Lidl-Trek (no longer Radioshack-Leopard Trek)

[luckyboy]

Calm down the arguments a bit guys, lot of complaints about this thread.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So not being factual is irrelevant. What makes you think that Nissan is not ready to offer MBL a buy out? My point is that none of us here have been at the table here and is highly unlikely that Nissan would have gone forward with the deal if they had not felt they where on solid ground legally. There are several reasons that MBL would play the role of a victim, namely they would have the need to protect their brand. If only publicly so. "Posturing" is the correct term I believe.

We'll see what pans out. I wager nothing will come of it.

No, your position is irrelevant because you haven't offered any facts.
What makes you think Nissan would offer to buy out Mercedes? And why can't Mercedes buy out Nissan? Because you just made it up.

As I asked earlier - what part of honoring contracts are you struggling with?

 

[thehog]

So not being factual is irrelevant. What makes you think that Nissan is not ready to offer MBL a buy out? My point is that none of us here have been at the table here and is highly unlikely that Nissan would have gone forward with the deal if they had not felt they where on solid ground legally. There are several reasons that MBL would play the role of a victim, namely they would have the need to protect their brand. If only publicly so. "Posturing" is the correct term I believe.

We'll see what pans out. I wager nothing will come of it.

Problem being that along without ourselves that neither Mercedes nor Becca have been at the table! So Mercedes are much in the dark as we are! Nissan are not doing a deal with Mercedes but Becca so they don’t care about previous arrangements.

But I'm with you... I mean seriously, Mercedes local small fry Luxembourg franchise should have know better. What were they thinking sponsoring a Luxembourg based cycling team with two of cycling brightest stars form the same country? Did they seriously think they the deal would last as long as the contract stated? I mean surely they knew that "in business" you can get pushed aside, have your contract torn up without warning or consultation to be taken over by the North American arm of a Japanese Company? If they weren’t aware then they don’t deserve to be in business. Period. Move along.

 

[Race Radio]

William what is your wager. That they did not suggest in their press release that they may take the matter further? If so read the press release again and explain to me how I'm wrong.

If they take Becca to court remains to be seen and not what I wrote

I doubt they would take Becca to court but they would likely try to recoup their substantial loss. At the least they gave Leopard a huge amount of Buses, Vans, and cars with the expectation that this investment would be paid back with 3 years of visablity.

Now they are tossed aside after less then a year? Few would be happy with that. Few would write it off as "just business".

 

[BillytheKid]

Problem being that along without ourselves that neither Mercedes nor Becca have been at the table! So Mercedes are much in the dark as we are! Nissan are not doing a deal with Mercedes but Becca so they don’t care about previous arrangements.

But I'm with you... I mean seriously, Mercedes local small fry Luxembourg franchise should have know better. What were they thinking sponsoring a Luxembourg based cycling team with two of cycling brightest stars form the same country? Did they seriously think they the deal would last as long as the contract stated? I mean surely they knew that "in business" you can get pushed aside, have your contract torn up without warning or consultation to be taken over by the North American arm of a Japanese Company? If they weren’t aware then they don’t deserve to be in business. Period. Move along.

Thanks. If your in business for yourself, you know these things happen. I'm facing possibly being pushed out all the time because I am the small fry. Is it upsetting?Yes. Is there anything I can do about it? No, except posture and hope my credibility does not get damaged. I was trying suggest that MBL may be doing the same. If they don't, there local brand is damaged (they have abandoned the Schlecks!) If they are not perceived as being angry or at least "surprised," then they run that risk.

Yes, they have a contract, but may want out. A lease is contract, but if circumstances dictate you have to move, then you may have to break your contract or negotiate your way out of it in the best way possible.

Is any of this fact? No. I am arguing an alternative point of view.

This ESPN article does put Becca at the table:

http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/story/_/id/6962005/radioshack-leopard-trek-deal-intriguing-start

Becca is a Luxembourg real-estate magnate. I find it hard to believe if he where at the table, he could burn MBL with a complete surprise and still do business in that small nation.

 

[Race Radio]

Becca is a Luxembourg real-estate magnate. I find it hard to believe if he where at the table, he could burn MBL with a complete surprise and still do business in that small nation.

.......Because rich people never do anything wrong.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Thanks. If your in business for yourself, you know these things happen. I'm facing possibly being pushed out all the time because I am the small fry. Is it upsetting?Yes. Is there anything I can do about it? No, except posture and hope my credibility does not get damaged. I was trying suggest that MBL may be doing the same. If they don't, there local brand is damaged (they have abandoned the Schlecks!) If they are not perceived as being angry or at least "surprised," then they run that risk.

Yes, they have a contract, but may want out. A lease is contract, but if circumstances dictate you have to move, then you may have to break your contract or negotiate your way out of it in the best way possible.

Is any of this fact? No. I am arguing an alternative point of view.

This ESPN article does put Becca at the table:

http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/story/_/id/6962005/radioshack-leopard-trek-deal-intriguing-start

Becca is a Luxembourg real-estate magnate. I find it hard to believe if he where at the table, he could burn MBL with a complete surprise and still do business in that small nation.

Well the rest of us are arguing with facts -facts like Mercedes (Lux) have a valid contract with Leopard.

The highlighted begs the question - why do you feel the need to argue an alternative viewpoint?

 

[thehog]

Cheers. Nice one. I mean its just like when Cofidis tossed aside Lance when he got sick. He understood it was "just business" and didn't make a big deal of it.

Thanks. If your in business for yourself, you know these things happen. I'm facing possibly being pushed out all the time because I am the small fry. Is it upsetting?Yes. Is there anything I can do about it? No, except posture and hope my credibility does not get damaged. I was trying suggest that MBL may be doing the same. If they don't, there local brand is damaged (they have abandoned the Schlecks!) If they are not perceived as being angry or at least "surprised," then they run that risk.

Yes, they have a contract, but may want out. A lease is contract, but if circumstances dictate you have to move, then you may have to break your contract or negotiate your way out of it in the best way possible.

Is any of this fact? No. I am arguing an alternative point of view.

This ESPN article does put Becca at the table:

http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/story/_/id/6962005/radioshack-leopard-trek-deal-intriguing-start

Becca is a Luxembourg real-estate magnate. I find it hard to believe if he where at the table, he could burn MBL with a complete surprise and still do business in that small nation.

 

[kurtinsc]

Well the rest of us are arguing with facts -facts like Mercedes (Lux) have a valid contract with Leopard.

The highlighted begs the question - why do you feel the need to argue an alternative viewpoint?

I don't have any idea what is in the sponsorship contract, but most long term contracts have various out clauses. Some might have a financial penalties if specific circumstances spelled out in the contract aren't met.

When I was living in an apartment, I had a contract for a year. I could leave early, but if I didn't provide a month's notice I had to pay an extra month of rent. They could also evict me if I damaged the room or didn't pay my rent on time.

Who knows what is spelled out in the contract... but Becca said “We have a contract with Mercedes which can be cancelled at any time under various circumstances.” I really don't find that out of the ordinary, it kind of seems like a non-issue.

 

[Aleajactaest]

Well the rest of us are arguing with facts -facts like Mercedes (Lux) have a valid contract with Leopard.

The highlighted begs the question - why do you feel the need to argue an alternative viewpoint?

Even if they had a contract it's not necessarily certain that this violates that contract. Most contracts have out clauses and depending on the wording, the different constitution of the team may have given LT an option to void the contract. MB Luxembourg may be surprised but we have no idea if they have any legal basis for action.

 

[thehog]

Even if they had a contract it's not necessarily certain that this violates that contract. Most contracts have out clauses and depending on the wording, the different constitution of the team may have given LT an option to void the contract. MB Luxembourg may be surprised but we have no idea if they have any legal basis for action.

All contracts I've dealt with have "out" clauses. It’s fairly standard as often events arise out of ordinary. But every contract I've ever worked on or written has a consultation period and forced negotiation to settle the “out”. No contract would ever state "right to terminate without cause or consultation". Not possible and I don’t think it would even be legal to have such – especially in a highly regulated country like Luxembourg. Most if not al contracts would have a notice period also that is to be sent in writing.

I think Becca has acted foolishly by signing up Nissan because he still hasn't dealt with the Mercedes issue. When they state they're considering their position what they mean is their lawyers are looking over the contracts for financial recourse. It’s coming. It also wouldn’t surprise me if Mercedes have contacted the UCI to understand how the ProTour licences are issued as this will also have bearing on the outcome.

 

[WinterRider]

All contracts I've dealt with have "out" clauses. It’s fairly standard as often events arise out of ordinary. But every contract I've ever worked on or written has a consultation period and forced negotiation to settle the “out”. No contract would ever state "right to terminate without cause or consultation". Not possible and I don’t think it would even be legal to have such – especially in a highly regulated country like Luxembourg. Most if not al contracts would have a notice period also that is to be sent in writing.

I think Becca has acted foolishly by signing up Nissan because he still hasn't dealt with the Mercedes issue. When they state they're considering their position what they mean is their lawyers are looking over the contracts for financial recourse. It’s coming. It also wouldn’t surprise me if Mercedes have contacted the UCI to understand how the ProTour licences are issued as this will also have bearing on the outcome.

You know Nissan's sponsorship probably doesn't start until January. Likely there are still nearly 4 months to provide notice (if such is required). Since no one here has read the contract, I don't see why everyone is jumping to the conclusion that Becca is in breach.

Yes, MBL is obviously upset, but that does not mean the contract is, or is going to be, breached.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Mercedes should sponsor Riis' team for next season.

"Don't get mad. Get even."

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Even if they had a contract it's not necessarily certain that this violates that contract. Most contracts have out clauses and depending on the wording, the different constitution of the team may have given LT an option to void the contract. MB Luxembourg may be surprised but we have no idea if they have any legal basis for action.

Of course all contracts will have an 'out' clause - however I would doubt that a provision was in place to allow a rival to step in until the end of the contact in 2013.

 

[Benotti69]

Cheers. Nice one. I mean its just like when Cofidis tossed aside Lance when he got sick. He understood it was "just business" and didn't make a big deal of it.

Cofidis didn't toss aside Armstrong, but it sounds like a good story and is all part of the myth of the miracle coming back from cancer, rejected by his team and having to build a new team bla blah blah...

 

[Beech Mtn]

The Inner Ring blog reports that this isn't the first time Becca has been involved in merging sports teams.

 

[thehog]

You know Nissan's sponsorship probably doesn't start until January. Likely there are still nearly 4 months to provide notice (if such is required). Since no one here has read the contract, I don't see why everyone is jumping to the conclusion that Becca is in breach.

Yes, MBL is obviously upset, but that does not mean the contract is, or is going to be, breached.

Got it. So when my employer boots me from my job I can read about it in a press statement of the new guy being hired? Nice. I like that form of notification. Keeps things simple. Why conduct business transactions "in camera" let’s just do it through the press. Cleaner that way. Never heard so much twaddle in all my life! I cannot believe that some of you are justifying this mode of business and writing it off as “we don’t know the exact nature of the contract”. You wouldn’t accept it in your personal circumstances so I can’t see how you accept it at a sponsorship level.

I do agree that we should see how this place itself out.... I do remember Roche being forced to wear the Peugeot name on his cycling knicks when he signed for Carrera under a similar set of circumstances.

 

[Christian]

Mercedes should sponsor Riis' team for next season.

"Don't get mad. Get even."

Lol we just had a whole discussion about that a few pages back. Seriously. Read the the thread man, it's the least you can do ... it's only 134 pages.

Meh Mercedes Lux will be fine. Becca will be fine either way. It's Martin Pedersen, Bruno Pires and Thomas Rohregger I'm more worried about

 

[kurtinsc]

Got it. So when my employer boots me from my job I can read about it in a press statement of the new guy being hired? Nice. I like that form of notification. Keeps things simple. Why conduct business transactions "in camera" let’s just do it through the press. Cleaner that way. Never heard so much twaddle in all my life! I cannot believe that some of you are justifying this mode of business and writing it off as “we don’t know the exact nature of the contract”. You wouldn’t accept it in your personal circumstances so I can’t see how you accept it at a sponsorship level.

I do agree that we should see how this place itself out.... I do remember Roche being forced to wear the Peugeot name on his cycling knicks when he signed for Carrera under a similar set of circumstances.

Strangely enough, the only time I was fired from a job in my life was sort of done that way.

I was a teenager who had coached a summer swim team the previous year. The following year I found out I wasn't coaching when I talked to the guy who was going to be coaching the team the following year. I wasn't under contract of course, just a verbal "see you next year" from the neighborhood association after the prior season.

And while I was annoyed... I accepted it. How could I not? Similarly, if the contract wasn't breeched, there's nothing the sponsor can do but accept it. It really does come down to the contract.

And as for the personal side, I've seen people get fired by having their access card to enter the building canceled. I've seen very PUBLIC firings. I've seen situations where an e-mail went out showing a new organization for the company was sent out missing an officer prior to that officer being told he was out.

Yeah, many times people don't want to burn bridges and handle that sort of thing in a quiet, respectful manner. But sometimes they don't... and there's really nothing the other side can do in most cases.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Lol we just had a whole discussion about that a few pages back. Seriously. Read the the thread man, it's the least you can do ... it's only 134 pages.

I lost interest when the thread became an endless argument about which poster knew what and which poster was wrong. BillyTheTroll has not helped matters.

 

[Boeing]

posted by my brutha from anotha mutha - http://handlebarmustache.blogspot.com/2011/09/cycling-wiki-leaks-radio-shack-nissan.html?m=1

Cycling Wiki Leaks: RadioShack Nissan Trek Memo to FRANDY
We received this memo via our Euro spy/fan. This is the same the man that sent us the LEOPARD TREK Hotel memo so we feel he is legit.*



Dear Frank and Andy,


I am very pleased that you will both be riding on my new team. I wanted to address a few things right away so we get off on the right foot. The goal of this team is to WIN races, we view 2nd and 3rd place as the 1st and 2nd losers. Here are a few new team rules that will go into place at the end of the 2011 season.

1. Ride together all you want in the off season, because next year you will NEVER be in the same race. I will not have either one of you looking around for the other one. Frank you should study up on Italy and Spain. Andy focus on France! During Grand tours, you are not allowed to call, Skype, or send pictures to each other.

2. We will be repossessing all but one of your bikes for the first 3 months of the off season. The only one we are leaving you is a Time Trial bike. You might remember that bike is the one with the funny looking bars that makes the "swoosh swoosh" noise when you ride it. LEARN to ride it and get faster on it! You look like two monkeys humping a futball when you ride a TT. We will fix this!

3. Andy this one is directed at you: We will have a bonfire at our training camp; bring every picture/note/piece of Best Friend stuff you have from your relationship with Alberto. To be honest, he thinks you're a fool and he makes fun of you every chance he gets. He actually referred to you as "mi perra" over race radio. (Google it - it's not kind.)

4. If you are going to do your "traditional" off season dolphin swims, make sure there is no one there to take pictures. Swimming with a porpous is completely emaskulating. Grow 2 pairs and swim with sharks if you need to get closer to nature. Don't say a word about Boonen swimming with the dolphins; he pulls more girls than most rock stars and wins cobbled classic races.

5. Scarves...lose them, ALL of them!

6. Andy this is another one for you - if you win a stage you are never allowed to "post up." It looks as though you are having a seizure and we can't use the pictures for any PR purposes.

7. We will have an in-depth class for both of you about social media and the topic of WINNING! I never want to see another Tweet like "We are ____ (fill in with words like happy, satisfied, content) to get 2nd and 3rd at ____ (fill in race/stage Amstel, the TDF, etc.)

8. Only one of you can ride in the Luxembourg championship races. You can decide between the two of you, but trying to figure out which one of you has those jerseys gives me a headache. Plus, there are only like 5 riders from your country so it doesn't matter much anyway; it's not like you're Belgian!

9. Yes, you will be riding SRAM again. Get over it; our mechanics know WTF they are doing and you will be fine.


10.Please try to pay attention when training. No music, texting, or no handed riding. I don't want to see pictures of your skinny bodies all bloody and damaged. You two look like you escaped from a prison camp half the off season.


PS: Find out when and where Johhny Hoogerland trains and ride with him!




Kindest regards,
JB

*We can not promise this is an actual memo from Johan, but it could/should be.

 

[Christian]

The Inner Ring blog reports that this isn't the first time Becca has been involved in merging sports teams.

Lol this is seriously hilarious. Almost as hilarious as when they suggested Kim Jong Il was financing LEOPARD TREK.

I don't think anyone realizes how ridiculously small and unimportant all of those teams were, and F91 Dudelange still is today. These are all amateur teams of one of the worst nations in football in the whole world. Football teams merge in Luxembourg all the time, there are many other examples such as RM Hamm Benfica, Union Luxembourg, and when I was a young lad playing midfield for FC Berdenia Berbourg we had to drive halfway across the country (which, admittedly, isn't all that far) to Lorentzweiler and team up with them so we could barely have enough players.

I am very much against Becca on this as everyone else but seriously this blog post has absolutely no relevance at all, there is absolutely no comparison

 

[thehog]

Cofidis didn't toss aside Armstrong, but it sounds like a good story and is all part of the myth of the miracle coming back from cancer, rejected by his team and having to build a new team bla blah blah...

I know that! I was making light of the situation! to show the "irony" in some of the responses.

Off-topic I know but Cofids paid out Armstrong 600k and released him to negotiate with other parties. Sounds to me Becca didn't provide the same courtesy to Mercedes.

 

[Benotti69]

I know that! I was making light of the situation! to show the "irony" in some of the responses.

Off-topic I know but Cofids paid out Armstrong 600k and released him to negotiate with other parties. Sounds to me Becca didn't provide the same courtesy to Mercedes.

this aint the clinic where people know the difference between irony, sarcasm and other nuances, they believe in here that LA is a natural born climber FFS

 

[pastronef]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb-Qao0va4c&feature=related