Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

[Angliru]

I don't really understand that one.

It's a joke Hitch. If you playfully say that Cav disposes his empty bottles in nearby trash receptacles instead of tossing them off his bike to the side of the road or wherever then I equally playfully insist that if Cav's accuracy is such that he can toss an empty bottle into a roadside trashcan while moving at 30+ mph then he should be tossing footballs to receivers in the NFL.

 

[pmcg76]

Well yeah, constant ridiculing of someone has achieved more than most ever will. Jealousy. It shouldn't be in cycling. That word. But it is here when cav in involved.

The idea that Cavendish is the only rider criticised on here is laughable and the idea that it is down to jealousy is even more ridiculous.

You know what, Cadel Evans was ridiculed endlessly on here a few years back but he went out and proved everyone wrong and I would say the overall feeling towards Evans now is one of respect. He earned that respect. Cav needs to do the same.

Right now Cav is regarded by most as a one-trick pony who relies too much on his team in most situations. I dont think that is unfair either as it is true and only Cav himself can change that perception by winning races like Ghent-Wevelgem but right now he doesnt seem capable of doing so. Thus the negative view of him will remain in place until that changes.

 

[cyclopeon]

Ok. this 'it's never me but someone else' is starting to get on my tits.

Latest tweet from Cav:

Well #GentWevelgem didn't go as planned. Comfortable over Kemmelberg twice, but wasn't expecting someone in top25 to leave a gap on descent.

Apparently he's never been on ASchleck's wheel going downhill???

 

[DominicDecoco]

Well yeah, constant ridiculing of someone has achieved more than most ever will. Jealousy. It shouldn't be in cycling. That word. But it is here when cav in involved.

What is it with the 'he has done more than you will ever do', 'he can climb better than you' ..?

Since when was this dicussion board about us and not the cyclist?

 

[hmsgenoa]

Just jumping into this but are you honestly saying that Haussler was the one responsible in the TDS crash??

That's no problem The Rodeo, as long as you have twenty/twenty vision! Check it out at 56s and 1m 27s, they stay up is Haussler doesn't barge, Cav sunddenly loses balance when Hassler connects. Not fair everyone saddle Cav with the blame, and Haussler was head down and drifting across from the right. Cav not blameless but were it not for the stupidity of Hassler they could have stayed upright. Haussler played the biggest part in his own downfall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNsnpmvO7YU

 

[Angliru]

That's no problem The Rodeo, as long as you have twenty/twenty vision! Check it out at 56s and 1m 27s, they stay up is Haussler doesn't barge, Cav sunddenly loses balance when Hassler connects. Not fair everyone saddle Cav with the blame, and Haussler was head down and drifting across from the right. Cav not blameless but were it not for the stupidity of Hassler they could have stayed upright. Haussler played the biggest part in his own downfall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNsnpmvO7YU

No offense but you are so tied up trying to believe that Cav wasn't the cause of this crash that you can't see that the video you keep posting DOES NOT SUPPORT what you are arguing. Those hallicinogenic mushrooms should be removed from your diet. Cavendish's momentum would have taken his wheel into Haussler's path anyway. That crash was only avoidable had Cavendish not crossed all the way into Haussler's space. Like I said before Haussler was only legally protecting his space, space that Cavendish violated.

 

[Mongolian Torque]

Yep

The idea that Cavendish is the only rider criticised on here is laughable and the idea that it is down to jealousy is even more ridiculous.

You know what, Cadel Evans was ridiculed endlessly on here a few years back but he went out and proved everyone wrong and I would say the overall feeling towards Evans now is one of respect. He earned that respect. Cav needs to do the same.

Right now Cav is regarded by most as a one-trick pony who relies too much on his team in most situations. I dont think that is unfair either as it is true and only Cav himself can change that perception by winning races like Ghent-Wevelgem but right now he doesnt seem capable of doing so. Thus the negative view of him will remain in place until that changes.

I agree completely.

Cav pitting the blame on Schar is kinda weak. Just finish the job in any manner possible. If the guy ahead of you gets gapped, then bust your chops to bridge back. It's nobodys fault but your own if you can't. If he's not on your team, why would he even care? If he's a top 25 rider and gets shot out the back like Paris Hilton in the LA Galaxy locker room, then yeah, bad day for him and too bad for everyone else.

Take nothing for granted, STFU and just give 'er. What would Jens do? Probably say a few really good swear words to himself, bury his head, bridge back up, come in 5th place, go back to the bus for a beer and then watch UEFA highlights...

 

[therhodeo]

That's no problem The Rodeo, as long as you have twenty/twenty vision! Check it out at 56s and 1m 27s, they stay up is Haussler doesn't barge, Cav sunddenly loses balance when Hassler connects. Not fair everyone saddle Cav with the blame, and Haussler was head down and drifting across from the right. Cav not blameless but were it not for the stupidity of Hassler they could have stayed upright. Haussler played the biggest part in his own downfall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNsnpmvO7YU

There is a reason that Haussler's line doesn't change in comparison to Mondory and Ciolek and it looks like Cav is sweeping across the whole peloton. Because Cavendish is indeed sweeping across the front of the whole peloton.

 

[personal]

Let me re-iterate my point; I think that, on balance, Cavendish is in the wrong. It was the unequivocal application of blame to Cavendish and saying that I disagreed with. You've just said yourself that Haussler moves about 0.3m across. I always thought that they'd both been planning to take the other's wheel, and just ended up side-by-side, and dangerously close to one and other. This part of the video shows the shove I'm talking about in slow motion. Haussler makes a pretty deliberate move into the back of Cavendish. I know that he was defending his position, and Cavendish shouldn't have been that far over, but you can't just take someone out because they do something you don't like.

Do you not think that that's a pretty clear shove from Haussler on Cavendish?

You do not take somebody down by running into his back (on the bike). I am quite sure Hausller knows that.

You have nothing to say about Cav moving at least a full meter to the left, and nothing about his bike being positioned diagonally in the moment of the crash (as visible in your slo-mo video). Why?

And, no, no shove from H.

 

[El Pistolero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PaCFzFRZAM

Sprints before Cavendish arrived (and after Cipo)

 

[DominicDecoco]

I miss the old Robbie. Absolut lunatic.

 

[Lexman]

Lol. He was top 30 on Kemmel, pretty good for a pure sprinter's standard, and way in front of guys like Greipel and Degenkolb. Hence the frustration, I guess.

But then again, Rojas was on Cav's wheel on the Kemmel descent and 2 mins later, Rojas was in the 1st group while Cav wasn't. So yeah, he should stop whining and wonder how Rojas did manage to be there and he didn't.

Didn't see Rojas was behind Cavendish at the Kemmel, great work by Rojas... and Cav well

 

[Hikeabike]

Because Cavendish is indeed sweeping across the front of the whole peloton.

Watch Haussler sweep across the whole peloton after having a dig at Cav seconds 27, even the commentators remark on it.

 

[Lexman]

I just can't appreciate any "sprinter" that can only win when he hasn't been seen until the last 100m and never gets into a break. I suppose a win is a win, but the classics are for real cyclists.

me neither, as said before riders like Greipel Farrar are much more real cyclists as Cavendish

what to be hoped from Lemare in the future?

great quote by Hugo BTW

 

[hatcher]

There's no way Cavendish shouldn't make the front group after being in the top 30 over the Kemmelberg. Terrible job from Sky. He was completely isolated on the descent which is ridiculous really.

This tweet from Chris Sutton tells me that ''words'' have been said on the bus after the race:

''Whether I fail or succeed shall be no man's doing but my own..''

Just re-watched it, and he wasn't isolated at all. Starting the descent there were 3 Sky guys in front of Cav, one right behind him, and Stannard just behind him.

It split on the descent, and they could never close the gap, despite the fact that Hayman waited for the Cav group just to give an extra hand. Cav was never isolated. If (and I've no idea if he did) he blamed it on his teammates he was dead wrong.

 

[hmsgenoa]

No offense but you are so tied up trying to believe that Cav wasn't the cause of this crash that you can't see that the video you keep posting DOES NOT SUPPORT what you are arguing. Those hallicinogenic mushrooms should be removed from your diet. Cavendish's momentum would have taken his wheel into Haussler's path anyway. That crash was only avoidable had Cavendish not crossed all the way into Haussler's space. Like I said before Haussler was only legally protecting his space, space that Cavendish violated.

I think you need to get real, that is speculation; what you can clearly see is that Haussler knocked Cavendish off balance and that had he mere held firm (as per finish on Champs Elysees 2003 Tour de France as an example) there is a good chance with the bike handling these professionals possess they would have stayed upright.

FFS can you not see that Hassler knocks him off balance and that Cav is practically upright when the contact occurs? There's no way that Cav's front wheel would have unded up underneath Haussler's if he hadn't barged him at precisely the moment Cav was starting a honk to the right. No one, not the commisaires & not the UCI looked at this closely enough.

Cavendish's extraordinary success has caused a lot of professional jealousy and this incident was tailor made for the peloton to try and knock him down a peg or two. Look at the history between Haussler and Cavendish himself. Haussler knew who was there, Haussler was/is still smarting from being caught on the line at San Remo and struggles to get near Cavendish.

If we look at the natural flow of the sprint and how an earlier flick caused Cavendish to compensate and lean to his left, that is what brought him in towards the middle of the road. You can see that immediately prior to the collision he's doing his best to straighten it up. What I draw from this is that Cavendish hadn't intended to end up there but at 45MPH plus the earlier compensation had put him there - you are entitled to your own opinion.

BTW since when has a shoulder barge been 'legally protecting your space' in a sprint finish? Haussler himself was converging on Ciolek's line so this is complete twaddle.

What cannot be disputed is that Haussler intentionally barged Cavendish, causing them to crash. Had he merely held firm we wouldn't be bickering about this now. I didn't know mushrooms can be hallucinogenic - are you sure it's not you who's been indulging?!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

FFS can you not see that Hassler knocks him off balance and that Cav is practically upright when the contact occurs? There's no way that Cav's front wheel would have unded up underneath Haussler's if he hadn't barged him at precisely the moment Cav was starting a honk to the right. No one, not the commisaires & not the UCI looked at this closely enough.

It is absolutely irrelevant whether Haussler barges Cav or not, because Cav should never have been in a position for Haussler to barge him, and to be there is an invasion of Haussler's space.

Haussler isn't blameless in the incident (he's moving a little himself, and as is pointed out, earlier in the video he has a pretty wild swerve of his own), but to say that it's more Haussler than Cav is wearing Cav-goggles, because if Cav hadn't been doing something wrong (the Abdou-like sprinting on the crab) then there wouldn't have been any reason for there to be contact anyway.

Cavendish didn't do anything deliberate there, he was just trying to force it because he wasn't in form. When he's in form, he can crab all he likes, cos he's so far ahead of the rest. But here? He goes wildly from side to side. If Haussler doesn't defend himself (rather too muscularly) where he does, then all that happens is Cav crashes into him slightly further up.

The only way that crash was avoidable was if Haussler slowed down to let Cav through, and Cav reached the finishing line before his sprinting line inevitably took him into the fans. Pardon Haussler for not wanting to yield when somebody's cutting him up.

They're both lucky Ciolek wasn't as quick as them, as he was cut up in some way by Haussler, and in a BIG way by Cavendish.

ETA:
You're honestly saying that Cavendish was just riding his own race, when Haussler spots him, and goes "OMG THAT'S THAT CAVENDISH GUY THAT BEAT ME AT SAN-REMO!!!" then deliberately drops his shoulder AND CRASHES HIMSELF OUT?!

You really believe that the péloton should roll a red carpet out for Cavendish, don't you?

 

[hmsgenoa]

It is absolutely irrelevant whether Haussler barges Cav or not, because Cav should never have been in a position for Haussler to barge him, and to be there is an invasion of Haussler's space.

Haussler isn't blameless in the incident (he's moving a little himself, and as is pointed out, earlier in the video he has a pretty wild swerve of his own), but to say that it's more Haussler than Cav is wearing Cav-goggles, because if Cav hadn't been doing something wrong (the Abdou-like sprinting on the crab) then there wouldn't have been any reason for there to be contact anyway.

Cavendish didn't do anything deliberate there, he was just trying to force it because he wasn't in form. When he's in form, he can crab all he likes, cos he's so far ahead of the rest. But here? He goes wildly from side to side. If Haussler doesn't defend himself (rather too muscularly) where he does, then all that happens is Cav crashes into him slightly further up.

The only way that crash was avoidable was if Haussler slowed down to let Cav through, and Cav reached the finishing line before his sprinting line inevitably took him into the fans. Pardon Haussler for not wanting to yield when somebody's cutting him up.

They're both lucky Ciolek wasn't as quick as them, as he was cut up in some way by Haussler, and in a BIG way by Cavendish.

ETA:
You're honestly saying that Cavendish was just riding his own race, when Haussler spots him, and goes "OMG THAT'S THAT CAVENDISH GUY THAT BEAT ME AT SAN-REMO!!!" then deliberately drops his shoulder AND CRASHES HIMSELF OUT?!

You really believe that the péloton should roll a red carpet out for Cavendish, don't you?

I cannot believe I/we have to keep re-hashing the same old cr_p here. At the end of the day all I have said all along is that Cavendish wasn't solely to blame for this incident and that there is a high probability that they'd have all stayed up if Haussler hadn't shoulder barged Cavendish.

A number of you have chosen to be blind to the blindingly obvious - have you actually watched the slow motion carefully or bothered to look at other elbow to elbow finishes with riders who behaved more professionally, that leant on each other and managed to stay upright?

I say if you cannot look at 1 min 1.27 on that link and acknowledge that Haussler knocked Cav off balance and therefore caused an uneccessary spill, then, quite frankly, you are deceiving yourself.

I acknowledged that Cavendish moved across the road, but why do you choose to ignore the reason why that actually happened? (that he was flicked right earlier and had to lean to the left to correct while travelling at 45mph and putting him in collision course with Haussler who is himself drifting to the right). These situations develop, literally one thing leads to another. However what the slow motion shows is that the catastrophic ending came about because Hassler shoulder barged Cav just as he was trying to straighten his course.

No I don't believe they should roll out the red carpet for Cavendish. The fact remains that Cavendish was travelling quicker than Haussler anyway. You can see the concern on Cavs face because he realises that he's on a collision course and is quite plainly trying to do something about it, while Haussler's solution was to get heavy handed. He could have chosen not to yield without resorting to that stupidity.

 

[mb2612]

I cannot believe I/we have to keep re-hashing the same old cr_p here. At the end of the day all I have said all along is that Cavendish wasn't solely to blame for this incident and that there is a high probability that they'd have all stayed up if Haussler hadn't shoulder barged Cavendish.

A number of you have chosen to be blind to the blindingly obvious - have you actually watched the slow motion carefully or bothered to look at other elbow to elbow finishes with riders who behaved more professionally, that leant on each other and managed to stay upright?

I say if you cannot look at 1 min 1.27 on that link and acknowledge that Haussler knocked Cav off balance and therefore caused an uneccessary spill, then, quite frankly, you are deceiving yourself.

I acknowledged that Cavendish moved across the road, but why do you choose to ignore the reason why that actually happened? (that he was flicked right earlier and had to lean to the left to correct while travelling at 45mph and putting him in collision course with Haussler who is himself drifting to the right). These situations develop, literally one thing leads to another. However what the slow motion shows is that the catastrophic ending came about because Hassler shoulder barged Cav just as he was trying to straighten his course.

No I don't believe they should roll out the red carpet for Cavendish. The fact remains that Cavendish was travelling quicker than Haussler anyway. You can see the concern on Cavs face because he realises that he's on a collision course and is quite plainly trying to do something about it, while Haussler's solution was to get heavy handed. He could have chosen not to yield without resorting to that stupidity.

You are being deliberately perverse.

Cav crashes into Haussler, that's clear at slow speed, it's clear at real time and it was clear to the commisaires, and the riders in the peloton.

 

[hmsgenoa]

You are being deliberately perverse.

Cav crashes into Haussler, that's clear at slow speed, it's clear at real time and it was clear to the commisaires, and the riders in the peloton.

Seriously, ask yourself if it is not in fact you that is being perverse? I acknowledge that Cavs Course puts them on a collision course, but they could have bumped off each other with out that spill. Haussler knocked Cav off balance plain and simple, look carefully at the slow motion and see how suddenly the picture changed. It was not beyond recovery just prior to Hausslers barge.

I'd argue it isn't so clear in real time and that the slow motion puts things into perspective - but having made decisions they will not admit they (commisaires) are wrong. As for the riders in the peloton they were fed up with Cavendish walking this type of stage and quite happy to see this sort of conclusion. It's interesting that the massive flick Cavendish gets from Ciolek immediately prior never gets a mention, these situations develop. Perverse? I think not.

I can show a picture of myself winning on the track having suffered a flick to the right, I eased off came back round behind the rider and shot up the inside. You can see him leaning back to the left trying to close the door but too late. I was a clean rider myself and I simply don't like what Haussler did - it was completely unecessary and brought the lot of them down.

 

[Angliru]

Haussler did what anyone else would have done when presented with a rider moving rapidly into his space: he braced himself for what was obviously an impending impact. In your eyes I take it you believe Haussler should have hit his brakes or stopped his forward motion and allowed Cavendish to continue his reckless path across the front of the pack. You are blind to the facts and what is occurring in front of you. The reason this has gone on for so long is because of this fact. I will cease to continue to feed your madness.

 

[William H]

Haussler didn't shoulder barge Cav, he realised they were going to come into contact and braced, which is the right thing to do. If Cav had done the same they'd probably have been OK, but Cav didn't know Haussler was there and thus fell.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I say if you cannot look at 1 min 1.27 on that link and acknowledge that Haussler knocked Cav off balance and therefore caused an uneccessary spill, then, quite frankly, you are deceiving yourself.

If you cannot acknowledge that, given the line Cav was taking, the spill was not unnecessary but in fact inevitable, you are deceiving yourself.

Haussler may be partially responsible for it happening where it did, and not a couple of metres further down the road, but he is not responsible for a crash being inevitable, because it wouldn't have been had Cavendish's line not been so erratic.

If Cavendish hadn't been way off line, Haussler would have been shoulder barging air. If Haussler hadn't been shoulder barging, Cavendish would still have barrelled into him.

 

[will10]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PaCFzFRZAM

Sprints before Cavendish arrived (and after Cipo)

Blast from the past, there's Fast Freddie Rodriguez leading out McEwen!

 

[Sylvester]

"Cavendish is bullish about his prospects of winning the devilishly difficult Olympic road race. "I think there's a very real possibility," he says evenly. "The Olympic Games are in London and we've got the strongest team Britain has ever had. This is probably the strongest road team any nation has had. And we've got the fastest sprinter in the world [Cavendish himself]."