PCutter said:Patrick Jonker, what a plonker.
Glad he's Dutch
Thanks, but we'll pass this time around. We have more where that came from.
Thanks, but we'll pass this time around. We have more where that came from.
- Aug 12, 2009
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sairyder said:
What a dumb thing to post. She is Labor. FFS they can't even get their own house sorted out. It will all fall on deaf ears. Or don't you pay attention to politiics?
There are far more pressing matters for politicians ATM than some dude doping whilst riding for Lance. Labor won't highlight it all. Think about it. Who was the Golden Boy running around Adelaide less than two years ago? All these angry people who have suddenly grown a brain were willing to give Lance a bj 2-3 years back if he asked. And they'd have happily done it AND swallowed.
No use your brain FFS. Who was Premier in SA? How much did they pay Lance to turn up? What party are they part of? That's right, Labor. And that Premier is beyond useless like all recent Labor leaders. You need a good smack in the head. Seriously, don't do this again or I will have to rip you a new one.
Four Corners is on now. I will be back.
- Jun 16, 2009
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Well said. Mike Rann has a lot to answer for. As like many Labor leaders, they leave a very long, negative, rotten stench behind of their past work.Galic Ho said:
sairyder said:
Because Lundy is really going to do anything. She has more pressing issues like attending Football dinners, attending union functions and trying to cover up corrupt unions. Good luck with getting a reply from her.
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MattCla said:So, if you were awesome and didnt come back disillusioned from 1 year in Europe, then clearly you must have been doping... Maybe Jonkers is more uber awesome than the riders you knew
You were at the LA training camp with Jonkers or know someone who was? LA was doped to the gills going at 100% and Jonkers could keep up day after day? You know that how?
If Jonkers comes out I'll gladly admit I'm wrong but until then it's just another unstantiated smear from behind the anonymity of a keyboard. Maybe take some of that personal responsibility buddy.
Go home princess and have your cry. Greg Lemond could barely keep up after 1990 and by 1994 was getting creamed. He is arguably the most gifted natural cyclist of all time. Yet you think Jonkers, who came 12th in a year littered with dopers, could do it clean? Do everyone a favour and leave the Clinic before you get torn to shreds. Amatuer.
Edit: You know what makes this worse? The page before this and the questions you ask. All someone has done was extend that to Jonkers who most people who know anything about Aussie cycling have thought was dirty for a long time. But because you rode with him he is special. Seriously WTF? Get with the program dude or you'll be carved alive in the Clinic. Everyone is fair game, especially if you did well in the EPO era before the EPO test.
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auscyclefan94 said:
Yep that sums it up. ASADA will try and wash this aside. Like all the juicy details they already know about. They will be praying the press don't grab a hold of this and run with it because there is a lot of ammunition to be used if they dig hard and far enough.
But the thing that really gets me is that Australian taxpayer money was given to Armstrong to turn up. Reportedly over $1 million each year and this is the aftermath. Why? It's not like people weren't asking that two to three years ago. Especially of SBS journalists. I'd have my comments blocked by their mods for calling Tomo and Tan out. Now? Yeah...
Four Corners was GOLD. Man was it GOLD. Liggett is in a really really bad place. I was always perplexed at his stance. Especially after that Saffa radio rant a month back. Was he in the know and a despicable ******* or was he a naive fanboy? Fanboy it seems. He had some great quotes. First cut to him seemed like old footage, the others were clearly new. He acknowledged he doesn't know about the details (typical of Phil) but he was visibly unsettled and disturbed. His mind is plaguing him. Phil acknowledged he'd trumpeted the LA horn maybe too much but then acknowledged LA almost had to have been doping.
He was asked what he thought regarding doping. "Everyone was doping." Seemed like he was deflecting. Then he said 'It really upsets me. I think....Lance almost had to be doping." Then Phil revealed what is tormenting him. The victims. The cancer victims. He cannot fathom how anyone could make their comeback about fighting cancer, about being a hero to cancer victims, about trumpeting such a noble cause and then betraying the whole thing by doping the entire time. Liggett is gutted. Really gutted. He knows now. At least that's what he showed.
Yeah the whole thing was linear, except for the Suisse positive. Four Corners went to France, America and talked to a lot of people. No USADA, Floyd, LA camp or lawyers talked. First up was Betsy Andreu. Emma O'Reilly was next. Tyler talked to them. They mentioned the confessions regarding the hospital incident. McIlvain got a holler and so did her phone conversation with Lemond. Ressiot. The backdated TUE from 1999 was next. Then Tyler talked about how they doped, when and where. Motoman in a fuzzed out photo was used to explain how the dope came in. The SCA Promotion lawyer went over a great deal of the doping info they'd dug up. They focused heavily on 1999 for quite a while. Then they talked to the French with Ressiot. He went over the 2005 retrospective EPO positives and how his report was just brushed aside. Four Corners went to the actual AFLD laboratory and spoke with a woman who appeared to be the head of the lab. She explained what happened. Then to nail it home they asked Dr Ashenden what went on. He was critical of the UCI whilst remaining objective.
Overall it was good. Good news for White and all the Aussie boys, nobody got a mention. Not a peep. Only Ashenden and Andersen made an appearance. Phil only mentioned what Lance was like personally. Talked about his pre-cancer 1994 condition and how he clearly couldn't climb and had a poor chrono. Then Four Corners flipped to 1995 and what happened on Morotola. Clearly they finished the whole thing weeks ago before USADA published their 'Reasoned Decision.'
As for doping with Aussies. ASADA can restore some confidence quite easily. Get Dr Ashenden to go over the blood profiles of the Aussie riders linked to USADA's report who still ride (Davis and Rogers). Oh, that's right, the UCI won't let him. My bad. Ashenden made it clear on Four Corners that doping was still going on. If they need to clean up house Anne Gripper can be borrowed from Triathlon Australia. Just a thought.
Edit: I wonder if Phil is angry with Paul? The whole PR man thing for Motorola and the know well known doping that was going on must really bother Phil. After all, if he was super naive with massive fanboy glasses on, how could Paul have let him be deceived in such a way. Major embarassment. We may just never hear those two together again. Yay!!!!
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One Eyed Aussie said:
Ok, I got the home state wrong. Honestly, who is born in NSW and serves in Victoria? That's trading down. Sad.
They both caused a stir breast feeding in Parliament. Can't remember who started it, but both made the papers. It isn't relevant, just a little tid bit I added for the sake of adding it.
- Mar 10, 2009
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Galic Ho said:Ok, I got the home state wrong. Honestly, who is born in NSW and serves in Victoria? That's trading down. Sad.
They both caused a stir breast feeding in Parliament. Can't remember who started it, but both made the papers. It isn't relevant, just a little tid bit I added for the sake of adding it.
Gainsford Taylor has never been a serving politician.
Not sure that political persuasion is whats important here.Galic Ho said:
Both Sen John Faulkener (lab) and Kemp (Lib) in the past have made a serious effort to bring CA to heel in the ineffectual way they were dealing with doping in cycling - which did result in the establishment of ASADA.
I have already had a personal reply from ASADA and will keep you posted re a Lundy response.
Each to their own.
I posted a link earlier in this thread which is a good summary of the difficulties governments of both persuasions have had trying to clean up cycling in Australia.
"You need a good smack in the head. Seriously, don't do this again or I will have to rip you a new one."
Charming
Charming
- Sep 29, 2012
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Alex Simmons/RST said:
Maybe I really did get her mixed up with Marshall. My bad. I stand corrected then.
sairyder said:
Yeah, we've all heard the Mark French, Ben Kersten and Jobie Dajka stories before. ASADA will do squat. They are waiting for the month to end and hoping the UCI go to CAS. Won't matter, but they are hoping the timing of the UCI's reply to the USADA Reasoned Decision will allow them to wriggle White past everyone. The difference between them and USADA is USADA has incentive and sound moral leadership to act. If they wanted, Allan Davis would have been sanctioned long ago along with many others. They protect Australian sporting interests first and foremost. Do you remember the eight Aussie athletes who tested positive for DMAA? That's right they were never heard from again after that hit the news in late 2010.
You are literally wasting your time, especially with Labor politicians. 'Tear you a new one' in this context means I'd had to drag you through the political ins and outs on the airwaves at the moment and it wouldn't be nice.
The only response people will get will be on that says they thank you for their concern and we are investigating. They are not obligated to do anymore than that and they won't if you email them. In case you hadn't noticed, our Federal Government is in the biggest fight of their parties history. They are about to be decimated and are clawing for any ground to deflect on. The last fortnight saw arguably the lowest point in Aussie political history. The PM deflecting on sexism and defending the undefendable. The Minister for Sport will be too busy for the next month or so deciding if she is team Gillard or team Rudd.
Doping is certainly not on the agenda, least of all by Aussies who rode with Armstrong and were outed by the same testimony that unhinged Lance. Least of all when over $1 million of tax payers money was shoved into Lance's pocket to promote Adelaide and the Barossa Valley by a Labor Premier. If journalists dig hard enough they will find the IGF-1 used by so many pro cyclists is made in Adelaide.
If you want real change there is an option. Petition for Anne Gripper to leave Triathlon Australia and head the ASADA. She knows what she is doing. You might even be familiar of here time at the UCI. She was the voice of reason and then left because of her stance.
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...r-vicious-cycle-of-denial-20121015-27mzr.html
Dr Ashenden talking about CA and White..
Dr Ashenden talking about CA and White..
Kate Lundy Australian Sports Minister now talking live on ABCnews24.
Increased powers for ASADA with Australian Crime Commission
- retrospective testing - not convinced amnesty is a good idea - supporting USADA type investigation by ASADA. Law enforcement bodies to share information.
"Athletes need to speak up please call the ASADA on their hotline"
Increased powers for ASADA with Australian Crime Commission
- retrospective testing - not convinced amnesty is a good idea - supporting USADA type investigation by ASADA. Law enforcement bodies to share information.
"Athletes need to speak up please call the ASADA on their hotline"
Excellent piece from Ashenden - names and shames some of the main players in Australian Cycling.msjett said:
I saw Phil Bates interviewed on ABC news Breakfast yesterday morning even Paul Kennedy the sports journalist looked incredulous at Bates response it was totally inadequate.
- Jul 5, 2012
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contrary to some opinion, I believe an independently run Truth and Reconciliation Commission is the way forward. No sanctions for the truth now. Any revelations subsequent = life ban. Any positives subsequent = life ban. Zero tolerance for doping.
And there is no way at all White should be allowed back into any position within Cycling Australia. He is done and dusted. After not fessing up ovet the past two years since Landis spilt the beans, the nail in his coffin is sending Trent Lowe to del Moral and getting fired by "clean" Garmin.
Same problem for Dodger. Sure he has admitted he had contact with Ferrari. He did NOT say he was on Tenerife twice with him, along with Levi who was there to dope. When combined with being less than forthright over Freiburg, the press will be on this like a dog on a bone, and the Aussie public is not in a forgiving mood.
After Ashos rant in the SMH this morning, I would not be surprised if the entire top level, all those he named - Mueller, Fredericks, Bates and Turtur along with Bannon - all get dismissed. The Govt (funding), in all its desperation, cannot do nothing or face further ridicule, and could well think they will get public support for sinking the boot.
And there is no way at all White should be allowed back into any position within Cycling Australia. He is done and dusted. After not fessing up ovet the past two years since Landis spilt the beans, the nail in his coffin is sending Trent Lowe to del Moral and getting fired by "clean" Garmin.
Same problem for Dodger. Sure he has admitted he had contact with Ferrari. He did NOT say he was on Tenerife twice with him, along with Levi who was there to dope. When combined with being less than forthright over Freiburg, the press will be on this like a dog on a bone, and the Aussie public is not in a forgiving mood.
After Ashos rant in the SMH this morning, I would not be surprised if the entire top level, all those he named - Mueller, Fredericks, Bates and Turtur along with Bannon - all get dismissed. The Govt (funding), in all its desperation, cannot do nothing or face further ridicule, and could well think they will get public support for sinking the boot.
- Sep 29, 2012
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sittingbison said:
Are there enough people with enough experience in place to replace the list of names above?
I would be very surprised if any of them were replaced.
I look forward most of all to UCI's response to USADA's reasoned decision. And how CA et al respond to that response.
Heres the link for that audio with Phil Batessairyder said:
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/in...australia-criticises-whites-key-roles/1031000
- Jul 5, 2012
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Dear Wiggo said:
DW in my experience with organizations of any sort, nobody is indispensable - and it usually turns out that those we thought were irreplaceable are often shown in fact to have been hindrances. Mothers auxilliary at school, local amateur sports club, state sport federation, professional sport franchise - doesn't matter. There is ALWAYS someone ready willing and available to step up.
- Sep 29, 2012
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sittingbison said:
Ok.
Klaus, as an example, is a lawyer. I think it's going to be very difficult to shift him. (The f can be silent btw).
Cycling is an old boy's club, so even if they are replaced, I am not sure anything would change. Even White has only stepped down for the duration of an investigation - that's the writing on the wall for me.
Dear Wiggo said:
Or this was 6/7 hours at training pace with varying periods and degrees of effort. How did Jonkers do? How many were there in the group? Was Jonkers half-wheeling LA on the efforts or dropping back? If he was as strong as LA as you suggest (thanks to doping or otherwise), clearly he still wasnt enough for him to make the starting line-up for the tour that year.
There are lots of plausible possibilities which are logical. I'm not sure your argument has much merit. I train with people who are stronger than me (which is unfortunately pretty much everyone else in the group).
"
But anti-doping researcher Dr Michael Ashenden says the response from the sport's national governing body has been inadequate.
Dr Ashenden is a former independent expert for cycling's world body, the UCI, and helped develop a blood test for the banned blood booster EPO for the Sydney Olympics.
He says Cycling Australia needs a culture change and far less tolerance of drug cheating.
"They make statements recently - 'Oh this is terrible, you know, what's happened with Armstrong has shocked us, you know, we were naive'. I don't think that that is credible," he said.
"If they were even half as close to cycling as they should be, they must have known what was going on.
"And that makes their earlier comments all the more questionable as to why and what motivated them to make those statements when they should have known better."
Dr Ashenden said Cycling Australia had "denigrated" the investigation into Armstrong, saying "they labelled [USADA chief] Travis Tygart, who headed up that investigation, as some sort of maniac publicity seeker".
"They've made various statements in public about their view of the Armstrong investigation. And they denigrated the investigation.
"It was completely inappropriate. This was during the investigation but before the findings had been made public. They pre-judged the process before they even knew what it had found."
And he says Cycling Australia's comments since the Armstrong evidence was made public do not excuse its stance during the investigation.
"I'm reluctant to say that it seems convenient to me that they are following the public sentiment. And to me, leaders should lead, not follow whatever sentiment they think is going to be best for their popularity, perhaps."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-16/anti-doping-expert-takes-aim-at-cycling-australia/4315930
Ashenden cuts to the chase
But anti-doping researcher Dr Michael Ashenden says the response from the sport's national governing body has been inadequate.
Dr Ashenden is a former independent expert for cycling's world body, the UCI, and helped develop a blood test for the banned blood booster EPO for the Sydney Olympics.
He says Cycling Australia needs a culture change and far less tolerance of drug cheating.
"They make statements recently - 'Oh this is terrible, you know, what's happened with Armstrong has shocked us, you know, we were naive'. I don't think that that is credible," he said.
"If they were even half as close to cycling as they should be, they must have known what was going on.
"And that makes their earlier comments all the more questionable as to why and what motivated them to make those statements when they should have known better."
Dr Ashenden said Cycling Australia had "denigrated" the investigation into Armstrong, saying "they labelled [USADA chief] Travis Tygart, who headed up that investigation, as some sort of maniac publicity seeker".
"They've made various statements in public about their view of the Armstrong investigation. And they denigrated the investigation.
"It was completely inappropriate. This was during the investigation but before the findings had been made public. They pre-judged the process before they even knew what it had found."
And he says Cycling Australia's comments since the Armstrong evidence was made public do not excuse its stance during the investigation.
"I'm reluctant to say that it seems convenient to me that they are following the public sentiment. And to me, leaders should lead, not follow whatever sentiment they think is going to be best for their popularity, perhaps."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-16/anti-doping-expert-takes-aim-at-cycling-australia/4315930
Ashenden cuts to the chase
- Sep 29, 2012
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Man I hate inconsistencies in reporting...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-16/anti-doping-expert-takes-aim-at-cycling-australia/4315930
Former. Current.
Developed, help develop.
Meh what's the diff...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-16/anti-doping-expert-takes-aim-at-cycling-australia/4315930
Former. Current.
Developed, help develop.
Meh what's the diff...
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