Lidl-Trek (no longer Radioshack-Leopard Trek)

[kurtinsc]

Hello? Is this thing working?

The point is a sports team in a minor sport fired a major sponsor. If I were a global brand looking for a way to advertise, there's no way I'm touching cycling. I can't even be assured at this point whether the deal I make would last.

If a business relationship breaks down to the point that everyone is looking at their contract, that's bad. In this case, doubly bad for cycling.

Umm... sponsors do the same to cycling teams as well. T-Mobile? Heck, individual cyclists break their contracts all the time... and pay the financial penalties spelled out in the contracts when doing so.

The whole point of having a contract isn't that it somehow ensures that both sides will live up to the deal. The point is to protect both sides so that if one side backs out of the deal, the other has protection spelled out through financial penalties to be paid by the side breaking the deal. It's really not meant so much as an incentive to live up to the contract... just protection in case the other side breaks it.

In most business situations, the financial reward to be given if a contract is broken is enough that having it break isn't that big a deal to the side recieving the damages.

If you expect to make a million dollars in profit off a contract, and the damages for breech are a million dollars... who cares if they break it?

I'm sure Mercedes isn't unfamiliar with contracts. If they wanted a binding deal where Leopard couldn't back out, I'm sure they could have arranged it by setting a ridiculous damage dollar amount. It probably would have cost them a lot more money to get Leopard to accept it though. This still doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Contracts being broken is simply not an odd occurrence for any business. There's no way MB wasn't in some way prepared for this possiblity.

 

[Bicicleta]

What I am curious about it how many of these Leopard riders will stay with Bruyneel after 2012.

 

[MacRoadie]

Umm... sponsors do the same to cycling teams as well. T-Mobile? Heck, individual cyclists break their contracts all the time... and pay the financial penalties spelled out in the contracts when doing so.

I believe the point is that while Mercedes-Benz, T-Mobile, Nissan, Microsoft, and the likes can drop a sponsorship on a whim (and simply pay whatever penalty that entails), it won't preclude someone else from coming along begging for their money.

Cycling isn't in the same leverage position as a multi-billion dollar market cap, multi-national corporation. It can't pick and choose and capriciously take or leave sponsorships on a whim.

Teams are having a hard enough time finding sponsors as it is (just ask Mr. Becca) and any negative sponsorship history has the potential to make a corporation, that already has people lining up to court its marketing dollars to begin with, look elsewhere.

 

[Aleajactaest]

This may come as a surprise but there is a high likelihood that the Mercedes contract differed from your apartment lease

Just sayin

It may come as no surprise in a business like cycling in which funding is fungible, that they might built termination clauses into contracts. Unlike say, the NFL, where teams have steady revenue and decades of ownership, cycling team germinate, bloom and then die off with startling regularity. To enter into contracts without considering that seems like poor management.

 

[Aleajactaest]

What I am curious about it how many of these Leopard riders will stay with Bruyneel after 2012.

The implication being that he'll burn them and they'll run away. And yet, he has a lengthy track records with a lot of his riders, they can't be too angry.

 

[Race Radio]

Teams are having a hard enough time finding sponsors as it is (just ask Mr. Becca) and any negative sponsorship history has the potential to make a corporation, that already has people lining up to court its marketing dollars to begin with, look elsewhere.

It certainly does not paint a stable picture

Even though some may think it is OK to screw Mercedes as long as it is only the wholly owned Luxembourg subsidiary of the German Parent company this is short sighted.

Beyond that fact that Mercedes HQ is located only 3 hours away in Stuttgart the sport has a history of starting with a local entity and moving on to the parent. Riis started his team with the Danish subsidiary of CSC and once they showed an ROI the US based parent company stepped in and took over increased the sponsorship.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Purely from a cycling fan's perspective, I wince whenever sponsors get a raw deal in cycling. The sport is already hurting for sponsorship, as HTC's situation demonstrated.

Race Radio brings up a good point in terms of the Luxembourg unit acting as a feeler for the larger corporation to determine the ROI.

Perhaps Mercedes will continue as a sponsor with another team.

 

[Race Radio]

The implication being that he'll burn them and they'll run away. And yet, he has a lengthy track records with a lot of his riders, they can't be too angry.

Yes, he has a lengthy track record

Paolo Savoldelli

“As soon as he joined Astana, I decided to leave. He still owes me my share of the prize money from the 2005 Tour we won with Discovery. Also, he was just never honest with me,”

Benoit Joachim

"Johan Bruyneel's great gift is that he's a liar".

Eric Boyer

"What I understand least is how anyone can still believe the words of Johan Bruyneel?"

Benjamin Noval

this year the atmosphere in the team has been really bad, but it was bad because of Johan Bruyneel,

 

[just some guy]

Purely from a cycling fan's perspective, I wince whenever sponsors get a raw deal in cycling. The sport is already hurting for sponsorship, as HTC's situation demonstrated.

Race Radio brings up a good point in terms of the Luxembourg unit acting as a feeler for the larger corporation to determine the ROI.

Perhaps Mercedes will continue as a sponsor with another team.

Saxo-Sungard bought to you by Mercedes

would have the best effect, mercedes giving the middle finger to Frandayshack

 

[thehog]

Yes, he has a lengthy track record

Paolo Savoldelli


Benoit Joachim


Eric Boyer

The other problem I have is now that we know what we know courtesy of Floyd whereby Bruyneel was labelled more as a witch doctor and good with handing out the enhancers than a DS makes me a little sceptical. Yes it was easy to win all those Tours when you knew that you were going to be so much strong than everyone else because of outside factors. If they’re already treating Mercedes the way they are then I worry that they’ll treat the rule book just the same when it comes to sporting ethics.

 

[Benotti69]

The other problem I have is now that we know what we know courtesy of Floyd whereby Bruyneel was labelled more as a witch doctor and good with handing out the enhancers than a DS makes me a little sceptical. Yes it was easy to win all those Tours when you knew that you were going to be so much strong than everyone else because of outside factors. If they’re already treating Mercedes the way they are then I worry that they’ll treat the rule book just the same when it comes to sporting ethics.

Since when did sporting ethics ever enter into it with Bruyneel

i wonder how much rider's prize money ended up in Bruyneel's Swiss account.

 

[peloton]

Can someone explain me how this would be possible?

“If Andy is lacking anything in the past few Tours, it’s what he’s missing in the time trials. I think Johan will be able to help him improve in the time trials.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...k-will-benefit-by-racing-with-bruyneel_192131

Riis turned Cancellara into a TT machine, if anyone, he could have improved Andy's TT. I find it hard to believe what the Hog could do, outside clinic material?

 

[MacRoadie]

i wonder how much rider's prize money ended up in Bruyneel's Swiss account.

I have a feeling if you want to know where the money went, you'll need to take the conversation over to the clinic...

 

[Bicicleta]

Wonder if there is a little rift between Bruyneel and Brajkovik:

Source: http://twitter.com/#!/Biarnes72

Biarnes72
Brajkovic reproche a Bruyneel 2 lui avoir fait prendre le départ 2 laVuelta avec 2kg de - par rapport à son poids 2 forme 58kg au lieu de 60

Biarnes72
Brajkovic culpa a Bruyneel de haberlo levado a la Vuelta con dos kilos menos que su peso de forma (osea 58 kg en vez de 60 kg)

Biarnes72
@marcelperdant selon lui c'est Bruyneel qui lui a "imposé" de perdre 2 kg ... il explique que ça a été une "des" erreurs !


Hope he does not make Andy loose 2k.

 

[thehog]

Can someone explain me how this would be possible?


http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...k-will-benefit-by-racing-with-bruyneel_192131

Riis turned Cancellara into a TT machine, if anyone, he could have improved Andy's TT. I find it hard to believe what the Hog could do, outside clinic material?

Funny reading the quotes on the page. They're not normal VeloNews type of quotes. Seems most even Radioshack fans can see if Andy starts to time trial out of his legs then something is up.

 

[pastronef]

Benoit Joachim

Quote:
"Johan Bruyneel's great gift is that he's a liar".

what happened with Joachim?

 

[hfer07]

Can someone explain me how this would be possible?


http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...k-will-benefit-by-racing-with-bruyneel_192131

Riis turned Cancellara into a TT machine, if anyone, he could have improved Andy's TT. I find it hard to believe what the Hog could do, outside clinic material?

100% Agreed- I doubt Bruyneel can "replicate" the LA Transformation into Andy's riding style had he gotten to do it "clean"

 

[Christian]

what happened with Joachim?

No one really knows. He tested positive for nandrolone at the national ITT championship in 2000, the B-test confirmed this. He was then suspended by the federation and sacked by his team US Postal. Interestingly enough, he said that he had never used PED's, but only "what my team mates also used", thus indirectly accusing Armstrong. He was later cleared by the federation for irregularities during the testing procedure, and got his old job back at US Postal. He even rode the Tour the following year. It's certainly an interesting story and apparently there was also something with a policeman who was accused of drug trafficking, and who was supposed to be in contact with Joachim. At the WC in Varese, where Joachim was the sole starter in ITT for Luxembourg, his room was searched by Italian police. IIRC he claimed he had used some sort of special oxygen tent to simulate high-altitude training.

During his last season at Astana he once said he had "virtually no contact with Bruyneel".

Why or when or if he said what Race Radio quotes I do not know. One also has to consider though that Joachim himself is a bit of a questionable figure. For example after his contract ended at Astana he signed for CT Differdange and did 1 race all season, for the rest he was out with a broken finger. When LEOPARD TREK was formed, he said that he had raced under Adriano Baffi (one of the DS's), that he's really not that good, and that he himself could just as well have done the same job.

I also remember a statement of Marcel Gilles (Luxembourg's most renowned cycling expert) about Joachim going back to people "who stabbed him in the back". Since Gilles is part of the federation I doubt he meant them, but I guess it must not necessarily mean US Postal either.

 

[Race Radio]

Can someone explain me how this would be possible?


http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...k-will-benefit-by-racing-with-bruyneel_192131

Riis turned Cancellara into a TT machine, if anyone, he could have improved Andy's TT. I find it hard to believe what the Hog could do, outside clinic material?

High cadence pedaling and extract of unicorn tears

 

[peloton]

Wonder if there is a little rift between Bruyneel and Brajkovik:

Source: http://twitter.com/#!/Biarnes72

Biarnes72
Brajkovic reproche a Bruyneel 2 lui avoir fait prendre le départ 2 laVuelta avec 2kg de - par rapport à son poids 2 forme 58kg au lieu de 60

Biarnes72
Brajkovic culpa a Bruyneel de haberlo levado a la Vuelta con dos kilos menos que su peso de forma (osea 58 kg en vez de 60 kg)

Biarnes72
@marcelperdant selon lui c'est Bruyneel qui lui a "imposé" de perdre 2 kg ... il explique que ça a été une "des" erreurs !


Hope he does not make Andy loose 2k.

In English, please.

 

[luckyboy]

In English, please.

Biarnes72
Brajkovic Bruyneel has criticized him having 2 to start with 2 laVuelta 2kg - over 58kg weight 2 forms instead of 60

Biarnes72
Brajkovic culpa Bruyneel has haberlo levado of the Vuelta a menos con dos kilos weight as a (in time bone 58 kg 60 kg)

Biarnes72
@ marcelperdant he said Bruyneel is it a "forced" to lose 2 kg ... he explained that it was a "" errors!

 

[Bicicleta]

In English, please.

Per Brajkovik, for Vuelta Bruyneel "imposed" a 2k weight loss on him, below his usual "in form" weight of 60k. According to Brajko, this was one of their "errors" at la Vuelta

 

[thehog]

High cadence pedaling and extract of unicorn tears

Oh dear you're right. They'll start creating a "story" to go with the soundtrack. Here we go.

 

[Pippo_San]

Riis turned Cancellara into a TT machine, if anyone, he could have improved Andy's TT. I find it hard to believe what the Hog could do, outside clinic material?

the Hog trained Basso for a few months, but he didn't exactly become a TT beast (well if you turn the values upside down maybe... )

...yeah yeah no clinic...

 

[MajorTom]

Per Brajkovik, for Vuelta Bruyneel "imposed" a 2k weight loss on him, below his usual "in form" weight of 60k. According to Brajko, this was one of their "errors" at la Vuelta

it's the opposite. Jani was 58 kilos all season and Bruyneel required from him to gain 2 kilos otherwise he wouldn't be allowed to start Vuelta

and yes, it's pretty obvious that Jani wants to leave the team but we'll see

and there were some Astana rumors