Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

[Eric8-A]

"Cavendish is bullish about his prospects of winning the devilishly difficult Olympic road race. "I think there's a very real possibility," he says evenly. "The Olympic Games are in London and we've got the strongest team Britain has ever had. This is probably the strongest road team any nation has had. And we've got the fastest sprinter in the world [Cavendish himself]."

He did also say to not count him out of a win on the worlds course of 2010.

 

[hmsgenoa]

Haussler didn't shoulder barge Cav, he realised they were going to come into contact and braced, which is the right thing to do. If Cav had done the same they'd probably have been OK, but Cav didn't know Haussler was there and thus fell.

@3.41 - This is coming into contact, bracing and riding in a professional manner. Haussler was not doing this, there is a difference between bracking and knocking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOFufn5e5C4

 

[hmsgenoa]

Haussler did what anyone else would have done when presented with a rider moving rapidly into his space: he braced himself for what was obviously an impending impact. In your eyes I take it you believe Haussler should have hit his brakes or stopped his forward motion and allowed Cavendish to continue his reckless path across the front of the pack. You are blind to the facts and what is occurring in front of you. The reason this has gone on for so long is because of this fact. I will cease to continue to feed your madness.

I'm glad you won't continue. To be honest I think both you and Libertine Seguros are the ones that have your eyes wide shut, because its you who choose to miss my original point which is that Cav is not solely to blame, ignore what Ciolek had done immediately prior to this which contributed to the situation and the fact that Haussler clearly knocks Cav off balance.
You are welcome to your opinions and speculation. I on the other hand think Haussler contributed greatly to this, was reckless, and that the situation may have been recoverable had he not barged Cav.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Good interview with Cav in The Guardian tomorrow where he says there is no respect in the peloton anymore.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/mar/26/mark-cavendish-tour-2012-games

I can't believe how much I hate that idiot even more after this! no respect?? says the guy who literally beat soler of his bike which cost him the giro 2009. he's the last person to ever talk about respect. he's a whining b**** who deserves eveyr bit of karma that is coming to him.

 

[hmsgenoa]

If you cannot acknowledge that, given the line Cav was taking, the spill was not unnecessary but in fact inevitable, you are deceiving yourself.

Haussler may be partially responsible for it happening where it did, and not a couple of metres further down the road, but he is not responsible for a crash being inevitable, because it wouldn't have been had Cavendish's line not been so erratic.

If Cavendish hadn't been way off line, Haussler would have been shoulder barging air. If Haussler hadn't been shoulder barging, Cavendish would still have barrelled into him.

@3.41 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOFufn5e5C4

Yes there was trajectory to take into account but Cav is clearly knocked and it takes two to tango; therefore I am completely correct to say this is not entirely Cavendish's fault which is all I have said all along. I am disgusted they pinned it entirely on him. Why do you choose to ignore the massive flick Ciolek gave Cav earlier and the fact that that itself contributed to the situation?

 

[unsheath]

I can't believe how much I hate that idiot even more after this! no respect?? says the guy who literally beat soler of his bike which cost him the giro 2009. he's the last person to ever talk about respect. he's a whining b**** who deserves eveyr bit of karma that is coming to him.

That article was unbearable.

 

[personal]

@3.41 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOFufn5e5C4

Yes there was trajectory to take into account but Cav is clearly knocked and it takes two to tango; therefore I am completely correct to say this is not entirely Cavendish's fault which is all I have said all along. I am disgusted they pinned it entirely on him. Why do you choose to ignore the massive flick Ciolek gave Cav earlier and the fact that that itself contributed to the situation?

No, it does not take two to cause crash in sprint. It takes only one, just like it happened in this case.

You didn't anwer my questions. Please, do:

You have nothing to say about Cav moving at least a full meter to the left, and nothing about his bike being positioned diagonally in the moment of the crash (as visible in your slo-mo video).

 

[therhodeo]

That article was unbearable.

Indeed it is.

 

[El Pistolero]

Best team a nation has ever seen? Please...

Faema and Molteni were the best teams in cycling history. Italian sponsored, but dominated by Belgian riders.

 

[DominicDecoco]

That's a rather unfortunate interview to say the least.

 

[Boardslide]

That's a rather unfortunate interview to say the least.

This ariticle reads as if it's been cobbled together from other interviews as is sometimes The Guardian's want, it sounds a bit flowery in places which isn't exactly Cav. Did anybody watch the sporza interview the other night and if so what were your thoughts. I thought this quite good with a very relaxed and articulate Cav enjoying the company and the mickey taking in good spirits.



http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/video...nnen/1.1252697

 

[Hawkwood]

Guardian interview

It's not a word for word account of what Cav said, and there's quite a lot of flannel that the journalist has inserted. The latter said there were two interviews, and he probably taped both then cut and pasted the bits he thought would make a good story.

 

[Caruut]

This ariticle reads as if it's been cobbled together from other interviews as is sometimes The Guardian's want, it sounds a bit flowery in places which isn't exactly Cav. Did anybody watch the sporza interview the other night and if so what were your thoughts. I thought this quite good with a very relaxed and articulate Cav enjoying the company and the mickey taking in good spirits.



http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/video...nnen/1.1252697

Not sure it's just the Guardian that does that. It feels either like they've put a few together, or they had a much longer interview and trimmed it down it places. It's also an interview for a mainstream paper in a non-cycling country. The journalist is tasked with bringing some perspective to the piece and making sure the comments make sense in context.

The interview is, however, extremely painful to read. Implying the Katusha bottle was deliberately put into his spokes is just untrue.

I saw the Sporza interview as well, and the whole complaining about Katusha thing seems far more light-hearted than when you read it in print.

 

[Caruut]

Best team a nation has ever seen? Please...

Faema and Molteni were the best teams in cycling history. Italian sponsored, but dominated by Belgian riders.

Think he's talking about national teams. It's certainly the best British team ever. Possibly if you saw most national teams as collections of individuals and this one as a team you could begin to justify it, but he's gone a bit too far there.

 

[El Pistolero]

Think he's talking about national teams. It's certainly the best British team ever. Possibly if you saw most national teams as collections of individuals and this one as a team you could begin to justify it, but he's gone a bit too far there.

Yeah, but when Eddy Merckx won the Tour he practically only had Belgian and Dutch riders with him. More Belgians than Brits on Sky that's for sure.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I read it as being "the best road cycling team that team GB has put out for an Olympics."

I would happen to agree with that. There is a depth in British road cycling that there simply hasn't been before. Heck in previous years did team GB even qualify for sending 5 riders ?

The track cycling team in many ways could be better than the Bejing team, but obviously will not be able to double up, and the compeition have raised thier games, so the same sort of landslide will not be possible.

 

[Angliru]

"Cavendish is bullish about his prospects of winning the devilishly difficult Olympic road race. "I think there's a very real possibility," he says evenly. "The Olympic Games are in London and we've got the strongest team Britain has ever had. This is probably the strongest road team any nation has had. And we've got the fastest sprinter in the world [Cavendish himself]."

He certainly isn't hesitant with the hyperbole. I'll chalk it up to him being excited about the team's prospects but still he needs to come back to earth.

 

[Angliru]

I read it as being "the best road cycling team that team GB has put out for an Olympics."I would happen to agree with that. There is a depth in British road cycling that there simply hasn't been before. Heck in previous years did team GB even qualify for sending 5 riders ?

The track cycling team in many ways could be better than the Bejing team, but obviously will not be able to double up, and the compeition have raised thier games, so the same sort of landslide will not be possible.

How can you read it as that when he follows that exact statment by saying "probably the best team any nation has put together?

 

[hmsgenoa]

No, it does not take two to cause crash in sprint. It takes only one, just like it happened in this case.

You didn't anwer my questions. Please, do:

You have nothing to say about Cav moving at least a full meter to the left, and nothing about his bike being positioned diagonally in the moment of the crash (as visible in your slo-mo video).

If you are going to get involved read all relevant posts - and understand them.

As I have already stated if Ciolek hadn't flicked Cavendish right he wouldn't have compensated by leaning the bike left and setting a course that then takes him towards the middle of the road, though I acknowledge Cavendish is partially to blame why can no one else see (or choose not to see) that Haussler is drifting right therefore the two of them are bl__dy tangoing, and Haussler should definitely copped some of the blame.

In addition had Ciolek not made the earlier massive flick I'm sure Cavendish wouldn't have been closing the door (as was Haussler). As for Cavendish being positioned diagonally, if you look at that sequence frame by frame you will see Cav is trying to straighten up and then Haussler knocks him off balance.

I acknowledge that Cav has come across the road and isn't blameless but I am afraid you seem to think the other riders are saints and did nothing wrong; I'm afraid that is definitely not the case. You are ignoring the preceeding action (prior to Cav moving across) and the fact that Haussler tips Cav off balance. All I have said is that Cav isn't solely to blame and that there was a chance the crash could have been avoided had Haussler not barged him.

If you want to talk about answering questions answer these;

What effect did the massive flick Ciolek gave Cavendish have on the subsequent action? Do you think if you had been in Cav's pedals you might have closed the door on him?

Are you short sighted or long sighted?

Why can't you see that Cav is actually knocked off balance suddenly?

Why wouldn't you attribute some blame to the person who drifted left and then barged his opponent? Because he's poor Heinrich Haussler who doesn't win sprints week in week out and therefore is allowed to drift across and barge?

I don't think you'll be gaining entry to Mensa after this last post of yours.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Ciolek's earlier flick was actually contributed to by Haussler. If you read my first posts on the subject, I even said that Haussler did that.

I also said that Haussler contributed to the moment of the impact. Which he does. But there wouldn't have been an impact to contribute to if Cavendish hadn't been sprinting on the crab.

But compensating for Ciolek pushing him over (which he does) does not excuse a full on Abdou side-sprint where Haussler was the only thing preventing Cav from ending up in the crowd. You're conveniently putting as much emphasis as possible on the final moment of the crash, where the inevitable situation of the two riders hitting each other (as evidenced by the diagonal Cav's bike is at when they collide; the only way to stop collision would be for Haussler to slam the brakes on and let Cav through) is exacerbated by Haussler's bump, and as little emphasis as possible on Cavendish.

Ciolek's behaviour was reckless, but was only tangentially relevant to the crash itself. That they crash where they do and not further up the road is Haussler's fault, but that they crash is Cavendish's fault.

 

[The Hitch]

How can you read it as that when he follows that exact statment by saying "probably the best team any nation has put together?

Yeah I agree, that defense is ridiculous, he clearly says any nation.

And its not even the strongest team a nation can put together atm. I mean what will the Spanish team be for the worlds. Valverde? Contador? Samuel Sanchez? Joaquim Rodriguez? Moreno, Lulu, Freire, Rojas???

It reminds me of when someone said that Australias up and coming late 80's early 1990's kids will become the greatest generation in the history of cycling, forgetting that Pantani, Rebellin, Simoni, Bettini, Savoldeli, Simoni etc are all from the same era.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Barredo should be in that team...

 

[Flamin]

the best team any nation has put together

No more no less than some populist statement. British journalist, British newspaper,... Isn't that exactly what they want to hear?

 

[personal]

So condenscending while so wrong.
Bravo.
EOD

If you are going to get involved read all relevant posts - and understand them.

As I have already stated if Ciolek hadn't flicked Cavendish right he wouldn't have compensated by leaning the bike left and setting a course that then takes him towards the middle of the road, though I acknowledge Cavendish is partially to blame why can no one else see (or choose not to see) that Haussler is drifting right therefore the two of them are bl__dy tangoing, and Haussler should definitely copped some of the blame.

In addition had Ciolek not made the earlier massive flick I'm sure Cavendish wouldn't have been closing the door (as was Haussler). As for Cavendish being positioned diagonally, if you look at that sequence frame by frame you will see Cav is trying to straighten up and then Haussler knocks him off balance.

I acknowledge that Cav has come across the road and isn't blameless but I am afraid you seem to think the other riders are saints and did nothing wrong; I'm afraid that is definitely not the case. You are ignoring the preceeding action (prior to Cav moving across) and the fact that Haussler tips Cav off balance. All I have said is that Cav isn't solely to blame and that there was a chance the crash could have been avoided had Haussler not barged him.

If you want to talk about answering questions answer these;

What effect did the massive flick Ciolek gave Cavendish have on the subsequent action? Do you think if you had been in Cav's pedals you might have closed the door on him?

Are you short sighted or long sighted?

Why can't you see that Cav is actually knocked off balance suddenly?

Why wouldn't you attribute some blame to the person who drifted left and then barged his opponent? Because he's poor Heinrich Haussler who doesn't win sprints week in week out and therefore is allowed to drift across and barge?

I don't think you'll be gaining entry to Mensa after this last post of yours.

 

[Caruut]

Yeah, but when Eddy Merckx won the Tour he practically only had Belgian and Dutch riders with him. More Belgians than Brits on Sky that's for sure.

Sorry, when I say 'national team', I mean the squad for the Worlds, Olympics, etc. Neither statement is true, however. Molteni is just one of many teams that are better than Sky. On anything but a pan-flat course, GB lack a real winner, they aren't even the best team around at the moment.

Cav relies on a team motivated to work for him, we all know that. I guess this is just part of that.