Longo's Hubster (Ciprelli) arrested!

[joe_papp]

interview on French TV

I'm amazed at how quickly they turned this around. From a call Thursday afternoon to having a French correspondent in Pgh on Friday morning to having it on M6 in France for their prime time show (only a few hrs after we filmed the interview). Anyway, here's the link:

http://www.m6replay.fr/#/info/le-1945/41772

(might be subject to geo-restriction that you need to address)

 

[frenchfry]

I'm amazed at how quickly they turned this around. From a call Thursday afternoon to having a French correspondent in Pgh on Friday morning to having it on M6 in France for their prime time show (only a few hrs after we filmed the interview). Anyway, here's the link:

http://www.m6replay.fr/#/info/le-1945/41772

(might be subject to geo-restriction that you need to address)

Congrats for making it onto French TV. Too bad the circumstances weren't a little more positive (no pun intended).

The Ciprelli/Longo's have hired a couple of good lawyers/PR specialists. If you listen to them it becomes totally obvious that Ciprelli bought for himself and Longo is a clean as the driven snow. They are using the same tired formula perfected by so many dopers before - deny, obstifucate, manipulate. Will it work?

 

[Le breton]

..............

The Ciprelli/Longo's have hired a couple of good lawyers/PR specialists. If you listen to them it becomes totally obvious that Ciprelli bought for himself and Longo is a clean as the driven snow. They are using the same tired formula perfected by so many dopers before - deny, obstifucate, manipulate. Will it work?

Ciprelli's career as a trainer is most likely over, but who knows : look at Dr Mabuse, Ferrari, Conconi, etc.
For Longo I don't see anything yet that would definitely incriminate her : she is not involved in the trafficking and there is no positive test against her.

Anyway Joe Papp is making a name for himself.
From everything I have read so far it looks like his relation with Ciprelli was purely commercial : Papp obviously didn't like Ciprelli, maybe a question of language barrier.

It also looks like if Papp had not made so much noise about the 2007 EPO (eposino) purchase (following Longo missed "appointment" with the antidoping squad) the French police authorities would never have enquired about other possible deals by Ciprelli.

Which leads to this question to Joe Papp : if you had had a good rapport with Ciprelli in 2007 would you have kept quiet about that transaction?

 

[joe_papp]

Ciprelli's career as a trainer is most likely over, but who knows : look at Dr Mabuse, Ferrari, Conconi, etc.
For Longo I don't see anything yet that would definitely incriminate her : she is not involved in the trafficking and there is no positive test against her.

Anyway Joe Papp is making a name for himself.
From everything I have read so far it looks like his relation with Ciprelli was purely commercial : Papp obviously didn't like Ciprelli, maybe a question of language barrier.

It also looks like if Papp had not made so much noise about the 2007 EPO (eposino) purchase (following Longo missed "appointment" with the antidoping squad) the French police authorities would never have enquired about other possible deals by Ciprelli.

Which leads to this question to Joe Papp : if you had had a good rapport with Ciprelli in 2007 would you have kept quiet about that transaction?

I kept quiet about the transaction until after 2010 I think when the French had been formally notified and had the evidence, should've acted, but had done nothing.

I had no problem w/ Ciprelli personally or from a commercial point of view. I even arranged for him to receive 40,000iu EPO free at the time.

From 2007 to 2011 I never said anything on the record publicly against Ciprelli / Longo, just like I never said anything on the record about Zajicek for quite some time.

 

[Benotti69]

Ciprelli's career as a trainer is most likely over, but who knows : look at Dr Mabuse, Ferrari, Conconi, etc.
For Longo I don't see anything yet that would definitely incriminate her : she is not involved in the trafficking and there is no positive test against her.

Anyway Joe Papp is making a name for himself.
From everything I have read so far it looks like his relation with Ciprelli was purely commercial : Papp obviously didn't like Ciprelli, maybe a question of language barrier.

It also looks like if Papp had not made so much noise about the 2007 EPO (eposino) purchase (following Longo missed "appointment" with the antidoping squad) the French police authorities would never have enquired about other possible deals by Ciprelli.

Which leads to this question to Joe Papp : if you had had a good rapport with Ciprelli in 2007 would you have kept quiet about that transaction?

Sounds like you are disappointed that someone has been caught for doping?

Whatever the reasons behind JP and i doubt he is anti French he named a doper/doping coach.

The more the merrier for the sport to clean up its act.

Let's all bury our heads in the sand and hope it goes away or let's demand that Longo come clean about her career and not hind behind Ciprelli.

 

[webvan]

I'm confused, is it legal to sell EPO or was Joe Pap trafficking ?

 

[Le breton]

Sounds like you are disappointed that someone has been caught for doping?

Whatever the reasons behind JP and i doubt he is anti French he named a doper/doping coach.

The more the merrier for the sport to clean up its act.

Let's all bury our heads in the sand and hope it goes away or let's demand that Longo come clean about her career and not hind behind Ciprelli.

I wrote what my impressions were. Now Joe Papp says I was wrong on a number of points, so be it.
I never said Joe Papp was anti French, in fact my impression is quite the opposite.

Of course, if it turns out that Ciprelli's EPO was for Jeannie Longo I will be very disappointed, but not as much as if, say, I were to learn that Moncoutié was not clean.

There is one performance by Jeannie Longo that really astounded me and I found to be on the verge of suspicious, that was her Mount Evans 1998 climb in 1h59'19.

All her other performances are consistent, her slow-down with age is absolutely normal, nothing strange about it. The exact opposite of somebody like Laurent Fignon for example whose career was marked by incredible and unexplained swings in performance.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I look for Ciprelli to come back stronger and more motivated than ever when he returns from his 2-year suspension with Christina Watches.

 

[Benotti69]

I wrote what my impressions were. Now Joe Papp says I was wrong on a number of points, so be it.
I never said Joe Papp was anti French, in fact my impression is quite the opposite.

Of course, if it turns out that Ciprelli's EPO was for Jeannie Longo I will be very disappointed, but not as much as if, say, I were to learn that Moncoutié was not clean.

There is one performance by Jeannie Longo that really astounded me and I found to be on the verge of suspicious, that was her Mount Evans 1998 climb in 1h59'19.

All her other performances are consistent, her slow-down with age is absolutely normal, nothing strange about it. The exact opposite of somebody like Laurent Fignon for example whose career was marked by incredible and unexplained swings in performance.

Her performances are consistent with an athlete that has doped her whole career.

As for the epo,if it wasn't for Longo who was it for???

Longo doped, looked at her leg muscle structure. She has been doping a long time.

 

[WildspokeJoe]

Ciprelli's career as a trainer is most likely over, but who knows : look at Dr Mabuse, Ferrari, Conconi, etc.
For Longo I don't see anything yet that would definitely incriminate her : she is not involved in the trafficking and there is no positive test against her.

Obvious you're biased considering who it is. Which if you're a fan is totally understandably but if you heard the same story about a father and son in Japan - the father (who is the son's coach) was found with PEDs and said they were for his own personal use and not for his son, would you believe him?

 

[Le breton]

Her performances are consistent with an athlete that has doped her whole career.

As for the epo,if it wasn't for Longo who was it for???

Longo doped, looked at her leg muscle structure. She has been doping a long time.

Her performances are consistent with an athlete that has doped her whole career.

Presumably, if she doped her whole career she followed the movement and went for Epo as soon as it became widely and safely available (ie unsafe in 1990 and before, safe in 1991 and after).
Now let's look at her performance in stage races

Résultats sur le Tour de France1985 : 2e, vainqueur de 5 étapes et du classement par points
1986 : 2e, vainqueur de 4 étapes et du classement par points
1987 : Vainqueur du classement général, vainqueur de 4 étapes et du classement par points
1988 : Vainqueur du classement général, vainqueur de 5 étapes et du classement par points
1989 : Vainqueur du classement général, vainqueur de 5 étapes et du classement de la montagne
1992 : 2e, vainqueur de 2 étapes
1993 : abandon (1re étape), vainqueur du prologue
1995 : 2e, vainqueur de 2 étapes
1996 : 3e, vainqueur de 3 étapes et du contre-la-montre par équipes
2001 : 9e

She did ok after the arrival of EPO, but certainly not better than before. At the end of the 80's she was more or less at the same level as Canins.
In the 90's she was beaten by Van Morseel, Luperini, Polikeviciute then realized after 1996 that she had better concentrate on 1 day races and use stage races mostly as training.
Not exactly the behaviour from somebody who would be thoroughly dope dependent.

As for the epo,if it wasn't for Longo who was it for???
Edwige? skiers? who knows. We still don't know much about quantities purchased by Ciprelli.

Longo doped, looked at her leg muscle structure

Wow, that's a new one on me, I didn't know experts eyes could identify dopers from their leg structure! Is that a WADA, AFLD, UCI approved detection method?

 

[Le breton]

Obvious you're biased considering who it is. Which if you're a fan is totally understandably but if you heard the same story about a father and son in Japan - the father (who is the son's coach) was found with PEDs and said they were for his own personal use and not for his son, would you believe him?

Except Ciprelli had an affair with another woman during the time frame we are talking about and didn't live with Longo.
I am probably biased because I have had opportunities to race and talk with Longo (and Ciprelli) but I'm trying my best not to blind myself to reality. Then of course I could also think : oh well she beat me in this and that race but ...........

As I said, there is one performance of hers that seems too good to be true : Mount Evans 1998 and I have always had some doubts about that one.

In a purely legal sense it looks like there is not yet what is needed to pin her down.

 

[WildspokeJoe]

Except Ciprelli had an affair with another woman during the time frame we are talking about and didn't live with Longo.

Ok, I'm sorry so when he bought the EPO he had no contact with Longo during that time?

Well, if they didn't have any contact then his story is plausible.

But you didn't answer my question. If you a heard a similar story with other parties involved do you think you would believe it?

 

[Le breton]

Ok, I'm sorry so when he bought the EPO he had no contact with Longo during that time?

Well, if they didn't have any contact then his story is plausible.

But you didn't answer my question. If you a heard a similar story with other parties involved do you think you would believe it?

Well, if they didn't have any contact then his story is plausible.
As far as I know he still acted as her trainer so that they were in contact.

Of course I understand that people will automatically think that the EPO was for Longo.

But then, if you heard that Basso's sister was involved in some dope trafficking, would you automatically assume it would be for her brother? Presumably not as she has many connections in the cycling world.

 

[joe_papp]

VeloNation reporting that Longo will retire...

"Bruno Ravaz, a lawyer representing both her and Ciprelli, told RMC radio that he believed she has taken the decision to stop.

“I think Jeannie Longo understands that her sports career has ended,” he said. “She wants to focus on her private life and will try to cope in a very dignified and human way. What counts is her private life, and her career is far from those concerns.”"

I wrote what my impressions were. Now Joe Papp says I was wrong on a number of points, so be it.
I never said Joe Papp was anti French, in fact my impression is quite the opposite...

Just to weigh in here, I didn't feel attacked personally there or anything. I felt like you were sharing your impressions, like you said, and inviting me to clarify, which I've done. As long as my response is accepted for what it is - the truth as I experienced it - then I'm happy to continue the dialogue always, to the degree that I'm legally able at any point.

...As I said, there is one performance of hers that seems too good to be true : Mount Evans 1998 and I have always had some doubts about that one.
In a purely legal sense it looks like there is not yet what is needed to pin her down.

It wouldn't be exactly fair of me to claim that I was fairly certain that Longo had been doping based on other evidence that I can't share with you, so I won't go that route. Ultimately it's an unfortunate situation and the only way the sport will move forward is if the truth comes out and we look for ways to break the cycle (pun intended).

Cheers.

 

[Benotti69]

Well, if they didn't have any contact then his story is plausible.
As far as I know he still acted as her trainer so that they were in contact.

Of course I understand that people will automatically think that the EPO was for Longo.

ah c'mon she is winning races at 53 FFS.

But then, if you heard that Basso's sister was involved in some dope trafficking, would you automatically assume it would be for her brother? Presumably not as she has many connections in the cycling world.

Basso clean? He served a 2 year ban. He is proven to have been a client of Fuentes! Do i believe he gets dope from his sister, probably, why not? If she is dealing and he is doping of course he is? Gets a discount doesn't he! These guys are not on footballers wages!

 

[WildspokeJoe]

Well, if they didn't have any contact then his story is plausible.
As far as I know he still acted as her trainer so that they were in contact.

Of course I understand that people will automatically think that the EPO was for Longo.

But then, if you heard that Basso's sister was involved in some dope trafficking, would you automatically assume it would be for her brother? Presumably not as she has many connections in the cycling world.

As for Basso, I would think his sister's number #1 customer would be her brother. Just a natural assumption similar to Long/Ciprelli.

Occam's razor applies in both places.

 

[Le breton]

ah c'mon she is winning races at 53 FFS.



Basso clean? He served a 2 year ban. He is proven to have been a client of Fuentes! Do i believe he gets dope from his sister, probably, why not? If she is dealing and he is doping of course he is? Gets a discount doesn't he! These guys are not on footballers wages!

I am not a native English speaker but still most people seem to understand what I write, however you don't.
Too bad, there is no point continuing the discussion.

Cheers

PS
I have a friend who races on foot (he used to be a racing cyclist ages ago) and has won several times the 100 km French championship, the last time at age 50. (He has won many other more prestigious events all over the world after the age of 45 and been considered an embarrassement by the French sport officials, just as Longo has, he was too old for their comfort, gave a bad image of the sport). Therefore I take it that for you he is a doper FFS.

 

[joe_papp]

Obviously Longo is 1000x more popular and high profile in France than she is here in USA. But seeing as this discussion is being conducted among English-speakers...does the public think she should be allowed to retire in peace w/o offering up a confession of at least having "made mistakes" - if she did dope? Or should she be hounded relentlessly until she cracks like Ciprelli? I acknowledge the fact that there's seemingly no legal proof to tie her directly to doping so, but does she need to make an explicit, unambiguous denial of having doped in order to defend her legacy? Or will silence suffice for the French public?

 

[Berzin]

Does the public think she should be allowed to retire in peace w/o offering up a confession of at least having "made mistakes" - if she did dope?

Just like freedom of speech wasn't meant to defend the lowbrow rantings of the lunatic fringes of our society, so too was "innocent until proven guilty" not meant to defend people who are as blatantly suspicious as Longo.

You don't need a philosophical construct like Occam's Razor to see with your own eyes that what was going on is physiologically impossible without steroids. Not improbable, IMPOSSIBLE.

Then after her husband gets caught, she conveniently retires for the sake of privacy and peace of mind.

This tells me that she wants to avoid the spotlight. She has come to the realization that defending her husband will become a fight to restore her athletic reputation, due to the fact that they were as tightly linked as a couple could be as husband-wife and coach-client.

Or should she be hounded relentlessly until she cracks like Ciprelli? I acknowledge the fact that there's seemingly no legal proof to tie her directly to doping so, but does she need to make an explicit, unambiguous denial of having doped in order to defend her legacy? Or will silence suffice for the French public?

Hounded relentlessly? All she has to do to end the speculation over her career is tell the truth. She won't because her main focus is on protecting what's left of her legacy.

All she can do is keep quiet and ride off into the sunset. Methinks if it wasn't for this, she'd still be riding, so what does THAT tell you?

Giving her the benefit of the doubt to such lengths isn't a matter of "innocent until proven guilty". It is an absolute insult to the meaning of the premise and to the intelligence of any pragmatic doubter who has doubted her for YEARS.

 

[El Pistolero]

Hah, the only big French cyclist is a dirty dirty doper. Who would've thought. The whole world except France.

 

[Le breton]

.............
"innocent until proven guilty" not meant to defend people who are as blatantly suspicious as Longo.

.

Do you live in Syria or Saudi Arabia?

 

[El Pistolero]

Do you live in Syria or Saudi Arabia?

You're guilty until proven guilty according to Sport Tribunals.

It's why Contador got banned for 50 pictogram clenbuterol in his blood while Longo will get off the hook for buying for 15.000 Euros worth of Epo Just cause she's French and we all know French don't cheat

 

[Freddythefrog]

Innocent until proven guilty

Do you live in Syria or Saudi Arabia?

"Innocent until proven guilty" is great but it is only one half of a whole that only functions as a whole. It is part of a pact - that of being subject to a fair trial by ones peers (or some sort of magistrate system). We are not privy but much "smoke" in the past suggested that some of the "absences" from competition in the past were agreed co-operations. The French Fed would not announce that she had doped and she would not scream some sort of "foul". Special treatment for a national treasure who, if exposed, her fall from grace would disgrace the whole of French Cycling. That they took zero action when in receipt of the copies of the emails between Joe and Ciprelli to pursue Ciprelli, again points to a failure to honour that half of the pact in a reliable manner.

It is this appalling failure of the elite leadership of this sport that gets us all spitting. That stupid post - why don't a lot of the posters on the clinic post elsewhere. Just look at the top 10 in the Tour over the last 20 years. From Big Mig roaring up the Alps like he was on a motorbike onwards, all we have been watching is a complete joke. Why bother to comment when one has no idea who has the best stock of red blood cells put by ?

The sport is a testament to lack of leadership. Virtually all the breakthroughs in terms of drug busts have come about by chance events by agencies external to the sport.

I would be interested to learn of your source and time line of the Ciprelli - Pitel link. I thought we heard from Pitel herself and not refuted by Ciprelli, that it was all over in mid 2008. I had information direct from a source who, aparently spoke to Pitel, that she started working with Ciprelli in latish 2007. The concept that Ciprelli could live with an anti-doping Longo for many years and then metamorphoses into a supplier with Pitel is fanciful in the extreme.

Longo was off to the Olympics. That she is now set to retire is an insult exactly as Berzin posts.

 

[frenchfry]

Hah, the only big French cyclist is a dirty dirty doper. Who would've thought. The whole world except France.

To be honest I haven't seen much defending of Longo, most information on the situation has been factual and not emotional.

The difficulty is that without direct proof, it will be hard to get to Longo.

As in many similar doping cases, it is frustrating that there can't be quick resolution based on the obvious. I really don't see how anyone can think Longo hasn't been doping for a very long time. To argue that she and Ciprelli weren't together is ridiculous because he has always remained her trainer throughout his sordid affairs. To argue that the EPO purchases were exclusively for Ciprelli is ridiculous. Then there is the fact that Longo agressively avoided testing, and even very recently attempted to be taken out of the location/testing pool even though she is aiming for the olympics.

Where the French insititutions can be roundly criticised is on information that the cycling federation was sitting on information regarding the Ciprelli EPO purchases from Joe Papp, and the fact that Ciprelli was employed by the sports ministry at the same time he was making multiple EPO purchases.

Meanwhile a couple of high prices lawyers are doing an excellent job of clouding the issue and leading an effictive PR campaign to protect Longo's image.

The good news is that it is starting to look like Longo will disappear from competitive cycling, what remains to be seen is if her doping will be exposed. Stay tuned.