Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Cav has to be favourite for Qatar now. Kittel and Greipel's seasons started earlier and have been more intense than Cav's. Plus 4-1 in the Tour (and 3-0 when they've sprinter against each other and neither has been boxed in) suggests that Cav has an edge on Kittel this season

Greipel has been very poor in the Tour, Scheldeprijs and hasn't really been able to touch Kittel all season, let alone Cav. Meanwhile Sagan can't compete with the top two on a totally flat parcours, and neither can Bouhanni Kristoff and co

 

[DFA123]

Re:

A tour stage win is devalued if a rider isn't prepared, or even able, to actually complete the entire Tour. All achievements at the Tour derive their value within the context of a rider actually managing to do the 3,000+ km stage race with mountains and all.

Otherwise, they might as well allow the sprinters to sit some stages out and reenter when they feel like it.

Exactly. Perhaps Direct Energie could sign up Gregory Baugé to just ride the first couple of flat stages next year. Then when he puts out 2400 watts and rides everyone off his wheel, I assume Cav won't complain if he pulls out early.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Abandoned the tour and heading for Rio, go get the gold Cav.

Strip him of the stage wins so far please.

A track sprinter turning up with no intention, nor the shape, to finish the race, has an unfair advantage over the rest and is distorting the competition.

Well, Cipollini's got a bucketload of stages to hand back then.

Why don't you go to Demare's thread and complain about actual cheating which got brushed under the carpet rather than inventing nonsense here?

Agreed. It was wrong then, and its still wrong now, imo.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

A tour stage win is devalued if a rider isn't prepared, or even able, to actually complete the entire Tour. All achievements at the Tour derive their value within the context of a rider actually managing to do the 3,000+ km stage race with mountains and all.

Otherwise, they might as well allow the sprinters to sit some stages out and reenter when they feel like it.

Exactly. Perhaps Direct Energie could sign up Gregory Baugé to just ride the first couple of flat stages next year. Then when he puts out 2400 watts and rides everyone off his wheel, I assume Cav won't complain if he pulls out early.

If Gregory Baugé, Glaetzer, Pervis, Kenny etc were capable of winning a sprint against Cav and Kittel etc after 200km of racing, they would try. Track cyclists earn peanuts compared to Tour de France stage winners.

 

[Billie]

Re:

This is why sprinting will always be the least prestigious field in cycling.

indeed. Kittel, Greipel, Cav are great sprinters but should never be considered great riders. Also why sprinters should never be close to top 10 riders list unless they are classics hardman first like Boonen, Sagan or Kristoff

 

[kwikki]

It's a shame Cav has pulled, but understandable. He's lit the sprints up this year.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

A tour stage win is devalued if a rider isn't prepared, or even able, to actually complete the entire Tour. All achievements at the Tour derive their value within the context of a rider actually managing to do the 3,000+ km stage race with mountains and all.

Otherwise, they might as well allow the sprinters to sit some stages out and reenter when they feel like it.

Exactly. Perhaps Direct Energie could sign up Gregory Baugé to just ride the first couple of flat stages next year. Then when he puts out 2400 watts and rides everyone off his wheel, I assume Cav won't complain if he pulls out early.

If Gregory Baugé, Glaetzer, Pervis, Kenny etc were capable of winning a sprint against Cav and Kittel etc after 200km of racing, they would try. Track cyclists earn peanuts compared to Tour de France stage winners.

They'd destroy them on a pan flat stage. Doing 150 watts sitting in the middle of the peloton for four hours isn't going to diminish their sprint by very much. Even positioning wouldn't be that difficult for them with such a power advantage.

Of course, add in even a 50m climb anywhere in the last 15km and they'd be nowhere. Somewhat similar to how Cav isn't in a state to complete the Alps - neither are valid TdF cyclists in my opinion.

 

[Fergoose]

Would five more days have made that much difference. Very disappointed as he was pretty definite he'd go to Paris just a few days ago. Smells like he's been given an ultimatum.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Exactly. Perhaps Direct Energie could sign up Gregory Baugé to just ride the first couple of flat stages next year. Then when he puts out 2400 watts and rides everyone off his wheel, I assume Cav won't complain if he pulls out early.

If Gregory Baugé, Glaetzer, Pervis, Kenny etc were capable of winning a sprint against Cav and Kittel etc after 200km of racing, they would try. Track cyclists earn peanuts compared to Tour de France stage winners.

They'd destroy them on a pan flat stage. Doing 150 watts sitting in the middle of the peloton for four hours isn't going to diminish their sprint by very much. Even positioning wouldn't be that difficult for them with such a power advantage.

Of course, add in even a 50m climb anywhere in the last 15km and they'd be nowhere. Somewhat similar to how Cav isn't in a state to complete the Alps - neither are valid TdF cyclists in my opinion.

So tell me, why don't they? A stage of the TdF is more prestigious than everything track cycling has to offer, including olympic gold. The highlighted bit is not true whatsoever.

Track sprints are totally different to road sprints in multiple ways, and can't be compared whatsoever

 

[vedrafjord]

I think it would have made a big difference. Three Alpine road stages and a MTT. He barely, barely made it over the Pyrenees.

 

[Aurelio]

Cav had an amazing Tour! I would love to see him get another stage win, but it is his dream to win an Olympic Gold Medal and I think that we should respect that. He gave us fans 4 stage wins and a day in the yellow jersey, it was more than any of us would expect from him. Hope he gets his medal and comes back to the another rainbow jersey. Good job, Cav!

 

[IndianCyclist]

It was already known that his main priority was Olympics and for that most likely he had to quit the TDF. This he has done with the support of his team and BC. Does not devalue anything. Also considering the fact that the Olympic discipline is an entirely different event than road racing, it was the correct decision to do. Besides which riders quit Vuelta after their favorite terrain is over a number of times in order to prepare for worlds. IF anything is to be blamed, blame the schedule not the rider. For some like Nibali TDF was preparation (that is disrespectful to the TDF and his teammates at Astana who would love to be competitive and kill for such a chance) but at least in line with the road racing profile in Rio.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I hope wins the gold and the WC to end this season.
Then win another 5 Giro and Tour stages and 7 Vuelta stages, over the next 2-3 seasons then retire.


And I think I am the only 1 who predicted that he would wear the 1st yellow even though I was off quite a bit on his stage wins.

 

[spalco]

It might have " something " to do with the fact that as long as Sagan rides TdF, Cavendish even being second has absolutely no chance of bringing green jersey to Paris and the way Sagan is riding this year in 5 years time and Sagan having 10 x green, competition might change to 15 - 18 flat stages withy 500 points for 1st, 400 for 2nd and so on...and intermediate sprints will be abandoned all together, then and maybe only then will Cav be willing to ride full 3 weeks again....Pure and simple, no chance of green and with all the sprinters this year and win in Paris by no means guaranteed in his mind all the effort and a shot at a stage win is worth less than possible olympic gold. Not that I agree with it but he wouldn't be the first nor the last rider doing it.

Sagan is the literal personification of the kind of rider the green jersey is meant for imo.

If he wins it 20 times it would still be deserved.

And for Cav abandoning today. I normally hate this, sprinters doing a few stages and then leaving when things get hard, but this is special circumstances. It appears the Olympics have personal meaning to Cavendish, and this is his last (if still probably remote) chance to get a medal.
And he at least made a decent effort at getting over the mountains this year.

Can't blame him.

 

[spalco]

Re:

This is why sprinting will always be the least prestigious field in cycling.

Least prestigious? Hm. Certainly not to the general public (everyone likes a winner), and even among cycling fans I think it's a dubious statement.
Wikipedia classifies cyclists as "All-rounder", "Breakaway specialist", "Climber", "Domestique", "Puncheur", "Rouleur", "Sprinter", "Time trialist".

I would say sprinters are at least #3 in that list in terms of prestige, otherwise why do the teams put so much ressources in even second rate sprinters?
I doubt many riders would prefer to be a breakaway specialist if they had the speed to be a good sprinter.

 

[SKSemtex]

It looks like that plan skipping the Alps sacrificing chances in Paris (which were not very big btw with Kittel in form) and acordingly adjusting his training program brought the fruit.
I am not his big fan but I like underdogs and I like what he did to Etixx and Kittel this year. I wish him good luck in OG.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Least prestigious? Hm. Certainly not to the general public (everyone likes a winner), and even among cycling fans I think it's a dubious statement.

A sprinter will never win an epic stage.
Puncheurs, rouleurs, breakaway specialists and climbers can.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Least prestigious? Hm. Certainly not to the general public (everyone likes a winner), and even among cycling fans I think it's a dubious statement.

A sprinter will never win an epic stage.
Puncheurs, rouleurs, breakaway specialists and climbers can.

Really depends on how one describes Epic

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Least prestigious? Hm. Certainly not to the general public (everyone likes a winner), and even among cycling fans I think it's a dubious statement.

A sprinter will never win an epic stage.
Puncheurs, rouleurs, breakaway specialists and climbers can.

Really depends on how one describes Epic

Also on how one describes a sprinter. I think Sagan, Kristoff, Degenkolb, Matthews etc... are all capable of winning great stages. Cavendish obviously isn't, because he can't go solo or work in a small group for any length of time at all.

 

[kwikki]

Splitting hairs, this.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Least prestigious? Hm. Certainly not to the general public (everyone likes a winner), and even among cycling fans I think it's a dubious statement.

A sprinter will never win an epic stage.
Puncheurs, rouleurs, breakaway specialists and climbers can.

Really depends on how one describes Epic

Also on how one describes a sprinter. I think Sagan, Kristoff, Degenkolb, Matthews etc... are all capable of winning great stages. Cavendish obviously isn't, because he can't go solo or work in a small group for any length of time at all.

His performances in the British NC over the last two years prove otherwise

 

[PremierAndrew]

Dimension Data going to Tour of Britain. Could be to defend EBH's title but I'm guessing Cav will also go there as prep for the worlds. Shame, would have liked to see him at the Vuelta, chipping away at Merckx and Cipo's tallies for total GT stage wins

 

[SlickMongoose]

Re:

Dimension Data going to Tour of Britain. Could be to defend EBH's title but I'm guessing Cav will also go there as prep for the worlds. Shame, would have liked to see him at the Vuelta, chipping away at Merckx and Cipo's tallies for total GT stage wins

Hardly any sprints at the Vuelta this year.

 

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

Least prestigious? Hm. Certainly not to the general public (everyone likes a winner), and even among cycling fans I think it's a dubious statement.

A sprinter will never win an epic stage.
Puncheurs, rouleurs, breakaway specialists and climbers can.

Really depends on how one describes Epic

Cav's victory in San Remo over Haussler was quite epic/spectacular. Also because he wasn't supposed to survive the Poggio and Cipressa, a thing Boonen had mentioned many times leading to the race.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Re: Re:

Least prestigious? Hm. Certainly not to the general public (everyone likes a winner), and even among cycling fans I think it's a dubious statement.

A sprinter will never win an epic stage.
Puncheurs, rouleurs, breakaway specialists and climbers can.

Really depends on how one describes Epic

Stage 13 of the 2013 Tour count?