Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

[Angliru]

Dont pretend you havent had arguments with your parents, because everyone has some, mostly for some minute matters which are totally irrelevant

Thats where you are wrong in the first place you cant look at situation without hatred to Cav so what ever he does is irrelevant anyway

...and we're to accept your opinion as unbiased? C'mon now!!

 

[El Pistolero]

Well then, in abscence of any information suggesting that Cavendish does in fact have ADHD or is an Aspie or anything of the sort, I have to conclude that he acts like that because he's a jerk.

About the "hatred": it's not "hatred." We use "hate" as a colourful substitute for our real feelings, which are more like "casual dislike." Of course you can't really "hate" someone you don't know personally, but that's just semantics.

Did you sleep during your WWII lessons at school or something?

 

[hatcher]

Did you sleep during your WWII lessons at school or something?

You're not gonna pin that on Cav.

 

[El Pistolero]

I personally find it impossible to understand how anyone can 'hate' someone who they dont know and have no direct contact with.

You really can't? Ask a Jew what they think about Hitler(or any sane person for that matter). Ask a Neo-Nazi what they think about Jews.

 

[Caruut]

My being American has absolutely no effect on my opinion of Cav. I'm not a particular fan of Farrar so that doesn't fly either. My favorite sprinter of the current active riders is Oscar Freire, a rider that Cav is quoted as saying he has the utmost respect for of all of his competitors. I can respect his talent while at the same time not appreciate his whining, the disrespect he shows to some of his opponents and his tendency to ride high and be available to the media when the going is good but become scarce when things don't go his way.

The funniest moment to me was the trying time he had the year that he went into MSR in fitful shape, when a rare-form-Greipel should've been there and his having a performance that supported Greipel's perspective of the misjustice that took place by leaving him off the start list. Cav had no wins up to that point, was taking a bit of criticism in the press and when he finally got that first win his victory salute is an obscene gesture which of course was followed by him bawling like baby on the podium. In their exchange, Greipel took the high road while Cav took the quite low road in insulting Greipel and the races he was relegated to compete in, even while Cav was in obvious much worse form than Greipel. Cav just seems to me to be a rather crude, self-centered rider with immense talent in the sprint discipline. There is no more to him than that.

It's not as though Greipel had been conducting a graceful silence over the matter, is it? And to some extent, can you not see where he's coming from - if Greipel is going to go into the media and say "I should be chosen over Cav", he should hardly be surprised when it comes right back to him. In that case he was probably right, but it's another one of those cases where if the roles had been reversed, it would be being held up in this thread as another case of arrogant Cav.

He's almost the perfect cocktail of factors to make him unpopular to some fans, I think. His wins are boring, he's not the safest rider, he's arrogant and he's outspoken. You only have to look at the way he behaves after winning to see that he's clearly a man who wears his heart on his sleeve, for better or worse.

Being British, I sort of end up supporting him, but if I weren't, I probably wouldn't.

 

[Angliru]

I personally find it impossible to understand how anyone can 'hate' someone who they dont know and have no direct contact with.

I don't "hate" any rider but I'm curious as to what context some of you are using this word. I respect his talent but have absolutely no appreciation for many of his actions/statements and I'm fairly certain many here share that viewpoint. That doesn't translate to "hate" unless you mean it in the "hater" sense and even then I don't believe that is accurate. That would imply that one is jealous/envious of someone else which is not the case for the most part based on some of arguments that are presented here.

 

[Angliru]

It's not as though Greipel had been conducting a graceful silence over the matter, is it? And to some extent, can you not see where he's coming from - if Greipel is going to go into the media and say "I should be chosen over Cav", he should hardly be surprised when it comes right back to him. In that case he was probably right, but it's another one of those cases where if the roles had been reversed, it would be being held up in this thread as another case of arrogant Cav.

He's almost the perfect cocktail of factors to make him unpopular to some fans, I think. His wins are boring, he's not the safest rider, he's arrogant and he's outspoken. You only have to look at the way he behaves after winning to see that he's clearly a man who wears his heart on his sleeve, for better or worse.

Being British, I sort of end up supporting him, but if I weren't, I probably wouldn't.

That's it in a nutshell. I'd be quite curious to find out the nationalities of those here that fervently support Cav's every indiscretion. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with it but at least you admit it. At the same time I don't blindly support every American rider that comes along. Oddly I'm more inclined to support the Spanish speaking riders for some reason. Maybe I was a Spaniard in a previous life.

 

[Angliru]

It's not as though Greipel had been conducting a graceful silence over the matter, is it? And to some extent, can you not see where he's coming from - if Greipel is going to go into the media and say "I should be chosen over Cav", he should hardly be surprised when it comes right back to him. In that case he was probably right, but it's another one of those cases where if the roles had been reversed, it would be being held up in this thread as another case of arrogant Cav.

He's almost the perfect cocktail of factors to make him unpopular to some fans, I think. His wins are boring, he's not the safest rider, he's arrogant and he's outspoken. You only have to look at the way he behaves after winning to see that he's clearly a man who wears his heart on his sleeve, for better or worse.

Being British, I sort of end up supporting him, but if I weren't, I probably wouldn't.

Greipel had every right to be upset and likely voiced these concerns to the team management along with the media. He simply made his point more graciously than Cav did. At no point did he insult Cav because every statement that Greipel made was supported by what transpired in the race.
Like I said one rider took the high road and the other took it down in the gutter.

 

[Caruut]

That's it in a nutshell. I'd be quite curious to find out the nationalities of those here that fervently support Cav's every indiscretion. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with it but at least you admit it. At the same time I don't blindly support every American rider that comes along. Oddly I'm more inclined to support the Spanish speaking riders for some reason. Maybe I was a Spaniard in a previous life.

I wouldn't like to call myself a fervent supporter, though I don't think that's what you were saying. I know I definitely support him because I'm happy when he gets a big win, but I'd say that more and more I'm a Cavendish supporter once we get to the final 1km. In contrast Wiggins is a guy I find myself completely indifferent to. Nothing about his personality or racing style makes me want much to do with him.

At the very least, when Cavendish is a contender, he guarantees 10 seconds of excitement. Either he finishes in the bunch, and you get 10 of excitement from the sprint there, or you get the 10 seconds of joy/despair (delete as applicable) when he gets dropped. More than I can say for Wiggins.

 

[Angliru]

We are apparently discussing only the final moment of the crash, where instead of backing off and letting Cav through like a timid wallflower, Haussler had the temerity to defend his position (although pretty inelegantly). What Cavendish did before then is irrelevant, because it gets in the way of enabling us to pin the blame entirely on Haussler and absolve Cavendish of responsibility for his actions.

On the other hand, re-viewing the crash allows us to see the incredible piece of bike-handling from Óscar Freire again. How he stays up is a minor miracle.

That's why they call him "The Cat"! Oscarito!!

 

[Caruut]

Greipel had every right to be upset and likely voiced these concerns to the team management along with the media. He simply made his point more graciously than Cav did. At no point did he insult Cav because every statement that Greipel made was supported by what transpired in the race.
Like I said one rider took the high road and the other took it down in the gutter.

I agree that Greipel handled things far better, but I think you're exaggerating the differences between them - they both took something to the media which should have been handled in private. Greipel did it first, Cav did it worse.

 

[Angliru]

I wouldn't like to call myself a fervent supporter, though I don't think that's what you were saying. I know I definitely support him because I'm happy when he gets a big win, but I'd say that more and more I'm a Cavendish supporter once we get to the final 1km. In contrast Wiggins is a guy I find myself completely indifferent to. Nothing about his personality or racing style makes me want much to do with him.

At the very least, when Cavendish is a contender, he guarantees 10 seconds of excitement. Either he finishes in the bunch, and you get 10 of excitement from the sprint there, or you get the 10 seconds of joy/despair (delete as applicable) when he gets dropped. More than I can say for Wiggins.

I agree with you completely. For me it's wonderful to see someone so good at what they do at their best. While his dominance definitely takes the mystery out of the sprints, one can't help but appreciate his talent and marvel at him for those 10 seconds.

As far as Wiggins he's not my type of rider either. He's quite efficient and does what another of my least favorite riders (Leipheimer) does, limits his losses in the mountains, on the very terrain where I derive my most passionate love for the sport.

 

[hrotha]

Did you sleep during your WWII lessons at school or something?

I don't hate Hitler the same way I can hate people I know, no. And that's what the folks here were arguing, whatever you call it.

 

[Angliru]

I agree that Greipel handled things far better, but I think you're exaggerating the differences between them - they both took something to the media which should have been handled in private. Greipel did it first, Cav did it worse.

I would say that by that time Greipel had enough of HTC and how he was always relegated. He was likely already looking for his next team that early in the season. At that point he had plainly seen the writing on the wall and simply didn't care. HTC knew Cav was not going to be a factor at MSR but took Cav there to pacify him. He was their marque name and making him happy was more important than actually competing for the MSR win. I'm not saying that Greipel would've won but certainly they knew that he was going to have a better chance based on his form leading up to the event than Cav and the events as they transpired bare that out.

 

[badboyberty]

Wildly swerving or making brash comments to the press or on Twitter is nothing, he's a wheelsucker and that is the most important thing to remember. Has Cav ever won from a daring breakaway under the red kite? Has he ever gave the look and then rode away from the favourites on a hors category MTF? No, he just sucks wheel's and steals the victory from the moral winner. That is why we must hate him.

 

[Martin318is]

I personally find it impossible to understand how anyone can 'hate' someone who they dont know and have no direct contact with.

Think it through a bit harder. There are any number of historical figure to whom exactly that situation applies. Hate is merely a word that has shades of grey just like any other emotion. What hate means to you would be different to what it means to others. For some it means wishing someone physical harm or worse, whereas for others they really mean that they wish the person would disappear and not be in public anymore, etc.

I agree that it makes no sense to wish Cavendish physical harm - but there are acceptable reasons for some people to wish he would go away. To them, that may well be expressed as hate.

 

[Andy99]

Wildly swerving or making brash comments to the press or on Twitter is nothing, he's a wheelsucker and that is the most important thing to remember. Has Cav ever won from a daring breakaway under the red kite? Has he ever gave the look and then rode away from the favourites on a hors category MTF? No, he just sucks wheel's and steals the victory from the moral winner. That is why we must hate him.

How many pure sprinters ever have.

All this hate certainly gives me more satisfaction every time the lad wins.

 

[Richeypen]

Think it through a bit harder. There are any number of historical figure to whom exactly that situation applies. Hate is merely a word that has shades of grey just like any other emotion. What hate means to you would be different to what it means to others. For some it means wishing someone physical harm or worse, whereas for others they really mean that they wish the person would disappear and not be in public anymore, etc.

I agree that it makes no sense to wish Cavendish physical harm - but there are acceptable reasons for some people to wish he would go away. To them, that may well be expressed as hate.

No I dont agree with that at all. Despite what some have said on here, if you give a sportsmen more that a general dislike you are taking things far too seriously.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Did you sleep during your WWII lessons at school or something?

oh you were taught to hate hitler? great history lessons

it's a lot easier to hate someone you never met then it is someone you know personally. unless that guy you know is a real *******, but not that many people are that

 

[timmers]

No I dont agree with that at all. Despite what some have said on here, if you give a sportsmen more that a general dislike you are taking things far too seriously.

Yes I think you are correct. Despise means to regard with contempt or scorn. While Hatred can result in extreme behavior including violence, murder, and war.

I suspect people who can't sprint may despise Cav but not hate him.

However cycling to me is a sport which caters for ever one so good luck to Cav when he wins a sprint.

Interestingly, Petacchi a sprinter with worse form than Cav attracts no comment which I think directly relates to the amount of coverage he gets in the english writing press.

 

[personal]

@ 56 seconds. I rest my case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNsnpmvO7YU

You really need to watch 32 - 35th second and you'll see how much Cav moves from (his) right to left and into Haussler who didn't change his direction at all.
Same is obvious in from above view ih 51-56th sec, too.
Use white lines as reference.
Cav is to blame for the crash 100%.

 

[euanli]

God, over two years later people are still arguing about that crash. People should get over it, racing incident.

 

[spalco]

Wildly swerving or making brash comments to the press or on Twitter is nothing, he's a wheelsucker and that is the most important thing to remember. Has Cav ever won from a daring breakaway under the red kite? Has he ever gave the look and then rode away from the favourites on a hors category MTF? No, he just sucks wheel's and steals the victory from the moral winner. That is why we must hate him.

Cavendish has never ever taken a win from a more deserving winner. Every single race he's ever won, if he hadn't been the first one over the line, an even worse wheelsucker would've won in his stead. In fact that person would have most likely been someone who sucked Cavendish's wheel. The argument therefore is completely without merit.

 

[Nick C.]

I've seen Greipel, Petacchi even, Farrar FFS (OK it was rolling on a descent on the Pinerolo stage or the one prior I just got around to seeing on the DVD last week but still), at the head of the field working for their teammates I have yet to see Cav do that.

 

[Andy99]

You really need to watch 32 - 35th second and you'll see how much Cav moves from (his) right to left and into Haussler who didn't change his direction at all.
Same is obvious in from above view ih 51-56th sec, too.
Use white lines as reference.
Cav is to blame for the crash 100%.

edit - wrong thread!