Matt White stands down from all positions

[Galic Ho]

I didn't realise it was an Aussie site to be frank, because it's a .com not a .au I actually took a lot of the posters here to be American to start with, but as I said it gradually dawned on me, and that further explains why the amount of forum bandwidth discussion of Sky gets.

And I don't mind sledging, but this is a forum discussing doping, so I do feel cultural jibes are out of place, but I know sledging is a national obsession down there so I don't see that it will change any time soon. I'm pretty thick-skinned and not afraid of a bit of verbals.

I do remember when Gallic Ho invited me to Australia so he could punch me in the face, you actually said you'd take me for a beer, which I always appreciated, so cheers.

Oh princess go and do some bloody research. The parent company is British but this site was started by an Aussie back in 1995. He sold the site because he was threatened by LA and his goons legally. Just like the owners of team Sky and all the initial consultants. All predominantly Aussie. British ingenuity? There is none. It's bought and borrowed from foreigners.

Verbals? You've shown your colours numerous times and you hate being called out as the hypocrit you are. You have no thick skin at all, none. You were the one who started attacking Aussies in the Sky thread...despite the Aussies ripping into Rogers and Porte first and foremost. You do mind sledging because you don't have the nads to stomach any of it. Everything said about anything touching Sky is deemed by you and others to be an attack on Britain. Yet when it comes to calling your own out, you are all silent.

Once again, your aim is to derail threads. At least Melo Vellow rises something here...even though he is really here to keep tabs. Once again, you seem to lack the fortitude for the Clinic. Do everyone a favour, go outside have your cry and don't come back. Have you defended Darryl yet? No, that wouldn't be the British thing to do would it? Do you really expect us all to be so bland and daft to think that you found this forum and didn't realise it was populated by all different nationalities? I mean seriously, you thought it was mostly yanks? You really are dense...as I said, get outside and get some sun...oh snap, that's a bit hard isn't it?

So for once in an Aussie oriented thread, what is your stance on the OP? Or are you just going to ramble on AGAIN and obstruct discussion?

Dear Wiggo, please stop engaging this guy...his type have been on the forum for ages and they rarely mention anything of value. Their aim is crystal clear...obstruct the function of the clinic. Think I am wrong? How many times has Jimmy stayed on topic or talked about doping and contrast that with how many times they run off on a tangent? There is a reason the former happens predominantly...run the numbers and quit engaging the you know what.

As for the Brits deflecting on the idiots at Greenedge? Sky have fired and let go more dopers than Greenedge have or will have to do. That says enough about how bad Sky's PR has been. All deceit and lies. Oh and the guy spreading the lies is in charge of investigating...how rich? That's like robbing the bank and asking the thief to conduct an investigation. Nothing to see here people.

BTW...a proper audit is never conducted by one person. Ever. Sheesh, who is writing these bad PR stories?

 

[JimmyFingers]

sounds like you need a hug

 

[Hugh Januss]

Offer still stands

Should never punch someone in the face without buying them a beer first.

*Hockey rules.

 

[sittingbison]

I would like to know how stating that pro cycling needs a truth and reconciliation commission is in any way a defence of White, OGRE or CA?

And where have I defended White?

JimmyFinger has gone completely insane. The pressure of defending the indefensible has caught up with him.

BTW Evans is on Evans thread. I thought I was pretty even handed on that, listing for and against arguments and defences. Given the best argument against is his performances against known dopers, I said I CHOSE to accept him, but I think it's pretty clear I have many reservations. I have maintained that position for every rider with this particular argument, rather than assuming the scorched earth policy of garlic or benotti.

I am aghast at ANYONE using jingoism and making wild accusations. FRAKKING outrageous. If a Pom can't handle there own dodgy team being scrutinized for very legitimate reasons, none in fact debunked, and then acting like jackbooted storm troopers, they need to HTFU

 

[Galic Ho]

Should never punch someone in the face without buying them a beer first.

*Hockey rules.

I know it rules. I played hockey. Hockey players carry weapons. That is how cool hockey is. If Matt White was an Australian hockey player he wouldn't be in this mess right now. I don't hear any talk about them doping and they're the best players and team in the world...except from when they have brain meltdowns.

 

[Galic Ho]

I would like to know how stating that pro cycling needs a truth and reconciliation commission is in any way a defence of White, OGRE or CA?

And where have I defended White?

JimmyFinger has gone completely insane. The pressure of defending the indefensible has caught up with him.

BTW Evans is on Evans thread. I thought I was pretty even handed on that, listing for and against arguments and defences. Given the best argument against is his performances against known dopers, I said I CHOSE to accept him, but I think it's pretty clear I have many reservations. I have maintained that position for every rider with this particular argument, rather than assuming the scorched earth policy of garlic or benotti.

I am aghast at ANYONE using jingoism and making wild accusations. FRAKKING outrageous. If a Pom can't handle there own dodgy team being scrutinized for very legitimate reasons, none in fact debunked, and then acting like jackbooted storm troopers, they need to HTFU

I treat everyone the same dude. Well pretty much. I make an exemption for those who go from pure crap groupetto trash to worlds best. And that will never ever be Cadel Evans. He is the one GC guy I can make a case for remaining a winner if everyone raced clean. Actually he'd be a bigger winner.

Can't say that for any Brit or current American rider. Not one. They'd barely make impacts. Ok, maybe Tejay van Garderen would be up winning, but not Talansky. I think if it were clean, Chavanel would win a lot more. Cancellara would be unstoppable. I think the worlds best sprinter would be a German and no his name isn't Kittel (but he'd still be good). Where would the Spanish stand? Contador and Valverde would still be winners...GC winners in GT's? Man, I simply don't know. Possibly AC.

For some odd reason lately I've been thinking if it were all clean, Andy Schleck would still be a big GC rider. A few of the Dutch boys impress me. I think their prospect would improve. Also Kreuziger. Always liked his talent. Dope just doesn't work for him like it does Nibali. Nibali is the better responder, Kreuziger is the bigger natural unjuiced talent. How would the Aussies go? Apart from Cadel, not one of them is a GT winner. Not one. Maybe Porte could top 10, but that's it. Bobridge is a natural chrono winner, but he cannot climb to save himself. Look at his Giro rides for proof...second last on GC twice. Rohan Dennis? Who knows.

But at the end of it all it doesn't matter. Those guys aren't going to run into Matt White anymore. He's been turfed. I will have to disagree with you Bison...I think he didn't need to go. He's being used as a scapegoat to deflect proper criticism from where it should be. As for the guys above, are they still riding on teams with dodgy former riders who were major dopers. Nibali and Kreuziger are a big yes. Astana and Vino. Contador still has Riis. Schleck still rides for Radioshack and sure Bruyneel is gone, but the team is still littered with enablers.

So how to fix it? That truth commission is a start but it needs provisions. First, you cop a ban. Second, you disclose the whole truth. Lie and you do gaol time. The whole damn truth. Put down a time limit. You come forward, you keep results within reason (aka, if you doped this year then they are discarded) and you show your BioPassport and they measure your physical stats. Weight, height, blood, VO2max @ FTP. Get Ashenden and the body he works with to vet it all and crunch the numbers. You get caught after the time period for a past transgression...instant life ban. No questions asked. They instigate a brand new classification for certain drugs. Blood doping, epo use or transfusions (BioPassport violations here) then bam, four year non negotiable ban. Make it two if you tell suppliers names and handlers. Other stuff can be less IMO. Two years. No role in cycling ever again.

But that is the problem Bison. The calls for a truth commission are to save jobs and hides. To let people get off the hook. That ain't good IMO. It's part of the cycling is now clean movement. That rides do not cheat anymore, that was the past. It's to let older folk clear the weight off their chests and in doing so alleviate the doubt and criticism cycling has. It's not about actually cleaning the sport up and making measures stricter and adding accountability and transparency. It's about shifting blame and trying to refocus the PR message of a clean sport now. A truth commission has merit, but the people who would conduct it would not do it justice. Same gooses running the show now and they're BS artists and masters.

 

[sittingbison]

garlic that pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. It would be almost impossible to organize and facilitate.

Probably what I'm trying to express is the idea that cycling needs some kind of holistic process rather than the piecemeal reactive BS we are seeing with Brailsford and CA. Cycling certainly needs something, all these comments "it's different now, cleaner. Lets move on" are rubbish. One thing that's wrong is White, Julich et al getting vilified and sacked when other bottom feeding scumbags are not, and other decent blokes but past or present dopers are not

BTW I haven't got the slightest problem with your approach, or benottis for instance. I just prefer to think along slightly different lines particularly on this one issue of "they all did it".

 

[M Sport]

So he gets six months? Obviously threw some other riders under the bus otherwise he should have got at least a year. What really sucks balls is he is probably going to get his GreenEdge job back. What next David Kemp given a job there as well?

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...ter-six-months-in-sin-bin-20130503-2iy7z.html

Still repeating the mantra "we had to do it" and "it was expected of pro riders" pfffttt.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

So he gets six months? Obviously threw some other riders under the bus otherwise he should have got at least a year. What really sucks balls is he is probably going to get his GreenEdge job back. What next David Kemp given a job there as well?

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...ter-six-months-in-sin-bin-20130503-2iy7z.html

Still repeating the mantra "we had to do it" and "it was expected of pro riders" pfffttt.

If Matt White engaged in bus-throw-undery it was in a very discrete way. I have not heard of nor seen a single rider or admin person shunt.

The USPS guys had to sign affidavits - I guess ASADA must have something from White to justify his very short suspension? Strange that nothing was mentioned. We're just supposed to accept the term. No journos seem to be pursuing this either?

 

[hrotha]

If Matt White engaged in bus-throw-undery it was in a very discrete way. I have not heard of nor seen a single rider or admin person shunt.

The USPS guys had to sign affidavits - I guess ASADA must have something from White to justify his very short suspension? Strange that nothing was mentioned. We're just supposed to accept the term. No journos seem to be pursuing this either?

Considering we just learned about the ban after it was over, I wouldn't get my hopes high.

 

[timmers]

Considering we just learned about the ban after it was over, I wouldn't get my hopes high.

Its the same punishment as the Yanks so I would imagine that he confessed to doping on USPostal years ago and that was it. When did he last ride in Aussie? I would of thought in the late 80's and in recent years he DS'd in Aussie for Garmin a clean team so there would be nothing to say!

 

[hrotha]

Its the same punishment as the Yanks so I would imagine that he confessed to doping on USPostal years ago and that was it. When did he last ride in Aussie? I would of thought in the late 80's and in recent years he DS'd in Aussie for Garmin a clean team so there would be nothing to say!

It's not the same punishment. For one, the punishment of the Yanks was made public from the beginning. Surely you find the lack of transparency troubling?

 

[peterst6906]

It's not the same punishment. For one, the punishment of the Yanks was made public from the beginning. Surely you find the lack of transparency troubling?

The ban was only issued last week. It was backdated, so it took effect in the period he has already been unemployed.

Apparently, light because of his cooperation. Matt announced the ban almost immediately after it was issued.

Whether the actions of ASADA are satisfactory is another thing, but not an issue of transparency.

Ban issued, announced but already over.

 

[neineinei]

We know that USADA was present at the interviews of Steffen Kjærgaard and Michael Rasmussen. One would think they have been talking to Matt White too. Bruyneel and them still haven't had their hearing...

 

[timmers]

It's not the same punishment. For one, the punishment of the Yanks was made public from the beginning. Surely you find the lack of transparency troubling?

Well I don't like back-dated bans and yes I think that the opening of the hearing into Matt White should have been made public. I am not sure if that happened. I assume the decision will be available on the ASADA web site at some point.

However I can't imagine that he has incriminated any other people covered by ASADA and his Spanish connections have been caught by USADA.

 

[hrotha]

I stand corrected then.

 

[spalco]

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentra...opens-up-on-doping-past-on-Cycling-Central-TV

What a slimy, lying piece of ****.

Never knew about Lance or anything he did, and it was all those dirty Europeans' fault he was forced to dope.

I'm hoping against better judgement this ****** never gets a job in cycling again.

 

[del1962]

What I don't understand is when USADA approached him he would not co-operate because he wanted to speak with ASADA.

Was he really hoping he would not come out in statement and this would blow over?

I would like to know if USADA verify that they would not let him talk to ASADA until the reasoned decsiion was made public?

 

[thehog]

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentra...opens-up-on-doping-past-on-Cycling-Central-TV

What a slimy, lying piece of ****.

Never knew about Lance or anything he did, and it was all those dirty Europeans' fault he was forced to dope.

I'm hoping against better judgement this ****** never gets a job in cycling again.

Should be plenty of "yeh, nah, yeh nah, stuey mate, stuey mate, yeh, nah"

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

What a great inteview, was this an online job interview for a spot on Garmin?

The boy talks the Garmin talk.

What a f@cker.

Never doped when he was in Australia of course.

Sure.

Even his forehead grew during the interview.

Victim of those nasty Europeans.

Pincocchio.

 

[pmcg76]

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentra...opens-up-on-doping-past-on-Cycling-Central-TV

What a slimy, lying piece of ****.

Never knew about Lance or anything he did, and it was all those dirty Europeans' fault he was forced to dope.

I'm hoping against better judgement this ****** never gets a job in cycling again.

Where in the interview does White say anything about not knowing what Armstrong was up to?? He said he never discussed doping with Lance which is not unfeasible considering A/White never was in the Tour team and B/lived in Valencia as opposed to Girona. Based on the statements of the other former Posties, some had very little to no contact with Lance and never discussed doping with him either.

Not discussing doping with Armstrong or saying Armstrong had no influence on him starting to dope is not the same as not knowing what he was up to. Can't wait to Dear Wiggo gets here as he made a big deal earlier about people taking things out of context so he will be really angry when he sees your post.

Secondly the environment around you has a huge impact on your decisions, lets be honest here, your choices in the 90s if you made it pro were dope or GTFO. If those are your choices, then it is perfectly understandable why some chose the doping route. White doesn't blame the Euro's, merely describes the state of affairs which has been echoed by more or less every other rider from that period who faced those decisions.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Secondly the environment around you has a huge impact on your decisions, lets be honest here, your choices in the 90s if you made it pro were dope or GTFO. If those are your choices, then it is perfectly understandable why some chose the doping route. White doesn't blame the Euro's, merely describes the state of affairs which has been echoed by more or less every other rider from that period who faced those decisions.

Must be because EPO wasnt around in Australian cyling?

Australia is always somehow slower to catch on to doping practices, must be said. Wim Vansevenant approves this message.

White talks the talk and nowadays does the Johnny V walk.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Where in the interview does White say anything about not knowing what Armstrong was up to?? He said he never discussed doping with Lance which is not unfeasible considering A/White never was in the Tour team and B/lived in Valencia as opposed to Girona. Based on the statements of the other former Posties, some had very little to no contact with Lance and never discussed doping with him either.

Not discussing doping with Armstrong or saying Armstrong had no influence on him starting to dope is not the same as not knowing what he was up to. Can't wait to Dear Wiggo gets here as he made a big deal earlier about people taking things out of context so he will be really angry when he sees your post.

Some people see anger everywhere - I wonder if they are projecting. Hmmm.

That said - if anyone actually believes this puff piece by White, I have a nice bridge for sale they may be interested in.

The take away bits for me were

I stopped in the last year of my career. I stopped because I had enough.

(his results from penultimate year - 2006 - look no different to 2007. Had enough el oh el. 2007 he stopped - damn he missed the USADA "we all stopped" narrative by a year...)

and

I grew up racing for the AIS, racing for Australian national teams and we were not exposed to any of that kind of stuff,”

My research of AIS around that time - particularly the track team - shows a slightly different version of events.

 

[Benotti69]

the best reference for getting a job in cycling

Lance Armstrong ‏@lancearmstrong

Matt "Whitey" White nails it

Cant be long before Whitey is back in there doing what he does best.

Garmin cannot be 'proud' of their hiring of a less than white character like 'Whitey' but then again not much is really white on Garmin.

 

[spalco]

Garmin cannot be 'proud' of their hiring of a less than white character like 'Whitey' but then again not much is really white on Garmin.

For their credit though, I can't see Garmin hiring him again even to clean their bicycles. If that did happen, my opinion would turn immediately.