Majka

[Benotti69]

Well according to your logic, it's only a matter of time before the speeder becomes a murderer......

and I'm guessing you have driven over the speed limit in your lifetime?

Talk about an analogy that is out of the ball park.

Since when did doping equate to murder.

Can you point to where the doping culture in cycling ended?

When Sky sacked Leinders? When Sky sacked Julich, Yates and DeJong?

When Armstrong retired?

When did this culture to dope for cyclists end?

If Majka doesn't like the doping allegations than he should be doing all he can to show us he is clean.

 

[sniper]

..
Poland is not France. Majka is not Pinot. You say he didn't have results in junior times. Yeah. You know what the situaton of Polish cycling was? What it is now? There was no chance to train properly or race abroad and confront other riders - lack of money, people etc.

interesting post.
has the situation changed, is there more money now?
would you say majka and kwiatkowski are a product of increased investments in polish cycling or would you say their simultaneous rise is more of a coincidence?

 

[Baldwin]

Wait, did you just use "stuck to Contador's wheel" as an argument for cleanliness

Oh and many here have a very good idea of what it takes to be a pro. Its people like you who clearly have no idea since you believe that the people who refuse to do everything in their power to win will ride faster than the ones who stop at nothing to win.

What a wonderful world. Lets rewrite history while we are at it and pretend historically the good forgiving honest people were always the ones who truimphed

dude, do not try to put words into my mouth. I gave you the feedback, some facts you guys may not know. You judge for yourself. At no point I am giving agrument for his cleanliness.

interesting post.
has the situation changed, is there more money now?
would you say majka and kwiatkowski are a product of increased investments in polish cycling or would you say their simultaneous rise is more of a coincidence?

the situaton has been improving but there is not much money, doping culture exists and if a rider is talented and wants to develop, he leaves the country.

Majka and Kwiatkowski. Two big talents, lucky enough to get their careers on the right track. Kwiatkowski was more tied to Polish system, he was coached in a good club and won a lot in junior ranks. He than went to Italy, had no results, no idea how to train. Got himself a pro contract and then started learning and developing cause they didn't want results, the wanted him to ride.

The peloton is changing, the emerged at the same time, hard to say. But surely they are not a product of major changes in Poland.

 

[Netserk]

Poland is not France. Majka is not Pinot. You say he didn't have results in junior times. Yeah. You know what the situaton of Polish cycling was? What it is now? There was no chance to train properly or race abroad and confront other riders - lack of money, people etc.

I offer you Kwiatkowski as counter.

 

[andy1234]

Talk about an analogy that is out of the ball park.

Since when did doping equate to murder.

Can you point to where the doping culture in cycling ended?

When Sky sacked Leinders? When Sky sacked Julich, Yates and DeJong?

When Armstrong retired?

When did this culture to dope for cyclists end?

If Majka doesn't like the doping allegations than he should be doing all he can to show us he is clean.

It's like talking to a telesales rep.
As soon as someone questions your pitch, you rattle off a list of points, irrelevant to the question.

Carry on, someone will buy what you are selling....

 

[Winterfold]

Majka is very interesting, I have found him a compelling character since he first appeared to me, because of his totally committed domestique performances in vuelta 2012, but didnt really know much about his back story before this Tour.

It seems like he could be an example of a natural 'undiscovered' talent, but then there are signs with which we are familiar - and since being found he has been under the tutelage of someone it is wise to be circumspect about.

He suffers for sure, I think he tests would show him to have a physiology at the far extremes, but there was something about the moto grab and the winking that undermines your ability to believe in him.

But... this Tour is pretty slow, for now he can have the benefit of the doubt from me

 

[SafeBet]

Where did he push himself in the first week?

It's not what he didn't do in the first week, it's what he did after that.
A rider having raced the Giro full gas comes to the Tour with no form whatsoever (too tired, by his own words) and top3s on 4 high mountain stages, often riding at comparable speed with the GC riders. When has that happened in the last 15 years?
As someone else noted, not even fully juiced Simoni could do it.
I'm not buying it.

 

[yespatterns]

The whole thread is getting ridiculous, leading some of you to talks about morality, cheating, logic - stuff neither of you seem to know or understand.

You have a thread. About a rider. Talk about what is suspicious.

I am not defending Rafal Majka, I am not accusing him. I have my personal opinion, not going to share it, though. What I am going to do is give you some feedback.

Poland is not France. Majka is not Pinot. You say he didn't have results in junior times. Yeah. You know what the situaton of Polish cycling was? What it is now? There was no chance to train properly or race abroad and confront other riders - lack of money, people etc.

Majka raced in Italy in U23 and had a hard road ahead of him. It's not a secret that racing there is a big shock for many young guns (Clinic guys should know why).

He got the contract with SaxoBank after winter training camp. He was the only one to stay on Contador's wheel on the climb. Sticked to him like a glue and did all exercises they wanted him to. Excellent test results, pure climber - contract.

His performances were steady, slowly gaining ground on pro level. Also, showed twice that he's able to prepare for the race in a short period of time - went to 2013 Giro with 13 racing days and took 7th.

It is true that he was not suposed to peak at the Tour and his performance may raise eyebrows. But for now - there is nothing you can say - his times are slower, he just went into two breaks and had good legs.

Btw, I think that starting new threads on rider and "discussing" his performance from your sofa is a waste of time. You have NO IDEA what the rider is doing, how is he training, what is he taking, what are his plans, what affects his performance. Do you even know any rider in person? Do you know what it takes to be a cyclist? A pro one?

Bradley Wiggins clearly defined people like you in 2012.

Please explain why morality and cheating have no point of reference here.

ETA: and please also explain how we have no understanding of these.

 

[Baldwin]

I offer you Kwiatkowski as counter.

see my previous post. Kwiatkowski was coached in a club supported by National Federation, had good coaches and environment. He was European Champion, winning rider, there was money for him.

Look, it is hard for you to understand the system in Poland. It is mixed, there is no real system. Polish Cycling Federation is in debts for years, they cannot really help, sometimes they even harm. Clubs have to deal with the problems themselves - some have sponsors who buy them power meters, some don't have money for bikes and tyres.

Kwiatkowski, Majka, any other Polish rider you meet on a foreign team - they all went through a lot to get there - just because there are not so many opportunities in Poland. They all succeded because they left the country and were lucky enough to be given a pro contract.

I am not defending them, as I don't trust riders in general, just trying to make you realize where those guys are coming from. For you they may come from nowhere but if there is no possibility to show your talent, it's unlikely it will be spotted.

It's not what he didn't do in the first week, it's what he did after that.
A rider having raced the Giro full gas comes to the Tour with no form whatsoever (too tired, by his own words) and top3s on 4 high mountain stages, often riding at comparable speed with the GC riders. When has that happened in the last 15 years?

and that, I think, is the point of the discussion. We have Rolland (4th in the Giro) but he's 11th and not winning stages, he's fading.

 

[Netserk]

see my previous post. Kwiatkowski was coached in a club supported by National Federation, had good coaches and environment. He was European Champion, winning rider, there was money for him.

"There was no chance to train properly or race abroad and confront other riders - lack of money, people etc."

 

[Benotti69]

see my previous post. Kwiatkowski was coached in a club supported by National Federation, had good coaches and environment. He was European Champion, winning rider, there was money for him.

Look, it is hard for you to understand the system in Poland. It is mixed, there is no real system. Polish Cycling Federation is in debts for years, they cannot really help, sometimes they even harm. Clubs have to deal with the problems themselves - some have sponsors who buy them power meters, some don't have money for bikes and tyres.

Kwiatkowski, Majka, any other Polish rider you meet on a foreign team - they all went through a lot to get there - just because there are not so many opportunities in Poland. They all succeded because they left the country and were lucky enough to be given a pro contract.

I am not defending them, as I don't trust riders in general, just trying to make you realize where those guys are coming from. For you they may come from nowhere but if there is no possibility to show your talent, it's unlikely it will be spotted.



and that, I think, is the point of the discussion. We have Rolland (4th in the Giro) but he's 11th and not winning stages, he's fading.

Can you point to any rider in the pro peloton who did not have to go through a lot to get to the TdF?

Comparing the system in Poland with other systems that you have knowledge off?

 

[Baldwin]

"There was no chance to train properly or race abroad and confront other riders - lack of money, people etc."

dude, can you read? From my previous post you can clearly see that riders' development depends on the environment he is in. Some clubs and riders are lucky with money and coaches (Kwiatkowski in his junior years), some are not (Majka).

They both struggled in U23 ranks, got the chance in pro team and you see them now.

Can you point to any rider in the pro peloton who did not have to go through a lot to get to the TdF?

Comparing the system in Poland with other systems that you have knowledge off?

That's not the point. I am not talking about sacrificies you take to get to TdF. I am talking about sitaution in the country that is different than in other countries and how it makes the way even more beset with difficulties. In Britain, for example, you have a huge sponsor, programmes, money. In France, you have races. Organized structure. In Spain, again, you have races, a lot of races in young categories. Riders compete against their peers abroad. That was not the case in Poland - national team hardly ever going to Tour de l'Avenir, for instance. There are not many races, not much money.

 

[yespatterns]

dude, can you read? From my previous post you can clearly see that riders' development depends on the environment he is in. Some clubs and riders are lucky with money and coaches (Kwiatkowski in his junior years), some are not (Majka).

They both struggled in U23 ranks, got the chance in pro team and you see them now.



That's not the point. I am not talking about sacrificies you take to get to TdF. I am talking about sitaution in the country that is different than in other countries and how it makes the way even more beset with difficulties. In Britain, for example, you have a huge sponsor, programmes, money. In France, you have races. Organized structure. In Spain, again, you have races, a lot of races in young categories. Riders compete against their peers abroad. That was not the case in Poland - national team hardly ever going to Tour de l'Avenir, for instance. There are not many races, not much money.

Are there bicycles and roads in Poland?

 

[sittingbison]

Gentle(wo)men,
this is The Clinic. If you don't want to participate in discussion about doping, feel free to go elsewhere

BTW this thread will remain open. There is plenty about Majkas performance the past few days to warrant suspicion, discussion, speculation. This is professional cycling after all, not tiddlywinks

cheers
bison

 

[msjett]

I like Majka, but if he gets busted there will be no big surprise...Although to me he comes across as a little cheeky and bit cute (took me ages to work out he has one of those gems on his tooth), so the woman like me will probably be a bit more forgiving of his performances even if they seem a bit too good to be true.

 

[simoni]

you are smarter than that hrotha.

Speeding is still breaking the law.

Where did i talk about the sanctions?

I did compare 2 guys cheating using vehicles. One wins the KOM the other has gone home and team has been relegated from 2nd position in team cars.

Give us some details on what Rojas did and then we can decide if he and Majka have been punished appropriately. Did he take a tow for two seconds, 10 seconds, 10 minutes? Was he warned to stop? Did he consistently re-offend for 10s of km?

 

[sniper]

I like Majka, but if he gets busted there will be no big surprise...Although to me he comes across as a little cheeky and bit cute (took me ages to work out he has one of those gems on his tooth), so the woman like me will probably be a bit more forgiving of his performances even if they seem a bit too good to be true.

some poster previously said majka was able to follow contador uphill before he signed a procontract with saxo, which means he was probably doping already when he got onto the passport, which in turn diminishes his chances of getting flagged by said passport (unless of course he'd decide to stop doping for whatever odd reason).

 

[thehog]

Even so, there are some here claiming that the motorbike "got in the way".
Yet Majka can be seen changing direction, swinging in behind the bike, not the other way around.
Clearly, given the fact that he was fined and docked time, the race jury reached the same conclusion from the tv footage

On Avondetappe last night when asked directly, Majka tried to make the same claim about the motorbike getting in the way and said that he only touched it, but didn't take a pull.

So, having first cheated, he's now lied.

I honestly thought he was making fun of Froome hanging on to motorbikes

 

[Svetty]

Must confess the smile and cheeky wink did make Ricco cross my mind.......

 

[Almeisan]

Speaking of Ricco, they should give Ricco his tour stage wins back.

 

[Benotti69]

Speaking of Ricco, they should give Ricco his tour stage wins back.

Nah, catch Majka and take his away. Fairer.

 

[movingtarget]

It's not what he didn't do in the first week, it's what he did after that.
A rider having raced the Giro full gas comes to the Tour with no form whatsoever (too tired, by his own words) and top3s on 4 high mountain stages, often riding at comparable speed with the GC riders. When has that happened in the last 15 years?
As someone else noted, not even fully juiced Simoni could do it.
I'm not buying it.

He is 2 hours 14 minutes down on GC ! I think that puts things in perspective. Sure he did not want to ride the Tour but if he had been riding for Contador he would be even further down GC and without stage wins or the mountains jersey. So he is a showman no more or less than Sagan winking at the camera or what not. If he had ridden for GC instead, he could have been in the same situation as Porte. There was no pressure on him or Rogers after Contador crashed out. They targeted certain stages and took it easy on the others, that is a lot easier than trying not to drop time on GC every day. The guy is a top 5 GC rider not a domestique. I think if you doubt Majka you have to doubt many.

 

[thehog]

Speaking of Ricco, they should give Ricco his tour stage wins back.

Ricco is attempting Ventoux this weekend.

 

[msjett]

some poster previously said majka was able to follow contador uphill before he signed a procontract with saxo, which means he was probably doping already when he got onto the passport, which in turn diminishes his chances of getting flagged by said passport (unless of course he'd decide to stop doping for whatever odd reason).

mmm, you know if that is the case (which is likely) that is a pretty sad to think that outrageous performances of young cyclists won't set off the doping alarm because the passport won't throw up a red flag or that the only busts will come from testing for specifics.....and stupidity...

 

[marychain]

I thought his first stage win was rancid. He was in the early break, out all day, attacked for points on every Cat 1 finish, bridged from one group to another and still had the power to hold off a fast-approaching GC group on an HC climb. Not only that but he barely looked out of breath, and could even wink at the camera. He looked like a man to me who had absolutely no doubt at all that he was going to win the stage, even from the penultimate summit when he seemed to ease off and let Purito take the mountain points, like he knew he was getting the points at the end.

Then when he attacked the GC group and followed Nibali up the Hautacam I actually started laughing. I reckon Riis was in the ear-piece saying "Slow down Rafal, this is too obvious" or he would have caught Nibali.

I doubt he will get popped because these guys are too clever now, but his performances are blatantly not normal.

As an aside, I loved Rogers' face when Europcar tried to isolate him on Port de Bales. He just bridged over, twice, then led them all up the climb. Too funny...