Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

[Angliru]

Yes I think you are correct. Despise means to regard with contempt or scorn. While Hatred can result in extreme behavior including violence, murder, and war.

I suspect people who can't sprint may despise Cav but not hate him.

However cycling to me is a sport which caters for ever one so good luck to Cav when he wins a sprint.

Interestingly, Petacchi a sprinter with worse form than Cav attracts no comment which I think directly relates to the amount of coverage he gets in the english writing press.

Petacchi is on the downward slope of his career and Cav is just reaching his peak.

 

[King Of The Mountain's]

The people comparing greipel to cav lol giro 2010 greipel saying he should be no1 sprinter he goes to the giro win's how many stages lol and then cav win's how many at the tour.2011 well greipel was great at the TDF lol it's ovi he'd do turns 4 gilbert cuz he couldn't win sprints now whats the deal cav's a leader who WIN'S BIG you wouldn't see Basso or schleck or sanchez or contador riding in the wind for their teammates so why moan at cav.

 

[Caruut]

You really need to watch 32 - 35th second and you'll see how much Cav moves from (his) right to left and into Haussler who didn't change his direction at all.
Same is obvious in from above view ih 51-56th sec, too.
Use white lines as reference.

Cavendish moves up alongside Haussler. Too close, yes. But then Haussler barges into him, Cav loses his balance, and his wheel comes out from underneath him, smacking Haussler's out too. Shoulder barging someone at the front of the pack is taking your grievances with Cav out on anyone unfortunate enough to be behind the two of you - in this case, the entire peloton.

Cav is to blame for the crash 100%.

How you can watch it, see the barge and think that Haussler should not have acted differently is utterly beyond me. On balance, Cavendish is probably more at fault, but you're clearly seeing what you want to.

 

[personal]

Cavendish moves up alongside Haussler. Too close, yes. But then Haussler barges into him, Cav loses his balance, and his wheel comes out from underneath him, smacking Haussler's out too. Shoulder barging someone at the front of the pack is taking your grievances with Cav out on anyone unfortunate enough to be behind the two of you - in this case, the entire peloton.


How you can watch it, see the barge and think that Haussler should not have acted differently is utterly beyond me. On balance, Cavendish is probably more at fault, but you're clearly seeing what you want to.

Hausller moved less then 30 cm to the right, basicaly going quite straight while Cav moved at least 1 m to the left and into Hausller and his wheel went under Hausller's.
Use Lampre rider on his right as reference. He was riding really straight.

Also note the direction of the their bikes in the moment of crash. One was straight, another one was pointed diagonally across the road.

It is you that see what you want, I am affraid.

 

[Nick C.]

On the Suisse crash who came all the way from Ciolek's right side across him and ultimately into contact with another rider who was on Ciolek's left side? I find it hard to believe people are actually arguing that that person is undeserving of blame or actually saying the guy who was already on Ciolek's left caused the crash.

 

[Nick C.]

The people comparing greipel to cav lol giro 2010 greipel saying he should be no1 sprinter he goes to the giro win's how many stages lol and then cav win's how many at the tour.2011 well greipel was great at the TDF lol it's ovi he'd do turns 4 gilbert cuz he couldn't win sprints now whats the deal cav's a leader who WIN'S BIG you wouldn't see Basso or schleck or sanchez or contador riding in the wind for their teammates so why moan at cav.

um er I guess you missed the point. Didn't the Schlecks ride in the wind for each other on the mountain stagres. I believe Cadel rode for Gilbert (while in the WC jersey) in Lombardia. Greipel and Petacchi would take turns for their teammates on the from on hilly or in Petacchi's case mountain stages. Maybe Cav will do his bit for Eisel in Flanders and prove me wrong.

 

[The Hitch]

You really can't? Ask a Jew what they think about Hitler(or any sane person for that matter). Ask a Neo-Nazi what they think about Jews.

Did you sleep during your WWII lessons at school or something?

Come on pisti. surely as a history student you can come out with better examples than that.

 

[Ragerod]

um er I guess you missed the point. Didn't the Schlecks ride in the wind for each other on the mountain stagres. I believe Cadel rode for Gilbert (while in the WC jersey) in Lombardia. Greipel and Petacchi would take turns for their teammates on the from on hilly or in Petacchi's case mountain stages. Maybe Cav will do his bit for Eisel in Flanders and prove me wrong.

Cav rode for Sutton just the other day. Something Sky probably won't try again.

 

[Nick C.]

Cav rode for Sutton just the other day. Something Sky probably won't try again.

Fair enough...strike one reason. That pesky selective memory and being stuck in the land of no (or practically no) televised cycling.

 

[The Hitch]

I hear Cav tweeted yesterday that he was going to be on that Belgian show where Samu and Phil and Thor appeared to celebrate Samu's kom jersey and crit win back in July.

Der laatse show or some such.

Did he appear?

Anyone got a link maybe?

 

[hatcher]

I hear Cav tweeted yesterday that he was going to be on that Belgian show where Samu and Phil and Thor appeared to celebrate Samu's kom jersey and crit win back in July.

Der laatse show or some such.

Did he appear?

Anyone got a link maybe?

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/MG_sportnieuws/MG_wielrennen/1.1252697

 

[Nick C.]

He is a rotton bowler, rotten pool player, rotton coronet player, doesn' t speak french (well maybe) and doesn't pay his debts.

 

[Caruut]

Hausller moved less then 30 cm to the right, basicaly going quite straight while Cav moved at least 1 m to the left and into Hausller and his wheel went under Hausller's.
Use Lampre rider on his right as reference. He was riding really straight.

Also note the direction of the their bikes in the moment of crash. One was straight, another one was pointed diagonally across the road.

It is you that see what you want, I am affraid.

Let me re-iterate my point; I think that, on balance, Cavendish is in the wrong. It was the unequivocal application of blame to Cavendish and saying that I disagreed with. You've just said yourself that Haussler moves about 0.3m across. I always thought that they'd both been planning to take the other's wheel, and just ended up side-by-side, and dangerously close to one and other. This part of the video shows the shove I'm talking about in slow motion. Haussler makes a pretty deliberate move into the back of Cavendish. I know that he was defending his position, and Cavendish shouldn't have been that far over, but you can't just take someone out because they do something you don't like.

Do you not think that that's a pretty clear shove from Haussler on Cavendish?

 

[El Pistolero]

I hear Cav tweeted yesterday that he was going to be on that Belgian show where Samu and Phil and Thor appeared to celebrate Samu's kom jersey and crit win back in July.

Der laatse show or some such.

Did he appear?

Anyone got a link maybe?

The show will end very soon.

The show with Samu, Thor and Phil was a different show by the way. But the Laatste Show usually has a lot of famous cyclists as guests.

 

[Angliru]

God, over two years later people are still arguing about that crash. People should get over it, racing incident.

Moments in history be it sports or anything else get debated about all the time. Why should this be any different?

 

[The Hitch]

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/MG_sportnieuws/MG_wielrennen/1.1252697

Thanks.

10 char.

 

[CQmanager]

Bernie Eisel just proved today what I said earlier in this thread. He is just wasting his talent to be personal servant for this obese one-trick-pony ....

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The people comparing greipel to cav lol giro 2010 greipel saying he should be no1 sprinter he goes to the giro win's how many stages lol and then cav win's how many at the tour.2011 well greipel was great at the TDF lol it's ovi he'd do turns 4 gilbert cuz he couldn't win sprints now whats the deal cav's a leader who WIN'S BIG you wouldn't see Basso or schleck or sanchez or contador riding in the wind for their teammates so why moan at cav.

Greipel got ill at the Giro. Could have happened to anybody. Cavendish was busy getting beaten by Chicchi and Haedo in California that May, so he wasn't riding strong at the time either. And what happened in May and what happened in March are two different things; that March, Greipel was in really strong form whereas Cavendish had been dropped from way out in 2 flat stages of Tirreno-Adriatico and crashed on the one stage where he did make it to the end in the bunch. The form he carried toward his defence of Milan-San Remo was woeful.

Now, Greipel only couldn't go because he and Cav couldn't co-exist. I would have been mortified if HTC hadn't taken Cav, on the basis that the defending champion deserves the right, if he wants to, to try to defend his title.

No I dont agree with that at all. Despite what some have said on here, if you give a sportsmen more that a general dislike you are taking things far too seriously.

Yes, but "hate" is much quicker and easier to type than "have a general but persistent dislike for".

 

[Catwhoorg]

Cav rode for Sutton just the other day. Something Sky probably won't try again.

Cav was also a team driver in Delhi, during the 2010 ITT for the Manx riders.

No plaudits to be had, just giving back to cycling's roots. I think the highest placed Manx rider was 20th or so.

 

[Richeypen]

Cav was also a team driver in Delhi, during the 2010 ITT for the Manx riders.

No plaudits to be had, just giving back to cycling's roots. I think the highest placed Manx rider was 20th or so.

He also chased down countless attacks in the road race single handed before being done over by the sheer number of Aussies in the final few kms. He saves himself for the final sprint becaus eit works and gets him victories, not because thats the only way he can ride.

 

[Eric8-A]

Bernie Eisel just proved today what I said earlier in this thread. He is just wasting his talent to be personal servant for this obese one-trick-pony ....

Yes sir.

More random words to complete more than 10 characters.

 

[hmsgenoa]

Both of them cut up Ciolek, Cavendish more so. How he's blameless I don't understand, unless you're wearing Union Jack goggles.

Haussler was deviating a bit, Cavendish more so. Both of them were being reckless, Cavendish more so.

Cav is sometimes given a hard time. But blaming Haussler for the accident here because he happens to drop his shoulder a bit at the last second instead of turning off and letting Goldenballs through is a reach. This is about as obvious a bump as Karpets inadvertently knocking Contador over in the Tour.

Cav wasn't doing a Theo Bos, no. I never said he was. The comparison to Bos earlier was taking the "the guy who 90% of people think is to blame isn't to blame and is being picked on" philosophy of those who think Haussler is to blame here and applying it to other cases.

Also, you say that Haussler is the one being unprofessional; I'd argue that consistent refusal to take responsibility for your actions is pretty unprofessional of Cavendish too. Sprinting as wildly as Cavendish did that day may have been OK in the days of Abdoujaparov, but it doesn't fly today. Especially not from a guy who should be - and usually is - above that kind of nonsense.

Unless you think that his victory at Romandie was him trying to signal that it was his second victory of the year, but pulling his bicep partway through, so having to support it with his other arm.

So many of you refuse to see the point despite having it put so clearly in front of you. I do not have Union Jack googles on.

I do not think Cav was blameless and have pointed out that he put his head down which caused him to travel across the road, an 'Abdu' moment agreed (mind you Haussler is not travelling straight down the road and has his head down most of the time).

What you are failing to understand is this; if you look closely enough at all the clips available, you will see that what tips Cav off balance, bringing his front wheel under Haussler's is Haussler's exaggerated barging with his shoulder - there is no doubt whatsoever that without that the carnage that ensued could have been avoided.

You need to look at 1.27 also in the slow mo (of my original link) and watch it a few times and you will see that just prior to Cav falling his bike was practically upright (Cav just starting a honk to the right) and that the change in balance was sudden and coincides precisely with Haussler's barge. Therefore the end result - the spill - was unecessary .

I came into this thread because I saw more nonsense about the incident brought up again. As some point out it's a racing incident and should be forgotten (but learnt from). What annoys me is that the blame was lain solely at Cavendish's door and that is absolute claptrap.

I'd like it if you could all see what is plainly before you. I'm not trying to pull the wool over your eyes - I'm trying to pull it from them.

To Angliru; obviously I make a generalisation - I'm sure not all Americans are Tyler Farrar fans. However a rather large percentage of Cav's knockers (his detractors!) seem to be American, that's a fact.

 

[scottfrasernz]

Cavendish also looks a major tool wearing the world champion cap everywhere.

 

[Angliru]

To Angliru; obviously I make a generalisation - I'm sure not all Americans are Tyler Farrar fans. However a rather large percentage of Cav's knockers (his detractors!) seem to be American, that's a fact.

I didn't know that many here posted their actual whereabouts. I am one in a minority. I'd be curious to see your unofficial polling numbers.

Also what does one (Tyler Farrar) have to do with the other (critiquing Cavendish)? I really haven't noticed much if any of a following in this forum for Farrar. I have nothing against the guy but I would think there are many more here who support Greipel, Petacchi, Freire, even Kenny Van Hummel in their posts than Farrar.

Haussler was in his rights to protect himself from Cavendish. You have a rider who you can see moving in your direction it's only natural to extend your elbows to protect yourself. Had Cav not followed such an exaggerated line across the road there would've been no contact and thus no crash. It was a simple case of a rider at less than his best form desperately attempting to do the same things he's done when in peak form.
The press had been ragging on him, the results weren't flowing like they had previously and he was feeling the pressure to get a win.

 

[BroDeal]

I didn't know that many here posted their actual whereabouts. I am one in a minority. I'd be curious to see your unofficial polling numbers.

Also what does one (Tyler Farrar) have to do with the other (critiquing Cavendish)? I really haven't noticed much if any of a following in this forum for Farrar. I have nothing against the guy but I would think there are many more here who support Greipel, Petacchi, Freire, even Kenny Van Hummel in their posts than Farrar.

He doesn't need to take a poll. He just "knows" it is true, much like bigots know that Irishmen or drunks or that jews are greedy. That support for Farrar rarely rises beyond a lukewarm "meh" from anyone, Americans included, does not enter into his thinking--if you can call it that--because his thinking is not based on facts. It's based on defensive conspiracy theories as a way to rationalize away anyone pointing out that Cav is a tool.