Marco Pantani?

[TeoSheva]

great post, you worded it exactly like I feel

thank you

this is the first page of La Gazzetta dello Sport that I was talking about

 

[Carols]

When one reaches my age they have suffered many losses of family, friends and non-human dear ones. Life is full of loss and pain

But I clearly remember where I was and what I was doing 4 times when I heard the news of the death of someone I didn't know. Those times were:

JFK
Secretariat
John Lennon
and

Marco Pantani

He touched my soul forever and I mourn him again today, this the anniversary of his death. May he rest in the peace he never found in life. He gave us so much and will never be forgotten by any who witnessed his Greatness.

RIP Il Pirati

Tomorrow is anniversary 10. Il Pirata lives on in the hearts of those who witnessed him. There are still tears to be shed.

 

[Echoes]

EDIT by sittingbison:
Baiting redacted


PS: How long will this post of mine stay?

 

[gooner]

I was just a Tour only fan in the 90s and started watching the sport as a very young kid in the early part of the decade due to Roche and Kelly. Didn't watch it for 1994 and 1995 when they left so didn't have the fortune to see Marco's performances then. I did come back and watch a bit in 1997 but really got back into it since 1998 when it came to Ireland and here in Cork watching every minute of it live on TV. Therefore, I can only judge his performances from then. His stage wins in the 1998 Tour stand out as a result. Loved his battle also with Ullrich in the stage that Jan won where Pantani said it was like following a motorbike afterwards. Ullrich couldn't drop him and they ended up working together to put more time into Julich coming into the finish.

Remember clearly when I first found out about his death. I remember going to bed very early that night as I was going to pub the next day with friends for an early Arsenal v Chelsea FA Cup game on the Sunday so only knew first thing the next morning when I woke up. I was just shocked and couldn't believe it and wasn't really in the mood for watching sport that day as a result.

Does anyone know when the film on Pantani is coming out? I thought it was meant to be out a while back.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Personally I'm still crying over the death of Mahatma Gandhi. It's normal I'm the sentimental kind.

Pantaloni lives on in my ar*se, I who witnessed him.


PS: How long will this post of mine stay?

Mahatma Ganhi, waaay overrated, Pantani a ****ings hero. you're choices are weird

 

[proffz]

Like every February 14th the first thought can not that be for Him

Has not been born yet another rider who can move me like he did, and I do not think ever will born, just because now Marco is legend, history, myth ... each race in which there was a climb and Marco was an event not to be missed for anything in the world ... people lived throughout the race waiting for "something" that was always happening, but exciting every time in a different way ...

but the thought is not only for the rider Marco, but also for Marco as a man: a man unlucky, from the many accidents that have limited his career, until the sad ending of the bloody February 14

Nine years have passed, I remember like it was yesterday that message on my cell that advised me of his death ... I was incredulous and shocked ... and I remember very well the first page of Gazzetta dello Sport the day after ... a sad page

But Marco he's just gone up, once again, faster than all of us and now look at us from there ... we know that he's there and we will never forget Him

Ciao Pirata!

he was outstanding champion,one of the best i have ever seen uphill
for sure the best of the last 25 years
very exciting to see, when he was racing you knew that something special was going to happen
great man, intelligent, generous, sincere, incredibly strong and weak, so unlucky

i feel sorry for those who do not recognize his greatness

che la terra ti sia lieve, pirata

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

My first lasting cycling memories are of Pantani... My dad told me to watch Indurain but that Italian guy with the bold head, bandana, and awesome climbing style captured my attention. Nothing really comes close. And the guts to attack early on a climb and just keep pushing regardless of what..

Only one of modern day cyclists who seems to have the same spark is Quintana

 

[sittingbison]

...How long will this post of mine stay?

Not long

Watch the baiting please

Cheers
Bison

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

My first lasting cycling memories are of Pantani... My dad told me to watch Indurain but that Italian guy with the bold head, bandana, and awesome climbing style captured my attention. Nothing really comes close. And the guts to attack early on a climb and just keep pushing regardless of what..

Only one of modern day cyclists who seems to have the same spark is Quintana

exactly my feelings. although I feel also quintana doesn't have what pantani has. pantani had 10x more charisma, rujano came a little bit close in his better days.

pantani was a god. best and most natural climber I've ever seen and probably will ever see. on top of that he was a star. a boss. as a kid you would always scan the peloton to see his pink or yellow armada and see if he still wore his bandana. if he'd thrown his bandana off you'd know he was going to go berserk and destroy everyone.

my firts memories of him were in tour 1995. I hated cycling but I was so bored one day I decided to watch like my uncles always watched it and I never understood why. then some bald guy had a flat tire. announcers go nuts. and before I know it. this bald guy starts flying back up the road. he oertakes tens of riders in mere minutes and wins the race. I was hooked from then on

 

[Arnout]

The remarkable thing about Pantani is how mainstream he was. We all know the Italy of Coppi and Bartali, the latter allegedly preventing a civil war. Cycling was mainstream back then, on equal terms with football (soccer). With Pantani it was the same. I lived in Italy for some time and when I told my roommates I loved cycling, they were like "ok". I went to the start of the Giro di Lombardia which started in Milan and they were like "tell me what the Giro di Lombardia is". I explained that it was a one day version of the Giro d'Italia. Ah, the Giro, yeah, they knew that. One of them was from Sicily, but he didn't know Nibali. However, when I asked them about Pantani, they began smiling.
"Ah yes, Pantani, of course we know..."

 

[Carols]

pantani was a god. best and most natural climber I've ever seen and probably will ever see. on top of that he was a star. a boss. as a kid you would always scan the peloton to see his pink or yellow armada and see if he still wore his bandana. if he'd thrown his bandana off you'd know he was going to go berserk and destroy everyone.

This! I actually agree with Ryo

 

[Rominger]

Bah

Funny how even in his shame and retirement Armstrong can still hijack a thread...

This is about Pantani, I was a teenager racing in the UK when Pantani burst onto the scene in 1994. He was exciting to watch even if you knew (which we were not daft enough not to know) that his, as many other performances back then, were clinic induced. He would seem to rip out of the front group in the mountains at will, being impressionable I would copy his on the drops out of the saddle style but even on the shorter climbs of the UK it was hard to do. He was just enjoyable to watch because he danced rather than grinding up the hills... he was clearly no god but was massively entertaining to watch at the time, rather like VDB in 1999 was.

 

[rhubroma]

Just because this was reported in Italy and will be presented in a new film:

As reported in la Repubblica today in regards to the new film on Pantani by the British director, James Erskine, The Accidental Death of a Cyclist (after Dario Fo's "Morte accidentale di un anarchico"), following Marco's first wins with Carrera his mother confided that he had once told her "'As soon as I turned pro I wanted to quit, because it's a mafia.' Then Boifava arrived and convinced him to continue. Only later did I realize what he meant." The film, in fact, embraces, and seeks to demonstrate the idea, that an organized conspiracy to damage Pantani had transpired after the celebrated remount and win at Oropa during the 99 Giro; when after the stage “they” sent him a message that he was not to win anymore: too many interests were at stake and it was time to give others the limelight space. Though he paid no attention to the warning and, following his triumph at Campiglio, the controllers promptly sentenced Pantani with a 52% hematocrit. "I have bounced back after injury and hardship," Pantani said then, "but from this I shall never bounce back" right down to the bitter end.

 

[rhubroma]

Funny how even in his shame and retirement Armstrong can still hijack a thread...

This is about Pantani, I was a teenager racing in the UK when Pantani burst onto the scene in 1994. He was exciting to watch even if you knew (which we were not daft enough not to know) that his, as many other performances back then, were clinic induced. He would seem to rip out of the front group in the mountains at will, being impressionable I would copy his on the drops out of the saddle style but even on the shorter climbs of the UK it was hard to do. He was just enjoyable to watch because he danced rather than grinding up the hills... he was clearly no god but was massively entertaining to watch at the time, rather like VDB in 1999 was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63JkaXvDnl4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6DBDG-0qLs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftElvJLr_bg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgioFYNI6zM

 

[gooner]

Just because this was reported in Italy and will be presented in a new film:

As reported in la Repubblica today in regards to the new film on Pantani by the British director, James Erskine, The Accidental Death of a Cyclist (after Dario Fo's "Morte accidentale di un anarchico"), following Marco's first wins with Carrera his mother confided that he had once told her "'As soon as I turned pro I wanted to quit, because it's a mafia.' Then Boifava arrived and convinced him to continue. Only later did I realize what he meant." The film, in fact, embraces, and seeks to demonstrate the idea, that an organized conspiracy to damage Pantani had transpired after the celebrated remount and win at Oropa during the 99 Giro; when after the stage “they” sent him a message that he was not to win anymore: too many interests were at stake and it was time to give others the limelight space. Though he paid no attention to the warning and, following his triumph at Campiglio, the controllers promptly sentenced Pantani with a 52% hematocrit. "I have bounced back after injury and hardship," Pantani said then, "but from this I shall never bounce back" right down to the bitter end.

Yeah, that's the name of the film I was asking about yesterday. No idea when it's out though. It was originally meant to be released last year.

 

[rhubroma]

Yeah, that's the name of the film I was asking about yesterday. No idea when it's out though. It was originally meant to be released last year.

Feb. 17 in Italy. The point is that, whether one believes in conspiracy theories or not, Marco in any case got the shaft by the cycling powers that be, while at the same time the UCI opened a huge umbrella for Armstrong.

Unfortunately had it been Lance Armstrong at Madonna di Campiglio at the pinnacle of his power within the sport and global fame, I guarantee any 52% hematocrit would not have gone public. I don't think anyone can argue to the contrary who is intellectually honest, moderately perceptive and not without vested interests.

This is not only damning for the UCI, but it fuels those convinced that Pantani was the sacrificial lamb in the global interests of cycling then, whether or not this was actually the desired outcome of a preconceived plot, or simply the fortuitous result for those most interested in having the American market invest in the sport. Whatever the case, once that market was tapped into, the Texan become too big to fail, while the Italian (knowing what was going on and probably was at some level being silenced), consumed by bitterness and envy, detached himself from reality, as he had dropped his rivals on the climbs, and soared away into the abyss from which there is no return.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Feb. 17 in Italy. The point is that, whether one believes in conspiracy theories or not, Marco in any case got the shaft by the cycling powers that be, while at the same time the UCI opened a huge umbrella for Armstrong.

Unfortunately had it been Lance Armstrong at Madonna di Campiglio at the pinnacle of his power within the sport and global fame, I guarantee any 52% hematocrit would not have gone public. I don't think anyone can argue to the contrary who is intellectually honest, moderately perceptive and not without vested interests.

This is damning not only for the UCI, but it fuels those convinced that Pantani was the sacrificial lamb in the global interests of cycling then, whether or not this was actually the desired outcome of a preconceived plot, or simply the fortuitous result for those most interested in having the American market invest in the sport. Whatever the case, once that market was tapped into, the Texan become too big to fail, while the Italian (knowing what was going on and probably was at some level being silenced), consumed by bitterness and envy, detached himself from reality, as he had dropped his rivals on the climbs, and soared away into the abyss from which there is no return.

gotti had a higher hematocrite than pantani in that giro and he was allowed to win. a sad thing with an even sadder outcome

 

[rhubroma]

Another revelation was reported in today's la Gazzetta dello Sport in which it's said that Tonina, Marco's mom, wants to meet Armstrong and have a little chat:

"People are following us, they're not stupid. I've never given up and there will be some new revelations. I haven't got anything against Armstrong, they were all prey to the system, however, Marco had always said, he'd left a maglia rosa with this written on it: "what really hurts is Armstrong." I'd like to encounter him. He must confess. He needs to name names."

 

[SafeBet]

Movie is out on Monday here in Italy.

 

[manafana]

for me he was sometimes as bad as Armstrong didn't quiet go as far as him or have as big business interests but he did bully and he did always have this sole focus on himself

 

[roundabout]

This thread has devolved into one of the worst pieces of propaganda that I have ever read.

Did Pantani have the 52% hematocrit?

Absolutely.

Did he need to showboat to Madonna di Campiglio with 4 minutes in hand on GC?

Absolutely not.

Did the "mafia" (who by the way?) stop him from going to Fuentes?

Absolutely not.

The argument that it was damning for UCI to pull a rider from the race with a 52% hematocrit is idiotic in the extreme.

 

[rhubroma]

This thread has devolved into one of the worst pieces of propaganda that I have ever read.

Did Pantani have the 52% hematocrit?

Absolutely.

Did he need to showboat to Madonna di Campiglio with 4 minutes in hand on GC?

Absolutely not.

Did the "mafia" (who by the way?) stop him from going to Fuentes?

Absolutely not.

The argument that it was damning for UCI to pull a rider from the race with a 52% hematocrit is idiotic in the extreme.

You don't get the point about the UCI protecting Armstrong in spite of what it didn't feel were such strong interests with Pantani. This isn't propaganda, but realpolitik and economic interests. Pantani seems to have realized this and he never got over it. And this is why many in Italy doubt that the official truth is comprehensive. Live in your black-and-white world, though reality is other. Given the outcome, while nobody is advocating him as a model of excellence, the terrible truth is that behind it all lay a shakespearian drama that wound up in a perverse fatality on the one hand, and apothesis on the other. At least that much is clear. While it's the weaker or less potent party that always gets crushed.

 

[roundabout]

At least I don't try to make a greek tragedy out of one of few occasions when there was at least an effort to enforce the rules.

And yes, life is unfair.

Edit: not greek, shakespearian

Edit 2: and the only perverse thing is your implication that Pantani should have been left alone to continue doping because he could not get over suffering the consequences of being uncovered as a cheat.

You are one disgusting individual.

 

[rhubroma]

At least I don't try to make a greek tragedy out of one of few occasions when there was at least an effort to enforce the rules.

And yes, life is unfair.

Edit: not greek, shakespearian

Edit 2: and the only perverse thing is your implication that Pantani should have been left alone to continue doping because he could not get over suffering the consequences of being uncovered as a cheat.

You are one disgusting individual.

No I don't imply this, but that not everybody was not left alone, Greek or Shakesperian (edit), however this may be.

What I am implying is that someone who wasn't is dead, while someone who was, until exceptional circumstances no longer made that possible, was made an untouchable and hero of the sport. The realpolitik and economic interests behind such a scenario are thus what's really the problem in the grand scheme of things - and not simply the doping.

Either everybody is given the same treatment or doping should be legalized, but since that presents ethical problems then everyone must be given the same treatment. To put it in the realm of fanfare: if Italy's party needed to be ruined at Campiglio in 99 in the name of the rules, then America's party should also have been ruined because of a back-dated prescription during the Tour that same year. That there were two measures given to the same weight only means that everything was merely a hypocritical farce and, in hindsight, it would have been better for Pantani, humanly before sport's wise, had he been given the same umbrella as Armstrong. Given that an umbrella was indeed offered to the American.

Disgusting though this may make me in your eyes, it is your lack of intelligence that's what's vexing, and your blockheaded ability to see things only in black and white.

 

[Granville57]

Another revelation was reported in today's la Gazzetta dello Sport in which it's said that Tonina, Marco's mom, wants to meet Armstrong and have a little chat:

"People are following us, they're not stupid. I've never given up and there will be some new revelations. I haven't got anything against Armstrong, they were all prey to the system, however, Marco had always said, he'd left a maglia rosa with this written on it: "what really hurts is Armstrong." I'd like to encounter him. He must confess. He needs to name names."

That is quite interesting. Please keep us posted (in whatever may be the most appropriate thread) if this develops any further.