength.

The other four rode in the way best calculated to win, given their range of abilities and experiences and the information available to them. Valverde, Alaphilippe and Pogacar waited for a sprint. Woods tried to get away. Gaudu did not. What makes it worse is that as the least favoured in the group, there was a reasonable chance that the others would hesitate, trying to sucker the others into chasing.

Much better to try one all in attack and come first or fifth.

Gaudu waited too long before he got out of Valverde's slipstream, he sort of slowed down a little whereas the two behind him were taking all their momentum around Valverde.

 

[Koronin]

Also, when did this supertuck ban come into effect vs. the studs up tackle ban? The former is rather recent, so I'd like to give the riders just a little bit of leeway for now.

Riders were informed in the off season that the ban would go into effect on April 1.

 

[ppanther92]

So, who is the top riders of the spring 2021? My picks:

1. Tadej Pogacar.
2. Wout van Aert
3. Kasper Asgreen
4. Mathieu van der Poel
5. Primoz Roglic

1. WvA
2. Pogacar
3. Roglic
4. MvdP
5. Alaphilippe

 

[Hugo Koblet]

So, who is the top riders of the spring 2021? My picks:

1. Tadej Pogacar.
2. Wout van Aert
3. Kasper Asgreen
4. Mathieu van der Poel
5. Primoz Roglic

Yeah, I'd pretty much agree with this. Though I think Alaphilippe deserves the 5th place as much as Roglic. It's hard to rate, though. Are we talking results or performances? Or a combination?

 

[AlfaLum]

He entered a finale as one of the five strongest but also the one who could be close to certain that he wouldn’t win in a sprint. He waited for the sprint apart from one half hearted feint. That’s not maximising his chances, it’s minimising them despite his obvious strength.

The other four rode in the way best calculated to win, given their range of abilities and experiences and the information available to them. Valverde, Alaphilippe and Pogacar waited for a sprint. Woods tried to get away. Gaudu did not. What makes it worse is that as the least favoured in the group, there was a reasonable chance that the others would hesitate, trying to sucker the others into chasing.

Much better to try one all in attack and come first or fifth.

Gaudu's sprint is more than reasonable, it is very unlikely that Alaphilippe and Pogacar would have hesitated and Gaudu is the only one in that Group for which a podium place at this point in his career is still super significant.

Last season, with the exception of the Vuelta, he was still being used as a super domestique in most important races for Pinot. He is still establishing himself as a leader for FDJ, and this 3rd place will help him. The years where he should gamble his podium spot for a very small increase in chances of winning in a monument will come. But they are not there yet.

 

[Krokro]

After WVA, Pogacar the new allrounder GT-winner, classic-winner and obviously fast guy as well. What an anti climax guy, races he's in to win are truly painful to watch... It was fun to see him rob a TDF, but now this becomes to be ridiculous. I don't know why but I struggle to cheer for him.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

1. WvA
2. Pogacar
3. Roglic
4. MvdP
5. Alaphilippe

1. Pog
2. WVA
3. = Alaphilippe, Asgreen, MvdP, Roglic

 

[Bolder]

1. WvA
2. Pogacar
3. Roglic
4. MvdP
5. Alaphilippe

I would put Asgreen in place of Alaphilippe. JA underperformed a little bit, IMO.

I'm not sure I can make a definitive ranking as they all had incredible moments.

Performance of the spring was MvdP in Strade.