Matt White stands down from all positions

[Ferminal]

It doesn't matter, if you refer someone to a doping doctor (for whatever reason), you provide them with a contact, supply line. It may simply be an unintended consequence - but if you value clean cycling, you wouldn't send anyone near him.

 

[sittingbison]

but it doesn't really matter if it was a genuine medical check up or not. del Moral is NOT who you go to. Especially if you are at Garmin. And given that White was part of Armstrongs crew, he knew everything about del Moral.

So even though it may have been a serious lack of judgement on Whites part, it is still a sackable offense for both of them because of cyclings history. Visit del Moral, Fuentes, Ferrari at your peril.

Which is why Dodger has a problem, because he is named as being on Tenerife with Ferrari in 2005, but Simeoni was chased down by Lance for testifying against Ferrari (who was banned) in 2004. So everybody in cycling knew to not go near Ferrari with a ten foot pole - even Lance - who denied knowing him in I think 2006??

Perception is everything. Especially now in cycling, where the entire world has just found out that whatever you can dream up, whatever nightmare, is real.

 

[blackcat]

Garmin is all about perception, and controlling the perception.

 

[Runitout]

I think it was Virenque, at the Festina trial, who said he didn't use Ferrari because it was like sticking a saucepan up your behind - ie, everyone knew what you were doing. That was long before Simeoni.

But I don't think Del Moral and a couple of others were quite in that category. After all, if the list of people who saw Pepe Marti got out, a few see-no-evil hear-no-evil types would be a little sheepish.

 

[blackcat]

luckyboy in the "Who are the clean teams? delusion thread"

GreenEdge's doctor is Manuel Rodriguez Alonso who has worked at ONCE, Mapei and QuickStep in the past, with Sinkewitz saying Rodriguez doped him. He has worked for Real Madrid at some point.

Whitey and Bannan hired him, but would it not be better to start from scratch. I dont see it necessary to fire white, but keep the doc. And there are only so many docs who have worked pro cycling, so it is easy to paint all with a broad brush. But pulling White only solves the problem of image.

 

[blackcat]

I think it was Virenque, at the Festina trial, who said he didn't use Ferrari because it was like sticking a saucepan up your behind - ie, everyone knew what you were doing. That was long before Simeoni.

But I don't think Del Moral and a couple of others were quite in that category. After all, if the list of people who saw Pepe Marti got out, a few see-no-evil hear-no-evil types would be a little sheepish.

Luigi Cecchini was Ferrari's rival in the preparatore stakes

 

[sairyder]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...idence-is-absent-on-white-20121018-27ufs.html

Samantha Lane is digging in the right direction

 

[Dear Wiggo]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...idence-is-absent-on-white-20121018-27ufs.html

Samantha Lane is digging in the right direction

Chapeau. It was only 2010, so finding evidence should be pretty easy...

 

[Kender]

Chapeau. It was only 2010, so finding evidence should be pretty easy...

unless they didnt contact ASADA like they claim

 

[Dear Wiggo]

unless they didnt contact ASADA like they claim

Which, as I mentioned, should be pretty easy to prove There will be documentation on both sides -

CA --> ASADA, "Is Whitey ok"? (ASADA and CA have doco of the query)
ASADA --> CA, "Yeppers". (ASADA and CA have doco of the response)

so CA should be able to easily locate their "proof" of initial contact and subsequent response. That can be in the form of email, meeting minutes, reports, etc.

Unless of course they can't, as you mention. In which case they would say they did it, rather than produce the documentation itself... It was an investigation, after all.

Oh hang on... hmmmm....

I know! Can they get backdated enquiry emails and responses?

 

[Runitout]

...and Hodge stands down. Chickens are coming home to roost.

I still think Hardie is right - picking on the riders and those of little influence is the wrong approach; this was/is endemic in cycling; the fish rots at the head, and that is where we need to direct our energies.

 

[Runitout]

Which, as I mentioned, should be pretty easy to prove There will be documentation on both sides -

CA --> ASADA, "Is Whitey ok"? (ASADA and CA have doco of the query)
ASADA --> CA, "Yeppers". (ASADA and CA have doco of the response)

so CA should be able to easily locate their "proof" of initial contact and subsequent response. That can be in the form of email, meeting minutes, reports, etc.

Unless of course they can't, as you mention. In which case they would say they did it, rather than produce the documentation itself... It was an investigation, after all.

Oh hang on... hmmmm....

I know! Can they get backdated enquiry emails and responses?

I just wonder how one can investigate something without talking to everyone involved.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

...and Hodge stands down. Chickens are coming home to roost.

I still think Hardie is right - picking on the riders and those of little influence is the wrong approach; this wa/is endemic in cycling; the fish rots at the head, and that is where we need to direct our energies.

VP of CA is the head, or close enough to it. The fact that he used to ride does not preclude him from being part of "the head".

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I just wonder how one can investigate something without talking to everyone involved.

I want to know how you investigate something without documenting it at all!?

Surely if CA were serious about this rather grave incident they would dot some i's and cross some t's when it comes to an A-OK message from:
ASADA
UCI
Jonathon Vaughters?

 

[Runitout]

VP of CA is the head, or close enough to it. The fact that he used to ride does not preclude him from being part of "the head".

Oh - I know. I'm not complaining about this. Merely that the reason he should resign is not that he doped as a rider, but that CA has been absolutely ineffectual in policing doping in cycling during his tenure - whether through incompetence or complicity is not for me to say.

 

[blackcat]

policing doping? dont they just bury it, in a see no evil hear no evil manner.

On a meta interpretation, could be interpreted as ineffectual. No policing as policing. ASADA p!$$ tests defacto standard.

 

[Pastavore]

Thanks you STephen Hodge, thats more like it. No "surprise", no "I didn't see anything", no " I only did it once". And he did it without being forced. This is along the lines of what I was hoping would happen after the Armstrong verdict, people realising that now is the perfect time to admit to past sins, fully confront the past, and move forward.

And he said sorry to friends and family.

Still a doper yes, but Waaaay ballsier than many. Stuey? Pat Jonker? are you listening?

 

[Hillavoider]

maybe its better to get out now rather then later if the USADA findings are only the tip of the iceberg

 

[LastRide]

Who will Greenedge get to replace White if they decide not to keep him on?

There is no one who can do the job as well as White. His infractions, while not small, are not really a big deal in what will become known as a very bad era for cycling.

I think White, given his relative youth, approachability and background could use his position to guide young riders in the right direction. Vaughters is just the same and doing it well.

 

[Ozzie2]

should the cyclists be able to decide by secret vote whether that have confidence in him?

would trent lowe be able to cast the deciding vote if tied?

blackcat what is the picture/ who's the woman?

 

[blackcat]

it is an impersonation of a Babushka doll and Anthony Tan winning a Cycling Australia award for best journalist.

The entry list was a sum total of one.
http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/anthony-tan/blog/121476/An-award-winning-tale

 

[Ozzie2]

If those were my odds with her.................I'd take them

 

[sittingbison]

Matt White has been sacked by OGRE "with immediate effect":
http://greenedgecycling.com/news/-anti-doping-expert-to-review-orica-greenedge-cycling-policies-

This bit is interesting:

“To maintain public confidence in our strict adherence to this principle OGE has appointed an eminent and independent external expert to audit the rigour and effectiveness of the team’s anti-doping policies and procedures.”

The team has appointed Nicki Vance to lead this review. Vance established the testing and international programs for the Australian Sports Drug Agency (ASDA) , headed up the Anti-Doping Program for the Sydney Organising Committee for the Olympic Games and was a start up Director for the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). She has been an independent anti-doping consultant since 2002.

The objectives of the Vance Review are specific and straightforward:

1. Confirm that Orica-GreenEDGE’s anti-doping policies, protocols and recruitment procedures are world’s best practice and are being implemented without exception; and
2. Recommend and oversee the implementation of any necessary enhancements.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Never heard of her - thanks for the heads up.

 

[42x16ss]

Matt White has been sacked by OGRE "with immediate effect":
http://greenedgecycling.com/news/-anti-doping-expert-to-review-orica-greenedge-cycling-policies-

This bit is interesting:

ok, so White's thrown under the bus, now what about Neil Stephens?