Malaysian Flight 370?

[Alpe d'Huez]

In both the Paine Stewart crash, and the Helios 522 crash in Greece, the pilots became asphyxiated because of some sort of mis-diagnosed pressure issue. In the Helios crash the alarm that went off in the cockpit was accidentally shut off, the pilots believing it was something else. In both instances the flights continued on their flight path. The Helios jet towards Athens and then into a circling pattern automatically, while the flight attendants tried to break into the cockpit as they likely figured out what was going on and one of the attendants was a (non-commercial) student pilot. But the jet ran out of fuel before they could even try to save it. The Stewart jet just keep flying straight until it crashed.

With MH370s flightpath there is no possible way this happened. No way. A plane doesn’t automatically pick somewhere remote to fly where nothing is and then change course, altitude and speed a few times in the process. It’s just impossible.

A fire taking out electrical systems is possible, maybe. But the odds of the pilots having numerous electrical problems, and then taking the aircraft where it ended up are astronomically small. They would have to lose all electrical, then change course, lose course, then somehow just fly the plane in a direction they knew they wouldn’t find anything for a few hours?

I think Strybjorn has the most plausible, if still uncommon, answer. Someone, be that a pilot or someone else, for whatever the reason, got into the cockpit, knew how to keep others locked out. Knew how to fly well enough, knew how to shut off the transponder and ACARS… and here’s my best guess - planned on hijacking or taking it somewhere, or crashing it somewhere, but got lost over the ocean and eventually it crashed, or ran out of fuel and crashed.

 

[stutue]

Its certainly starting to look that way, I agree.

Its about time I went for a drink with my neighbour. He's a long-haul pilot. I'll report back with his thoughts...

 

[search]

With MH370s flightpath there is no possible way this happened. No way. A plane doesn’t automatically pick somewhere remote to fly where nothing is and then change course, altitude and speed a few times in the process. It’s just impossible.

A fire taking out electrical systems is possible, maybe. But the odds of the pilots having numerous electrical problems, and then taking the aircraft where it ended up are astronomically small. They would have to lose all electrical, then change course, lose course, then somehow just fly the plane in a direction they knew they wouldn’t find anything for a few hours?

didn't the plane turn towards Langkawi? That was said in a number of media reports

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Not in a direct path it appears. And that's obviously not where it ended up. Keep in mind, it wasn't a straight ahead ghost flight after it passed that point. Someone was flying it.

To correct my previous note, the flight attendant that tried to save Helios 522, Andreas Prodromou, actually did have a commercial pilot's license, but he had no 737 training and entered the cockpit just as the first engine flamed out. Had there been enough fuel, there's a good chance he could have landed it with ATC and ground support. The guy's almost a hero, really. Sad.

 

[hiero2]

ELTs are required in all such commercial a/c but radio waves do not propogate well through water. This is why submarines have to surface to communicate with "HQ." There also would have been at least two acoustic "pingers" (one in the CVR and another in the ELT) that are supposed to activate when submerged in water. The problem is that absent a less vague idea where it might have gone down, there's simply too much ocean and too few search vessels to stand any reasonable statistical probability of finding them before their batteries all expire.

There also is a remote possibility the signalling devices all could have been destroyed in the impact. Their design limit is 3400 Gs, and this impact would have generated considerably less than that, but there's a lot of CF in a 777 fuselage, and that stuff gets awfully sharp when it shatters. And bizarre stuff happens when you fly into an incompressible liquid at 90% of the speed of sound. But considering the size of the potential search area, Amsterhammer's characterization of the odds it ever will be found are spot-on.

The simplest explanation that encompasses all the known facts and requires no supernatural or extraterrestrial intervention (Occam's razor) is that at least one of the flight deck crew deliberately flew the a/c out of radar contact until it was almost out of fuel, then flew it straight down into the water. Deliberately nose-dived at full throttles, it could have hit the water at approaching 700 knots (1300 kph, 360 m/s), plunging to a good 100 meters depth before the momentum at impact was spent, and leaving millions of tiny pieces too small to hint they once were part of a 300,000 kg a/c.

Well - that is far from a simple explanation - given that said hypothetical pilot would have to restrain all other flight crew for some time - since the dive did not happen when they turned. Quite possibly have to restrain some pax, too? Not a job for one guy.

However, in my thinking, there was more going on somewhere here than meets the eye. I do think the UAV search would have found something in the search area if it existed. I do think that the search crew(s) are good enough to triangulate a search area based on the pings.

They didn't find it - it's not there. What were the pings? If they were from the plane's flight recorders, but the plane is not there?

I know it was "said" by a fictional character, but Conan Doyle's Holmes' quote here is apropos - when you've ruled out the impossible - whatever is left, however improbable . . .

There aren't any KISS answers here any more.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Well - that is far from a simple explanation - given that said hypothetical pilot would have to restrain all other flight crew for some time - since the dive did not happen when they turned. Quite possibly have to restrain some pax, too? Not a job for one guy.

That's the part we don't know about though. Here are a few questions I still haven't heard anyone answer with clarity:

• Could one of the pilots, while the other pilot was going to the bathroom, lock the door, and change the code on the lock keeping everyone out?

• Once that door is locked, just how impossible is it to break it down, or get through the bulkhead? Are there any tools on board, no matter how primitive, that with a good 4-5 hours a motivated group of people could get through?

• Is access to the 777's avionics through the floor in the cockpit, only? If so, the pilot could have disabled some of them. Though this isn't easy, if he studied up with a well prepared plan, he could have.

• Is there no possible way for anyone in the cabin to use any communications device to contact anyone outside the aircraft? Did anyone try? Do authorities know?

• Just how thorough of a background check did authorities in China and Malaysia do on the passengers?

• Is Malaysian Airlines 100% certain they know who was on board? Hence, there wasn't some sort of stowaway, someone who faked their identity, or got on board as a deadheading pilot or flight attendant that wasn't on the manifest?

• The "pings" that the detectors heard, had a radius of detection of...how far exactly? No one seems to know, or want to say. Are we talking about a 100sq mile radius? Or a 1000sq mile radius?

 

[stutue]

I think there has been a bit of a game of brinkmanship Going on here in terms of what else might be revealed by revealing information. Would nations be honest about what they tracked, or didn't track, on their radars?

They might prefer to hide their air defence inadequacies, or indeed strengths.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

That's the part we don't know about though. Here are a few questions I still haven't heard anyone answer with clarity:

• Could one of the pilots, while the other pilot was going to the bathroom, lock the door, and change the code on the lock keeping everyone out?

• Once that door is locked, just how impossible is it to break it down, or get through the bulkhead? Are there any tools on board, no matter how primitive, that with a good 4-5 hours a motivated group of people could get through?...

Yes, in the post-9/11 world, the occupants of the cockpit can prevent the door being unlocked. The head Flight Attendant has an emergency entry code, for use in the event both pilots should become incapacitated, but it works with a time delay. A cockpit alarm advises the override code has been entered, allowing some seconds before the door unlocks. The occupants can countermand it any time before the delay period lapses.

For obvious security reasons, no one is going to say just how "hard" the new cockpit door is. They allegedly are bulletproof, probably are made from carbonfibre and kevlar (or close cousins), with steel reinforcements at the hinges, the strike plate and the peep hole. A door that did weigh less than 15 kilos pre-9/11 now weighs about 55.

Whether anyone could break through the door given 4-5 hours, in this case, is immaterial because no one in the cabin will be conscious for more than a few minutes after the captain dumps (depressurises) the cabin. Since the advent of the pressurised aeroplane, pilots have recognised that their most effective defense against cockpit invasion (provided they are high enough) is to don their O2 masks and vent all cabin pressure outboard.

MH370 was cruising @FL350. Time of useful consciousness (without supplemental O2) at that altitude is 60 seconds, at the outside. All cabin O2 masks (including those of the the Flight Attendants) are of the "partial rebreather" type, which progressively loses effectiveness above FL250. @FL350, they deliver an O2 mole fraction too low to maintain consciousness for an extended period, even if sedentary.

This was a concession to cost-controls in the expectation that that the pilots' immediate response to a loss of cabin pressure would be to initiate an emergency descent to a more hospitable altitude. The problem, in this case, was that the pilot(s) had other plans.

Expert claims Flight MH370 pilot 'deliberately turned off passengers' oxygen supply' before ditching into sea

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Re:

Did MH370 pilot fly into the ocean in a 'perfect' nose-dive? New theory suggests entering the water at 90 degrees would have kept the plane intact, which is why no wreckage has been found

* Vertical entry would have caused the least resistance, say researchers
* Mathematician: 'Forensics strongly supports MH370 plunged in nosedive'
* Team arrived at findings after studying scenarios on a supercomputer

By Simon Tomlinson for MailOnline

Published: 05:10 EST, 10 June 2015 | Updated: 07:32 EST, 10 June 2015

Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 vanished without a trace because the pilot pulled off a perfect nose-dive into the ocean, a new theory suggests.

A team of mathematicians concluded that the Boeing 777 must have plunged into the water at a 90-degree angle after analysing a series of computer simulations.

They say it is the only scenario that would have kept the aircraft intact and explains why no wreckage or oil has been found since it disappeared in March last year with 239 people on board.

Mathematician Goong Chen, who led the research team, said: 'The true final moments of MH370 are likely to remain a mystery until someday when its black box is finally recovered and decoded.

'But forensics strongly supports that MH370 plunged into the ocean in a nosedive.'

The researchers used a supercomputer to test five different landing scenarios including a gliding water entry like the one performed by Captain Chesley Sullenberger when he landed a U.S. Airways flight safely on the Hudson River in what is known as 'the miracle of the Hudson'.

However, this was discounted with MH370 because 'ditching a large airplane on the open Indian Ocean generally would involve waves of height several meters or more, easily causing breakup and the leak of debris.'

The team, from Texas A&M University at Qatar, said the most likely scenario was a vertical or very steep entry because it would have caused the least resistance – much like when a high diver enters the water with little splash.

This would have allowed it to remain completely intact before sinking to the bottom of the Indian Ocean.

The findings come a week after desperate families had their hopes dashed when officials announced they had virtually given up the search for the missing flight.

Salvage experts said the hunt would not be extended beyond the current search zone in the southern Indian Ocean despite earlier promises that it would be.

In April, the Australian-led Joint Agency Co-ordination Centre said if no clues to the aircraft's resting place were found in the current search area, the hunt would be doubled in size to cover 46,300 square miles.

But in a shock announcement, the agency said that governments involved in the search had agreed that in the absence of credible new information that leads to a specific location 'there will be no further expansion of the search area.'

Numerous false alarms have been raised since the aircraft vanished in March last year and those that have been followed up have proved to be worthless.

The search has included checks in remote islands in the Indian Ocean and in jungle and desert areas, stretching from the wastelands of Asia to the deep uncharted waters south west of Australia

[lots of maps and videos and such at the linked webpage]

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Interesting theory. I would then wonder if the plane ditched more north along the glidepath than what they are thinking. That is, the pilot didn't depressurize and have everyone go to sleep. Instead, he flew along for a while, until he knew he was way, way out over the ocean, roughly the last satellite "ping", then did the nose dive.

One of the great mysteries of the 21st century so far, that's for sure. I have to wonder if it will eventually be a Robert Ballard type search that finds it.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I read this a while ago.
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/could-this-tiny-maldives-island-hold-the-key-to-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370/story-e6frfq80-1227291857855
Most believable explanation imo

 

[ray j willings]

I would like to chip in ....I told my Wife quite some time ago That Malaysia would start being in the headlines. The US want Governments on-board with their polices and political agenda. Malaysia does not tow the US line. The Missing plane is just one of many stories from Malaysia that have been in the headlines in recent times.
Look at the story that is all over the news right now. Its the nudists breaking the law in Malaysia.
Put that story in to context ,,,,its a nothing story. It would not make page 7 in a newspaper on any given day.
Did you know in Malaysia they showed a documentary on TV at peak time explaining how 9/11 was a US government inside job.
The media's job now is to show Malaysia in a bad light and chip away at those in charge for a US friendly regime.
You may think I have gone a conspiracy theory to far but It is Starting to happen and you watch , we will see more stories coming out that will try and make Malaysia look bad and their leaders.
As for the Plane I have no idea. Seems to be a lot of miss information....Something is not right. There a lots of ways to track a Plane besides the usual communication. Engine transmitter data etc Something going on here IMO. Someone knows exactly what happened to that plane.
The news media were trying to set up the Pilot as a patsy ,,,,that's Bulls%%%.

 

[HelgeBlendet]

Re:

I read this a while ago.
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/could-this-tiny-maldives-island-hold-the-key-to-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370/story-e6frfq80-1227291857855
Most believable explanation imo

Maybe, but it seems fish-y to me:

“It was unusual, very unusual. It was big and it was flying low. It was a holiday (Saturday) and most people had gone to bed after praying.”

So, "gone to bed after praying" sounds like evening/night-time.

IT manager Ahmed Shiyaam, 34, said he was riding with his daughter that morning when he stopped and looked up at the sky and saw a plane fly low.

So, morning it is.

“It was very big, very noisy, flying low. Later that afternoon on the beach I was told the news about the missing plane. I think this is the same flight.”

Can't be evening/night according to the last guy quoted.

Maybe they go to bed after morning prayers on a Saturday/Sabbath.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Part of an aeroplane wing which has been identified as a "flaperon" from a Boeing 777 was found washed ashore on Reunion Island, almost 4000 km wide of MH370's flight path, and almost all the way to Madagascar. Some sources claim MH370 is the only possible source for the debris.

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

and now luggage

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11489527

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Boeing engineers have examined the flaperon and confirmed it is from a 777. And they stated that MH370 is the only missing 777 in that vicinity.

 

[ray j willings]

How would you feel if your relative or loved one died on that flight ,the way these things are chucked out in the air leaving the relatives in a awful position,,,, ,some thing not right about this whole situation. Its been handled really badly.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

How would you feel if your relative or loved one died on that flight ,the way these things are chucked out in the air leaving the relatives in a awful position,,,, ,some thing not right about this whole situation. Its been handled really badly.

It will come out in due time but the Russian's and ISIS hijacked this plane and have it in the Himalaya's at a super double secret hide out. They are going to use it to fly it into Meca, to start the end of all battles between the Lexus clan vs the Infinity clan. No doubt about it. Putin went out to see GW bush a month before this all went down to get W's approval. Without it they were worried how the Chinese might react. Now that they have the bird they are calling up North Korea to see if they want to buy it from them at a discounted rate.

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

Re: Re:

How would you feel if your relative or loved one died on that flight ,the way these things are chucked out in the air leaving the relatives in a awful position,,,, ,some thing not right about this whole situation. Its been handled really badly.

It will come out in due time but the Russian's and ISIS hijacked this plan and have it in the Himalaya's at a super double secret hide out. They are going to use it to fly it into Meca, to start the end of all battles between the Lexus clan vs the Infinity clan. No doubt about it. Putin went out to see GW bush a month before this all went down to get W's approval. Without it they were worried how the Chinese might react. Now that they have the bird they are calling up North Korea to see if they want to buy it from them at a discounted rate.

freaky.....

my mothers brothers step sisters aunties cousins mate who lives round the corner told me that their hairdresser was chatting to this dude the other day who knew a bloke who was drinking at the same pub and over heard the exact same thing

who would of thunk it

i love a good coincidence

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I had a dream last night that was almost identical to that, only that Putin was chanelling the spirit of a drunk Boris Yeltsin. And it was a reincarnation of the Shah of Iran that was working with ISIS, and they were hiding the 777 in the nuclear reactor facility in Iran, which is why they won't let John Kerry in there.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

I had a dream last night that was almost identical to that, only that Putin was chanelling the spirit of a drunk Boris Yeltsin. And it was a reincarnation of the Shah of Iran that was working with ISIS, and they were hiding the 777 in the nuclear reactor facility in Iran, which is why they won't let John Kerry in there.

That does explain why they won't let John Kerry in there. So glad you had that dream.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re:

I had a dream last night that was almost identical to that, only that Putin was chanelling the spirit of a drunk Boris Yeltsin. And it was a reincarnation of the Shah of Iran that was working with ISIS, and they were hiding the 777 in the nuclear reactor facility in Iran, which is why they won't let John Kerry in there.

This dream of yours - was Putin wearing a shirt?

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Barnacles on debris could provide clues to missing MH370 - experts

Possibly could tell if the debris is too old to be from MH370, less likely it could give clues to the course it took.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Re:

Well, if it's from a 777, it's definitely MH370, as there have been very few incidents with the aircraft. In fact, the nearest one some 8,000 miles away, shot down over the Ukraine-Russia border. The other two were landing mishaps at airports.

The latest chunk of metal however thought to be perhaps from the plane, has been ruled out.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Wing part washed up on beach is from missing MH-370, Malaysia confirms

Officials state it could be weeks or months before any meaningful forensic information is developed from examination of the debris.