Marco Pantani -10 years since his death (pictures of his career)

[Dazed and Confused]

Absolutely, he's a bit too passionate with his opinions at times but he most definitely means them and isn't trolling.

Agree, it would be a mistake to ban him for this.
Instead just ignore his posts on the subject if these bothers.

 

[Echoes]

Echoes, I consider you are baiting, trolling and cruising the boards looking for a fight.

Consider whatever you want, your considerations don't necessarily fit with reality.

I noticed that a poster applauded at a statement that says everybody dopes, all he can do as a reply is entering my private life (while not knowing anything about me). But I am the one looking for a fight?

Do what you want but I think it's pathetic. His avatar (great actor) once said: "C*nts dare everything. That is actually how you recognize hem" Food for thought.

Of course I mean what I'm saying. When I say Pantani was a doper, you think I mean the opposite ???

In the riding - pharma - world of pro - cycling he was and still is an icon, period.

It seems that LeMond fans actually don't care about doping. Just like himself, by the way. I've always known it.

 

[Benotti69]

He is a bit OTT, but he is probably not that far off.

He aint OTT imo, but people put on rose tinted glasses when someone dies.

Pantani was an unrepentant doper. He may have been exciting on a bike, but there may have been clean riders just as exciting that never got the chance to show due to guys like Pantani.

I dont put Pantani on a pedestal, because he took huge amounts of dope to cheat to win. Why would I?

 

[The Hitch]

I don't know, echoes wacky opinions may be genuine, but surely there is a point where calling anyone who disagrees with you - "uneducated" or stupid etc which he does not just in this thread but in every cycling thread he takes part in, becomes worthy of mod interference (a category a number of his posting techniques could fit into)

 

[hiero2]

Absolutely, he's a bit too passionate with his opinions at times but he most definitely means them and isn't trolling.

He may not be trolling, but he is being abusive, rude, and impolitic. Not to mention his posts (in THIS THREAD) appear to be inconsistent in message. And then spitting in the face of the mods. Yeah - I think "cruisin' the boards just lookin' for a fight" might just cover it.

 

[Cyivel]

He may not be trolling, but he is being abusive, rude, and impolitic. Not to mention his posts (in THIS THREAD) appear to be inconsistent in message. And then spitting in the face of the mods. Yeah - I think "cruisin' the boards just lookin' for a fight" might just cover it.

As I said he does get a bit to passionate which I guess can lead to some of the things you have mentioned, I think that when he sees something he disagrees with he has to take a stand and can't let it slide.

Apologies for the off topic posts.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

He may not be trolling, but he is being abusive, rude, and impolitic. Not to mention his posts (in THIS THREAD) appear to be inconsistent in message. And then spitting in the face of the mods. Yeah - I think "cruisin' the boards just lookin' for a fight" might just cover it.

While I don't agree with Echoes, I think many of the regular posters here missed his message. I think all Echoes was saying was that Pantani (in his opinion) was not immortalized in life for his accomplishments, but is being immortalized in death. And given Pantani's doping and use of drugs in his personal life, he is not the best of role models. That is an opinion that many people share

It is easy to get into verbal dogfighting in the Clinic because many posters take umbrage to any nuance in a post that they disagree with and then beat it to death. Some people just cannot handle criticism of their point of view.

I suspect fans who are addicted to cycling see in Pantani a personality - flamboyant, charismatic, and devil may care. This kind of personality endears "bad boys" to a large slug of fans. Lets face it a large slug of cycling fans are not your typical "Boy Scout" next door.

But to ignore or forget the tragedy of this wonderful personality and talent and the demons he had to deal with would be a mistake.

His life and his reputation in death must by put in context. The real tragedy of Pantani was the failure of friends, colleagues and cyclists to help him in his time of need. The way he died, alone, is a lesson to us all to be more human, understanding and empathetic. His death need not have occurred.

 

[ultimobici]

While I don't agree with Echoes, I think many of the regular posters here missed his message. I think all Echoes was saying was that Pantani (in his opinion) was not immortalized in life for his accomplishments, but is being immortalized in death. And given Pantani's doping and use of drugs in his personal life, he is not the best of role models. That is an opinion that many people share

It is easy to get into verbal dogfighting in the Clinic because many posters take umbrage to any nuance in a post that they disagree with and then beat it to death. Some people just cannot handle criticism of their point of view.

I don't think that this quote can be misinterpreted due to any nuance at all. It is simply inaccurate to say that Pantani was forgotten by 2003 and that his death somehow brought him belated fame.

When he was still alive in 2003 I was already frequenting cycling forums. NOBODY remembered him but die-hard fans. His death changed a lot. "It's better to burn out than to fade away", said Neil Young. I guess it applies for what Pantani has become after his death. A drug-addicted icon.

Even shortly after his death nobody would consider him a top champion from the nineties. It all gradually developed.

The CN article makes me wanna puke. I mean 5 days ago was the 5th anniversary of Frederiek Nolf's departure and nobody got moved but Pantani ...

Pantani took dope to the excess and died from it, period. He ain't no example for the youth. May he be forgotten !

Pantani was front page news in English language magazines all through the 1990's. That his death gave his career history an added permanence in fans' memories is in no doubt, but to claim he only gained prominence after his death is disingenuous at the very least.

I suspect fans who are addicted to cycling see in Pantani a personality - flamboyant, charismatic, and devil may care. This kind of personality endears "bad boys" to a large slug of fans. Lets face it a large slug of cycling fans are not your typical "Boy Scout" next door.

But to ignore or forget the tragedy of this wonderful personality and talent and the demons he had to deal with would be a mistake.

His life and his reputation in death must by put in context. The real tragedy of Pantani was the failure of friends, colleagues and cyclists to help him in his time of need. The way he died, alone, is a lesson to us all to be more human, understanding and empathetic. His death need not have occurred.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Pantani’s agent Manuela Ronchi was the last to read out a message, stunning everyone by quoting what Pantani had scribbled on nine pages of his passport a few months previously. It was a confused defence against those who had demonised him and accused him of doping.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pantanis-final-journey

Anyone know of a(n English) translation of that message?

 

[roundabout]

I don't think that this quote can be misinterpreted due to any nuance at all. It is simply inaccurate to say that Pantani was forgotten by 2003 and that his death somehow brought him belated fame.



Pantani was front page news in English language magazines all through the 1990's. That his death gave his career history an added permanence in fans' memories is in no doubt, but to claim he only gained prominence after his death is disingenuous at the very least.

Nope, glory is fleeting.

2000 Tour - 2003 Giro he was mostly seen getting dropped or getting a mention about how badly he did.

 

[Avoriaz]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pantanis-final-journey

Anyone know of a(n English) translation of that message?

It's on Pantanis Wiki page

 

[lean mean &green]

Pantani was an unrepentant doper. He may have been exciting on a bike, but there may have been clean riders just as exciting that never got the chance to show due to guys like Pantani.

I dont put Pantani on a pedestal, because he took huge amounts of dope to cheat to win. Why would I?

+1
My thoughts pretty closely match yours. I understand why others have reverence for MP but I'm mostly indifferent.

I think MP scored points with a lot of people b/c he stood up to LA. Those same people probably don't realize the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.

 

[gooner]

Matt Rendell on Newstalk tonight.

http://www.newstalk.ie/player/podca...hlights/45807/2/Matt_Rendell_on_Marco_Pantani

 

[nomapnocompass]

Velonews interview with Matt Rendall;

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...il&utm_content=2014-02-18&utm_source=iContact

 

[manafana]

+1
My thoughts pretty closely match yours. I understand why others have reverence for MP but I'm mostly indifferent.

I think MP scored points with a lot of people b/c he stood up to LA. Those same people probably don't realize the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.

yeah I agree with this, MP was bit like like the USA during the WW2, they defending again the Nazi's but then again they also dropped a nuck on japan.

 

[Benotti69]

No one has mentioned the bullying of Andrea Tafi by Pantani. Very 'hero-like', no wonder Armstrong liked him so much!

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

No one has mentioned the bullying of Andrea Tafi by Pantani. Very 'hero-like', no wonder Armstrong liked him so much!

Good point B. Especially given the fact Andrea Tafi always rode for the 'Garmin' of his days.

Different times.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

...Pantani was an unrepentant doper. He may have been exciting on a bike, but there may have been clean riders just as exciting that never got the chance to show due to guys like Pantani.

I dont put Pantani on a pedestal, because he took huge amounts of dope to cheat to win. Why would I?

I doubt Pantani ever repented anything in his life, not even to his priest. Why should doping be any different?

Six-Day racers were known to be doping decades before the inaugural TdF. And there is no evidence doping was any less prevalent in the Grand Tours pre-EPO, in the "cocaine and chloroform" era. EPO might be a far more effective drug but cocaine and chloroform were every bit as illegal. Probably the only TdF winner in history who it is widely accepted wasn't on anything -- expect his bicycle -- is Lemond.

Which must make it awfully lonely at the top of your pedestal.

 

[Benotti69]

I doubt Pantani ever repented anything in his life, not even to his priest. Why should doping be any different?

Six-Day racers were known to be doping decades before the inaugural TdF. And there is no evidence doping was any less prevalent in the Grand Tours pre-EPO, in the "cocaine and chloroform" era. EPO might be a far more effective drug but cocaine and chloroform were every bit as illegal. Probably the only TdF winner in history who it is widely accepted wasn't on anything -- expect his bicycle -- is Lemond.

Which must make it awfully lonely at the top of your pedestal.

I dont put anyone on pedestals, least of all myself. I know all my faults and there are many. But painting Pantani as some kind of hero is not a fault of mine.

 

[The Hitch]

I often attack bennoti and think he cheapens my side of certain discussions, but credit where it's due he is damn consistent and sticks to his principles. If he sees bullying omerta breakers as bad he sees it bad in ALL cases and criticisez it equally in ALL cases.

Unlike some on this forum.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I often attack bennoti and think he cheapens my side of certain discussions, but credit where it's due he is damn consistent and sticks to his principles. If he sees bullying omerta breakers as bad he sees it bad in ALL cases and criticisez it equally in ALL cases.

Unlike some on this forum.

Very true but too bad Andrea was also a French Senat Report victim.

 

[Microchip]

And in the news...

Cycling Tips

Report: Pantini 1999 Giro Exclusion Didn't Follow Correct Protocol; Was Mafia Involved?

Cycling Weekly

Was Marco Pantani’s 1999 Giro d’Italia expulsion related to the Mafia?

See Google News for more...

 

[Race Radio]

https://translate.google.com/transl...tolo-a-marco-pantani_2075667.shtml&edit-text=

Mercatone Uno wants 1999 Giro d'Italia awarded to Pantani

 

[Microchip]

He posthumously as well as the team deserves it.

Truth eventually has a way of coming out.

 

[Benotti69]

https://translate.google.com/transl...tolo-a-marco-pantani_2075667.shtml&edit-text=

Mercatone Uno wants 1999 Giro d'Italia awarded to Pantani

And Gotti is prepared to give it to him.

This sport what a joke! How can anyone even consider that there is a tiny bit of fair play involved in cycling if this kind of thing is being considered!!!

Give a doper the win because he died and maybe the mafia were involved. Why not strike the F**king race from the history books, not give it to a doper who died!!!!