Matt White stands down from all positions

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm surprised that he was hired as well. I'm also surprised that JV recommended him after having fired him.

That was a clear brain fart of a decision, but I hope the current inquiry into the team will show a clean bill of health.

JV recommended Matt White? Is that something in the public arena? I thought White was on the way to OGE already, and JV was waiting for the contract to run out.

But OGRE is not 'Australia'. It's still rubbish to claim Oz is going easy on doping. If you wanted to say OGRE has up to this point gone easy on doping, I can agree with that, but it's way different to saying Australia is just looking to go easy.

Nah Jimmy means 1 Aussie poster said there should be a T&R commission, and extrapolated that to all of Australia wanting to give their doping riders - which is all of them, dirty foreigners that they are - a free pass.

If anything, OGE hiring an ex-WADA director and expert anti-doping head kicker as an external expert to give the lads a custom baggage check seems far more reliable than ... uh ... an internal "investigation" by the "team" of Brailsford and Peters, who already got it so tragically wrong the first time.

 

[Ferminal]

Will any active riders be impacted?

No.

So not exactly hard on doping, maybe they are all just clean.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Will any active riders be impacted?

No.

So not exactly hard on doping, maybe they are all just clean.

I bet you anything they sack 10x the number of riders Team Sky sack

 

[peterst6906]

JV recommended Matt White?

According to Mueller, yes.

I can't remember whether it was on an article here, or on the Cycling Central interview, but Mueller made it clear that JV had been consulted and gave a good reference.

I'll see if I can find the quote.

EIDT: 1 indirect reference here: http://www.cycling.org.au/?ID=48077 (not what I was thinking of, so I'll keep looking)

 

[Dear Wiggo]

According to Mueller, yes.

I can't remember whether it was on an article here, or on the Cycling Central interview, but Mueller made it clear that JV had been consulted and gave a good reference.

I'll see if I can find the quote.

No it's ok - I know the article you're talking about.

I would have said JV gave White a clean bill of health or something. Saying JV recommended White made me think JV induced someone to hire White when they had not been considering White as a candidate.

ie White was already on the books. Mueller only claims they asked JV his opinion - there has been no evidence presented regarding this.

Mueller also said they checked with ASDA - again, no evidence.

Note: none of the media seem to be following up these claims. And now that A/NZ have recommended Gaudrey in place of Turtur for the Oceania Confed Presidency, they are considered "good guys" and there will be no follow up.

Like the SouthPark episode "Let's distract them and get them to focus on what's really important".

 

[Mellow Velo]

JV gave White a clean bill of health?
I doubt it.
Matt sent Trent Lowe to USPS's now banned Doc Del Moral.

GreenEdge should have done a background check, ffs.
This clean up act is just a PR move.

Jimmy F must be enjoying all the wriggling around here.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

JV gave White a clean bill of health?
I doubt it.
Matt sent Trent Lowe to USPS's now banned Doc Del Moral.

GreenEdge should have done a background check, ffs.
This clean up act is just a PR move.

Jimmy F must be enjoying all the wriggling around here.

Hey MV!

1. We doubt it too - I was just clarifying the words PeterST-- wrote, mmk?
2. Mueller claims:
a. they asked JV if Whitey was ok - and got a yes (but there's no proof)
b. they asked ASDA if Whitey was ok - and got a yes (but there's no proof)

I am an Aussie and I am saying: there's no follow up to this atrocity of "background checking" that you also point out.

So to post what you have as if it's something new and groundbreaking is a little disingenuous. I'm already calling the CA board out on this BS behaviour.

As for a cleanup act being a PR move, well uh, Sky set the big, fat precedent there, buddy. Seems very hypocritical to now point the finger at OGE when they haven't crowed from as many rooftops about how ZTP and clean they are. Good grief.

Trust me, there's no wriggling. Aussies have no issue pointing the finger at their own. You Brits on the other hand....

 

[JimmyFingers]

Nah Jimmy means 1 Aussie poster said there should be a T&R commission, and extrapolated that to all of Australia wanting to give their doping riders - which is all of them, dirty foreigners that they are - a free pass.

Actually I really meant Blackcat and SttingBison in particular, who I have seen throwing as much dirt as they can over in the Sky thread, including that insulting meme from Blackcat about bad teeth, are in here actively trying to deflect accusations from the like of Cadel and being apologists for characters like White. I also mean that after some months posting here is seems there is a large enclave of Australian posters here that like Australians in general like to criticise British supporting success and have been having a field day with Wiggins and Sky, which seems hypocritical given the rot that has been exposed at the heart if Australian cycling.

And believe me Dear Wiggo, I am not accusing you of that: your criticism seems fairly even handed.

I'm glad the USADA's investigation has bought a lot of it into the light and now we are seeing active threads about Australian riders and management, because it seems there is a lot wrong there, and it asks questions of their other sportsmen too.

I like the back-tracking on White even now: he sent a rider to see a doping doctor. I believe JV fired him although did qualify that by saying the consultation wasn't suspicious, i.e. it wasn't about doping but another matter, presumably to protect the rider, but that sort of contact is enough to damn anyone in the clinic's eyes isn't it? Or is it if they're not Australian, or under an Australian's instruction?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Actually I really meant Blackcat and SttingBison in particular, who I have seen throwing as much dirt as they can over in the Sky thread, including that insulting meme from Blackcat about bad teeth, are in here actively trying to deflect accusations from the like of Cadel and being apologists for characters like White. I also mean that after some months posting here is seems there is a large enclave of Australian posters here that like Australians in general like to criticise British supporting success and have been having a field day with Wiggins and Sky, which seems hypocritical given the rot that has been exposed at the heart if Australian cycling.

Ya know what's ironic about all the dodgy ex-doping Aussie riders in positions of authority?

British Cycling is stuffed full of the same Aussie riders from the same generation

Look, it's as plain as the nose in the glass jar behind me that people are patriotic. So to notice Aussies taking a hall pass for their own is no worse than the utter drivel armchairclimber et al come up with in the Sky / Wiggins threads. At least the Aussie apologists don't try to deceive everyone with the fanboy mantra of "I AM NOT A FAN". That's worse than any apologist behaviour IMO - outright falsehoods.

So yes, it's possible the behaviour is as you suggest, but it's not unusual. You only have to see the Germans defend Voigt or ChrisE defend LA or that weird Spanish loving chickie laflorecita thingamabob defending Clenbutador to see different people stick up for whom they consider "their" riders.

I don't think it adds anything to the discussion to point it out so vociferously, however, but again, that's your call.

The one defender I don't understand is Krebs Cycle. Not fully anyway. Still trying to nut that one out. It's tough. Maybe I should pray about it... hmmm...

They're now saying the Nicki Vance probe is going to hopefully be completed by July 2013. I call BS on that immediately - that's just Tour de Frigging France proportions of ridiculous.

And we have Brailsford to complete his uh British inquisition and purge.

I'm finding either process dubious, but prepared to sit back and watch. You know cycling has actually been through a lot worse and survived and continued to grow. I am not concerned in the least of it dying, and if it by some fluke did, it would make a delightful phoenix upon its return.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I have no problem with people being patriotic, except I have seen Australians turn around and lay into Brits when they are being so. In fact British was a dirty word here during the Olympics and some of the cultural stereotypes and misinformation I heard being said about my country and its athletes frequently crossed into the xenophobic, which is why the Brits in return came out swinging. Most recently Blackcat posted that meme about British people having bad teeth and frankly I am at a loss as to why that has any place in doping discussions, when I called him on it, Hrothra came out defending it and said 'it's funny and acceptable because British people come on here and say its not in our culture to dope'.

as I said after several months of posting I have satrted to see a large contingent of Australian posters that enjoy attacking the British riders and teams. If you are going to say to me there isn't an anti-British sentiment in Australian society when it comes to sport then I call bull**** on that. The sporting rivalry is long establish and fierce, and Australians have always been very free in deriding British (and in particular English) sporting success, from cricket through rugby and the Olympics. It seems cycling is the new battleground, and it seems doping accusations is the easiest way to do it.

When they're own house is in utter disarray.

I have no problem with objective debate over doping, but too often it becomes nasty with cultural slurs being flung around which belies people's true motives. You want cycling to clean up is one thing, and I want that more than anything, but don't use it as a way to smear success for the sake of it.

Just sayin'

Back on topic: I hope Aussie cycling gets its house in order, bizarrely I like riders like Cadel, Goss, Gerrans and Porte and want to enjoy watching them ride without doubts

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I have no problem with people being patriotic, except I have seen Australians turn around and lay into Brits when they are being so.

I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but do you know the history of CN?

It was started by an Aussie and so the Aussie contingency is due to the perception we have of it being an Aussie site. I think Benson is Aussie.

The site is now owned by a UK company, but it still reeks of Aussie content and clearly there are many Aussie posters.

If you hate the sledging, there are UK sites that have told Darryl Webster to p-ss off and literally banned him as they stickied his post and badmouthed him for a week or more - simply coz he was prepared to dare mention Brits had doped.

I'm not telling you to p-ss off, but if it is really getting to you, a UK website discussing cycling would be far better for your mental health. Complaining about the sledging alas is only going to reinforce the behaviour at worst, and I can guarantee unless you flag posts they are not going to change.

Krebs crapped on about the whole UK vs Aus sport thing and it really shows just how weird er I mean atypical I am, coz I honestly couldn't give a toss either way.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I am interested to know what folks think of this, "conclusion by July........probably".
I appreciate that given a time frame is a bit like asking how long is a piece of string, but, it does seem like an inordinately long span.
8 months to audit a year or so's work?
Must be honest, naming July as the month to announce findings, is either bad, or convenient, depending on how sceptical one is in the first place.

Do we expect other personnel to be shown the door in the interim, or will the lid be firmly nailed down until post Tour, 2013?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I am interested to know what folks think of this, "conclusion by July........probably".
I appreciate that given a time frame is a bit like asking how long is a piece of string, but, it does seem like an inordinately long span.
8 months to audit a year or so's work?
Must be honest, naming July as the month to announce findings, is either bad, or convenient, depending on how sceptical one is in the first place.

Do we expect other personnel to be shown the door in the interim, or will the lid be firmly nailed down until post Tour, 2013?

This :

They're now saying the Nicki Vance probe is going to hopefully be completed by July 2013. I call BS on that immediately - that's just Tour de Frigging France proportions of ridiculous.

And we have Brailsford to complete his uh British inquisition and purge.

I'm finding either process dubious, but prepared to sit back and watch. You know cycling has actually been through a lot worse and survived and continued to grow. I am not concerned in the least of it dying, and if it by some fluke did, it would make a delightful phoenix upon its return.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Krebs crapped on about the whole UK vs Aus sport thing and it really shows just how weird er I mean atypical I am, coz I honestly couldn't give a toss either way.

I didn't realise it was an Aussie site to be frank, because it's a .com not a .au I actually took a lot of the posters here to be American to start with, but as I said it gradually dawned on me, and that further explains why the amount of forum bandwidth discussion of Sky gets.

And I don't mind sledging, but this is a forum discussing doping, so I do feel cultural jibes are out of place, but I know sledging is a national obsession down there so I don't see that it will change any time soon. I'm pretty thick-skinned and not afraid of a bit of verbals.

I do remember when Gallic Ho invited me to Australia so he could punch me in the face, you actually said you'd take me for a beer, which I always appreciated, so cheers.

 

[peterst6906]

I am interested to know what folks think of this, "conclusion by July........probably".
I appreciate that given a time frame is a bit like asking how long is a piece of string, but, it does seem like an inordinately long span.
8 months to audit a year or so's work?
Must be honest, naming July as the month to announce findings, is either bad, or convenient, depending on how sceptical one is in the first place.

Do we expect other personnel to be shown the door in the interim, or will the lid be firmly nailed down until post Tour, 2013?

I think it's a sign that this will be a real inquiry.

When you know the outcome ahead of time, it's easiest to plan the release for a time when it will get the broadest coverage and make you look good.

If on the other hand, it's going to be bad or the outcome is uncertain, good to schedule it for a time when any bad news won't be headlined for too long.

Could be I'm too optimistic of the motive and cynical about the reason.

 

[veganrob]

Hey MV!

1. We doubt it too - I was just clarifying the words PeterST-- wrote, mmk?
2. Mueller claims:
a. they asked JV if Whitey was ok - and got a yes (but there's no proof)
b. they asked ASDA if Whitey was ok - and got a yes (but there's no proof)

I am an Aussie and I am saying: there's no follow up to this atrocity of "background checking" that you also point out.

So to post what you have as if it's something new and groundbreaking is a little disingenuous. I'm already calling the CA board out on this BS behaviour.

As for a cleanup act being a PR move, well uh, Sky set the big, fat precedent there, buddy. Seems very hypocritical to now point the finger at OGE when they haven't crowed from as many rooftops about how ZTP and clean they are. Good grief.

Trust me, there's no wriggling. Aussies have no issue pointing the finger at their own. You Brits on the other hand....

Agree here. The report is very vague and really does not say a thing. CA will only get answers to questions they ask, and we don't know what they were.
They may have only asked if he has a valid drivers livense.
And I'm sure Sky did the exact same thing with all their employees. No hard questions, no disturbing answers.

"I know nothing". Sgt Schultz.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I do remember when Gallic Ho invited me to Australia so he could punch me in the face, you actually said you'd take me for a beer, which I always appreciated, so cheers.

Offer still stands

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I think it's a sign that this will be a real inquiry.

When you know the outcome ahead of time, it's easiest to plan the release for a time when it will get the broadest coverage and make you look good.

If on the other hand, it's going to be bad or the outcome is uncertain, good to schedule it for a time when any bad news won't be headlined for too long.

Could be I'm too optimistic of the motive and cynical about the reason.

July 2013 (Centenary TdF time) seemed ominous to me. I mean. 240 days - that's 10 days / team member or something. What the? And just in time for the Tour. Timing seems weird. Just plain weird.

 

[RichWalk]

Krebs crapped on about the whole UK vs Aus sport thing and it really shows just how weird er I mean atypical I am, coz I honestly couldn't give a toss either way.

Its a sub plot to society & most especially sport btwn the two countries, I've never seen it as more than friendly banter/rivalry which IMO is good for sport!

The problem us English/Brits have specifically regarding cycling is for the general public its a recent successful media phenominia and even for cyclists a bizarre turn around of fortunes. Then of course its timing, with the LA affair its pulled the rug from under our 'celebration' of UK cycling and cast doubt amongst any who delve into events, on any level. This of course confuses and often results in defensive responses (I would hope not in here but it happens).

At the start of this year, for the first time ever I had mates ask me if I thought Wiggins could win the Tour, and I said yes, go back 12 months and a few would know Cav won in Paris and thats it regards general sports interest in cycling.
He wins then one of the only cyclists even non sports fans have heard of gets busted wide open and discredits years of cycling history; Sky/Brailsford who have been following a very *similar sucess based formula* to other big teams, suddenly find their huge impetus annuled by scandal and rummour....

Gives you an inkling as to what the average Brit fan has gone through in a very short time span, remember we are used to celebrating useless *wats on bilge like X-factor over here, we get some media championed actual achievers and they get buried by a sport riddled with corruption and cheating!

 

[Mellow Velo]

July 2013 (Centenary TdF time) seemed ominous to me. I mean. 240 days - that's 10 days / team member or something. What the? And just in time for the Tour. Timing seems weird. Just plain weird.

What a difference a month makes.
Were it June, then we would have the result before the Tour.
Since the Tour starts before July 1st, this means nothing until after the Tour.
No way the findings come out mid race, imo.

Weird in the extreme.

Bound to fuel the cynics.

 

[Ferminal]

How else would you expect them to make headlines in July?

 

[peterst6906]

Latest changes across sport in Australia, all olympic sport athletes to legally declare they have never used PEDs or face exclusion from Olympic teams:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...tion-to-thwart-the-cheats-20121102-28pjy.html

 

[will10]

Latest changes across sport in Australia, all olympic sport athletes to legally declare they have never used PEDs or face exclusion from Olympic teams:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...tion-to-thwart-the-cheats-20121102-28pjy.html

How is that an incentive to do anything but keep lying?

 

[peterst6906]

How is that an incentive to do anything but keep lying?

Lying on a stat dec is an offence punishable with up to 5 years in prison (though very, very rarely does it result in imprisonment - more commonly a fine and criminal record).

Deciding to lie on a legal document is not something all athletes would do (I'm sure some would) so the addition of this step will assist in two ways:

1. Make athletes think about the consequences of doping in terms of their legal liability
2. Result in self exclusion of some athletes who have doped

It might also result in greater resistance to approaches to doping in some athletes who have already made a declaration of being clean.

There are probably other possible benefits of this step as well.

 

[Galic Ho]

Offer still stands

He was never invited to Australia to get punched in the face. He was warned if he went to Australia and sprouted his nonsense that any Aussie would beat the nine shades of *** out of him for talking smack. I simply called his bluff and dared him to say Aussies are crap to the next one he meets, face to face.

We already know how that went.

Personally the route these morons in charge of things Down Under are taking is disgusting. Had a go at the Olympic guys on their Facebook page. Was disgusting. John Coates and co are copying those idiots at Sky. They're forcing people to lie to keep doing their job and chasing their dream.

Meanwhile, how many new tests are coming in? Where is the extra scrutiny? How many of the management who have been twiddling their thumbs whilst whole sports dope are left in charge? The change needs to begin with management. Not the athletes. There are too many decrepit and useless former dopers running the show it isn't funny. Enablers. They all need to go. Getting rid of just Matt White is symbolism used as a PR gesture. Nothing but blatant tokenism. It's pointless and wrong. Either get them all out, or do something else.