Male Cyclist of the year (2014)?

[GoodTimes]

Climbing talent = Mountains = Tour de France =/= Liège

I am confused as to what we are even arguing about now! Let's agree to disagree... I'm going for a bike ride

 

[Bushman]

I never said LBL was more prestigious. I heavily implied that it's harder to dominate the hilly classics than it is to dominate the cobbled classics. Why? Because the first has a deeper field.

I agree that Liege has a deeper and more equal field. But stronger field, I dont think so.

 

[Bushman]

Bradley Wiggins is older than Cancellara and can still win the WC TT, so age isn't an excuse for Cancellara.

Complete nonsense. Riders mature and age differently. Cancellara was, a well as Boonen for example, was quite young when he burst on to the big scene. Wiggins wasn't.

And as another poster mentioned, he hasn't been focusing on tt's for quite some time.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I agree that Liege has a deeper and more equal field. But stronger field, I dont think so.

I agree somewhat with this.

In the end the top really defines the strength of the field.

Sprinters: Cav, Kittel and Greipel really represents the field. We really only need these three to define the field as being superior. Sure the rest of the sprinters adds value and can win here and there, but they don't define the field strength.

We are probably blessed with having two of the best cobbles riders in the peloton right now ( perhaps both decreasing in strength), which makes the field looks less deep. However the strength is clearly in play still.

These days the GT field looks considerable stronger than a few years back, even though the depth have been good all along.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I never said LBL was more prestigious. I heavily implied that it's harder to dominate the hilly classics than it is to dominate the cobbled classics. Why? Because the first has a deeper field.

Not sure that's true.
Having 3 hilly classics in 7 days, as opposed to two doesn't help either.
Yet we've had dominate hilly performances from Rebellin, Gilbert and Valverde in recent seasons.

Anyhow, good to see you are back and your viewpoint is as "flexible" as ever!

 

[Jspear]

I am confused as to what we are even arguing about now! Let's agree to disagree... I'm going for a bike ride

Good post!

 

[El Pistolero]

Not sure that's true.
Having 3 hilly classics in 7 days, as opposed to two doesn't help either.
Yet we've had dominate hilly performances from Rebellin, Gilbert and Valverde in recent seasons.

Anyhow, good to see you are back and your viewpoint is as "flexible" as ever!

There are 4 cobbled classics and 3 Ardennes classics.

Rebellin and Gilbert only dominated for a season. And Valverde always seems to mess up for himself.

The amount of seasons Boonen and/or Cancellara were the strongest in their classics is basically all of them.

 

[murali]

In terms of progression: Kwiato.

In terms of achievements: Contador

In terms of points () Valverde

 

[Echoes]

Ah, the ranking where an 8th place in P-R is better than a Tour stage win...

edit: and better than winning Züri Metzgete as well!

1) You should learn to read.

2) If a crap flat stage win at crap Bore de France is a bigger physical performance than an 8th spot at the Queen of the Classic, then I'm a banana. What imbecility!

I agree that Liege has a deeper and more equal field. But stronger field, I dont think so.

Most certainly not.

Who's the better rider of Terpstra and Gerrans? Well, give me the best time-trialist, I'll give you the best rider. So Terpstra.

Paris-Roubaix is a race in which the best rouleurs (Cancellara, Terpstra, Wiggins) defy defy lesser rouleurs who compensate with bike handling skills (Boonen, Vanmarcke,etc.). This year, we had four real ITT specialist in the top10: Terpstra, Cancellara, Wiggins & Thomas. Even Langeveld is not a mug in ITT's. In a near future, I can see Phinney and Boom mixing it up with the best. Even in recent years, strong ITT'ists like Chavanel "The Machine" made good performances in Roubaix. Only Martin does not have the balls to race it.

Paris-Roubaix is a race for hard men and only hard men can win it. The only race in which the main obstacles are flat! Actually the lesser rider don't even start it because it's too hard. In GT's the non-specialists still start and make it to the end but in Paris-Roubaix. A race "reserved only for the strongest" said the commentator of "A Sunday in Hell". It definitely is the hardest race in the world. And the greatest! (I'm not in a position to discuss with Sir Bradley )

Take Van Summeren and Gilbert for example? Who has the better palmares? More probably Gilbert. But a lot more classics have a course that suits him. Who is the hardest man? The best at killing watts?

I insist on the fact that the label "Monument" is a fallacy. Before the World Tour, the UCI had started the World Cup, by which even the Hamburg classic was equal to Paris-Roubaix. The Superprestige before the World Cup rated Paris-Roubaix way higher than any other classics. It shoud be conceded that the Superprestige outrageously favoured the French races but in the case of Paris-Roubaix, it's most definitely justified.

 

[Netserk]

1) You should learn to read.

2) If a crap flat stage win at crap Bore de France is a bigger physical performance than an 8th spot at the Queen of the Classic, then I'm a banana. What imbecility!

My bad apparently winning Züri Metzgete and winning a stage in the Tour (and subsequently wearing the yellow jersey for a week) are both equal to an 8th place in Roubaix.

Fabian Cancellara
8 Nations 2002 1
9 Nations 2003 1
St Tour de France 2004 3
4 Paris-Roubaix 2004 5
4 De Panne 2004 1
8 Worlds ITT 2004 1
2 Luxembourg 2005 1
3 Worlds ITT 2005 2
4 Ghent-Wevelgem 2005 2
4 Hamburg 2005 1
8 Paris-Roubaix 2005 3
Worlds ITT 2006 4
Paris-Roubaix 2006 12
5 Zurich 2006 1
6 Flanders 2006 2
6 Ghent-Wevelgem 2006 2
Worlds ITT 2007 4
2 St. France 2007 6
2 Harelbeke 2007 1
19 Paris-Roubaix 2007 2
Olympics ITT 2008 4
Milan Sanremo 2008 10
Tirreno 2008 3
Montepaschi Eroica 2008 3
2 Paris-Roubaix 2008 5
2 Olympics 2008 2
4 California 2008 1
Worlds ITT 2009 4
2 St Vuelta 2009 4
St France 2009 3
5 Worlds 2009 4
Worlds ITT 2010 4
Flanders 2010 9
Paris-Roubaix 2010 12
Harelbeke 2010 2
Oman 2010 2
2 St France 2010 6
Harelbeke 2011 2
2 Milan Sanremo 2011 4
2 Paris-Roubaix 2011 5
3 Flanders 2011 4
5 Montepaschi 2011 1
6 Oman 2011 1
3 ITT Worlds 2011 2
4 Worlds 2011 4
10 Oman 2012 1
Montepaschi Eroica 2012 3
2 Milan Sanremo 2012 4
St France 2012 3
7 Olympics ITT 2012 1
4 Montepaschi 2013 1
3 Milan-Sanremo 2013 4
Harelbeke 2013 2
Tour of Flanders 2013 9
Paris-Roubaix 2013 12
St Vuelta 2013 2
3 ITT Worlds 2013 2
10 Worlds 2013 2
6 Montepaschi Strade Bianche 2014 1
2 Milan Sanremo 2014 4
9 Harelbeke 2014 1
Tour of Flanders 2014 9
3 Paris-Roubaix 2014 5
11 Worlds 2014 2
Fabian Cancellara 224

Paolo Bettini
25 Italy 1997 2
3 Laigueglia 1998 1
7 Italy 1998 4
8 Zurich 1998 1
8 Med Tour 1998 1
2 Milan-Turin 1999 1
4 Zurich 1999 1
5 Liège Bastogne 1999 4
9 Lombardy 1999 2
Liège Bastogne 2000 10
St France 2000 3
4 Paris-Tours 2000 2
4 San Sebastian 2000 1
9 Olympics 2000 2
9 Worlds 2000 2
10 Lombardy 2000 2
10 Pantalica 2000 1
Zurich 2001 3
2 Worlds 2001 4
5 Milan Sanremo 2001 4
5 Tre Valli 2001 1
5 Lazio 2001 1
6 Hamburg 2001 1
15 Liège-Bastogne 2001 2
Liège Bastogne 2002 10
Lazio 2002 2
2 Zurich 2002 1
4 Hamburg 2002 1
4 Tirreno 2002 1
4 Harelbeke 2002 1
5 Ghent-Ghent 2002 1
7 San Sebastian 2002 1
8 Amstel 2002 1
8 Laigueglia 2002 1
Milan-Sanremo 2003 10
Hamburg 2003 2
San Sebastian 2003 2
Med Tour 2003 2
3 Zurich 2003 1
4 Worlds 2003 4
4 Laigueglia 2003 1
5 Tirreno 2003 1
5 Haut Var 2003 1
8 Emily 2003 1
Olympics 2004 6
Tirreno 2004 3
2 Hamburg 2004 1
2 San Sebastian 2004 1
2 Zurich 2004 1
3 Amstel 2004 2
5 Paris-Brussels 2004 1
6 Paris-Tours 2004 2
6 Med Tour 2004 1
8 Milan-Sanremo 2004 2
9 Flanders 2004 2
Lombardy 2005 10
Zurich 2005 3
St Giro 2005 2
St Vuelta 2005 2
4 Liège Bastogne 2005 4
13 Worlds 2005 2
Worlds 2006 9
Lombardy 2006 10
St Giro 2006 2
St Vuelta 2006 2
2 Liège Bastogne 2006 4
7 Flanders 2006 2
8 Amstel 2006 2
10 Laigueglia 2006 1
Worlds 2007 9
St Vuelta 2007 2
4 Liège Bastogne 2007 4
7 Amstel 2007 2
7 Hamburg 2007 1
2 St Vuelta 2008 4
4 San Sebastian 2008 1
9 Liège Bastogne 2008 2
Paolo Bettini 203

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Let's not pretend as if all rider's who target cobbled races are just random specialists whose only skill is riding on cobbles. Almost every rider who does well in cobbled classics is a good TTist or sprinter.

Look at the top 10 of PR this year: Terpstra, Degenkolb, Cancellara, Vanmarcke, Stybar, Sagan, Thomas, Langeveld, Wiggins, Boonen.

Look at the top 10 of LBL: Gerrans, Valverde, Kwiatkowski, Caruso, Pozzovivo, Slagter, Kreuziger, Gilbert, Moreno, Bardet

I think most people will agree the PR top 10 has a higher quality right? It certainly seems to be impossible to argue that PR has a less diverse field with only specialists. I mean, PR has almost everything; good sprinters, world class TTists, a TDF winner, even a CX world champ. LBL really doesn't beat that.

 

[cineteq]

Look at the top 10 of PR this year: Terpstra, Degenkolb, Cancellara, Vanmarcke, Stybar, Sagan, Thomas, Langeveld, Wiggins, Boonen.

Look at the top 10 of LBL: Gerrans, Valverde, Kwiatkowski, Caruso, Pozzovivo, Slagter, Kreuziger, Gilbert, Moreno, Bardet

I think most people will agree the PR top 10 has a higher quality right?

The typical rhetorical question of a classicomano

 

[Miburo]

Let's not pretend as if all rider's who target cobbled races are just random specialists whose only skill is riding on cobbles. Almost every rider who does well in cobbled classics is a good TTist or sprinter.

Look at the top 10 of PR this year: Terpstra, Degenkolb, Cancellara, Vanmarcke, Stybar, Sagan, Thomas, Langeveld, Wiggins, Boonen.

Look at the top 10 of LBL: Gerrans, Valverde, Kwiatkowski, Caruso, Pozzovivo, Slagter, Kreuziger, Gilbert, Moreno, Bardet

I think most people will agree the PR top 10 has a higher quality right? It certainly seems to be impossible to argue that PR has a less diverse field with only specialists. I mean, PR has almost everything; good sprinters, world class TTists, a TDF winner, even a CX world champ. LBL really doesn't beat that.

TDF winner? This hasn't happened for ages, don't use that as an example besides wiggins got that tdf as a present lol And CX world champ don't mean anything. The same with world class TT, the only world class one who was relevant for the past 10 years is canc.

Terpstra ain't world class ITT at all.

 

[Netserk]

Wiggins won the WCITT this year...

 

[El Pistolero]

How many times has Wiggins ridden Roubaix in the last 10 years?

You know I love Boonen, but I hate that Turgot was second to him in Roubaix in 2012. I'd rather see him beat world class riders, which I'm sure he was capable of that day.

A victory always means more if you beat the best riders. Boonen's Roubaix win in 2008 where he outsprinted Cancellara with 10 bike lengths was amazing. I'm sure Nibali fans will disagree with me on this.

 

[Miburo]

Wiggins won the WCITT this year...

What elpist said...

The field this year was good but that's only 1 year, look at the field from the past years, just terrible.

Boonen and Canc crushed the field, only times someone else won was if they eliminated themself (crashing or riding against those 2). 2011 and 2007.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

How many times has Wiggins rode Roubaix in the last 10 years?

4 times and I think he intends to ride it a couple more.

TDF winner? This hasn't happened for ages, don't use that as an example besides wiggins got that tdf as a present lol And CX world champ don't mean anything. The same with world class TT, the only world class one who was relevant for the past 10 years is canc.

Terpstra ain't world class ITT at all.

I don't know, I think Cancellara, Wiggins, Phinney, Chavanel, Terpstra and Boom is a pretty decent ITT field. Maybe add Thomas and EBH p).

Degenkolb, Sagan, Kristoff, Hushovd, EBH p) is a pretty decent field for a difficult sprint stage.

Oh and if we count RVV and the smaller cobbled classics as well, you can add Gilbert, Voeckler and a few others as well.

Yes, you have specialists who don't do much outside of cobbled classics, like Turgot and Vanmarcke. But hey, there are some people riding hilly classics who can't do anything except uphill sprinting as well.

I just don't see how the argument that PR or the cobbled classics in general somehow have lower fields and are dominated by specialists works out.

 

[El Pistolero]

Like I said, the field has recently become better with Sagan, Degenkolb and Kristoff. Wiggins has only featured once in Roubaix. Before that he simply was a mediocre road cyclist.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Not P-R, not LBL, but MSR has the deepest field.

 

[thehook]

Just to name a few off the top of my head. Hinault (won) Lemond & Wiggo (did well). They all won the Tour and rode PR.

And of course "The Cannibal"

Wiggo I think has a real good shot at winning it IMHO. Nibali also showed tremendous acumen on the stones this year. And I would not put him out of winning/contending one day.

 

[scholar]

Not P-R, not LBL, but MSR has the deepest field.

Interesting call. I could be persuaded. I was thinking Lombardia, though, at least over the last few years.

 

[Echoes]

4 times and I think he intends to ride it a couple more.

I don't know, I think Cancellara, Wiggins, Phinney, Chavanel, Terpstra and Boom is a pretty decent ITT field. Maybe add Thomas and EBH p).
[...]

I just don't see how the argument that PR or the cobbled classics in general somehow have lower fields and are dominated by specialists works out.

As always I have to second Maarten.

Wiggins raced Paris-Roubaix 6 times in his career, overall, if I'm not mistaken.

If we were to look at the time-trialists who performed in the last few years in Paris-Roubaix we'd stumble on Ekimov, Devolder and of course Hushovd.

This year the only decent time-trialist in the Liège top10 is Kwiatkowski but he's no Cancellara and no Wiggins. In recent years, you had Rui Costa but he's no Cancellara either (besides he's raced Paris-Roubaix ).

There's not even a discussion possible. In a near future when Cancellara is retired, there's gonna be Phinney and Boom, mark my words. Paris-Roubaix is a race for time-trialists. It's almost always been. It's the hardest, so obviously only the hardest men can win it...

Nibali also showed tremendous acumen on the stones this year. And I would not put him out of winning/contending one day.

This poor little stage has nothing to do with THE Paris-Roubaix. Hope this helps!

 

[Jspear]

As always I have to second Maarten.

Wiggins raced Paris-Roubaix 6 times in his career, overall, if I'm not mistaken.

If we were to look at the time-trialists who performed in the last few years in Paris-Roubaix we'd stumble on Ekimov, Devolder and of course Hushovd.

This year the only decent time-trialist in the Liège top10 is Kwiatkowski but he's no Cancellara and no Wiggins. In recent years, you had Rui Costa but he's no Cancellara either (besides he's raced Paris-Roubaix ).

There's not even a discussion possible. In a near future when Cancellara is retired, there's gonna be Phinney and Boom, mark my words. Paris-Roubaix is a race for time-trialists. It's almost always been. It's the hardest, so obviously only the hardest men can win it...



This poor little stage has nothing to do with THE Paris-Roubaix. Hope this helps!

Cancellara and Sagan sure had a hard time (compared to Nibali) on this poor little stage. Must not have been hard enough.

 

[Echoes]

Of course it wasn't hard enough...

 

[ILovecycling]

Cancellara and Sagan sure had a hard time (compared to Nibali) on this poor little stage. Must not have been hard enough.

Cancellara was rubbish this year, he didnt have it at PR either.Sagan was dropped after grivko mechanical iirc. (who was riding right in front of him)