Teams & Riders Matteo Jorgenson and his inexorable rise to the top

[P4rthen0n]

Bleeding out..57:32 back..Simmons suffering!! Two hours and 2 minutes out the back!!

That's... mind-blowing.
Something must be wrong with it. It's not normal for him to break this hard on climbs.

 

[SafeBet]

Biggest disappointment of the Tour thus far. Hopefully he can be of some support for Vingo in the Alps, but I'm not confident.
And the whole plan of having him lead a GT next year seems far fetched now.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Biggest disappointment of the Tour thus far. Hopefully he can be of some support for Vingo in the Alps, but I'm not confident.
And the whole plan of having him lead a GT next year seems far fetched now.

Something might just have gone wrong for the Tour, looking at his Paris-Nice and Dauphine performances over the last 2 years + the last TdF he's a top rider.

 

[theyoungest]

I think he's perhaps a bit sick, has a cold. We get a daily interview with him from Campenaerts and he doesn't look and sound that good.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Biggest disappointment of the Tour thus far. Hopefully he can be of some support for Vingo in the Alps, but I'm not confident.
And the whole plan of having him lead a GT next year seems far fetched now.

Don't know, this is so far of his normal level that I wonder if it's a meaningful sample of his possibilities in GTs.
Would also guess he is sick.

 

[SafeBet]

Something might just have gone wrong for the Tour, looking at his Paris-Nice and Dauphine performances over the last 2 years + the last TdF he's a top rider.

No doubt he's top rider for one week stage races.
GTs? Jury's still out. Last year he finished 8th, he was 17 minutes behind third place Evenepoel and 7 minutes behind 4th place Almeida.
I concur something must have gone wrong in his prep for this Tour but I also think we got ahead of ourselves in predicting he would be a legit podium candidate.

His physical specimen doesn't exactly scream GT specialist either. Thymen Arensman was a more natural climber from the get go and has yet to prove he can achieve a GT podium.

 

[Psycat]

Biggest disappointment of the Tour thus far. Hopefully he can be of some support for Vingo in the Alps, but I'm not confident.
And the whole plan of having him lead a GT next year seems far fetched now.

Threeway tie for me between him, Adam Yates and Remco. Honorable mention to Wout but I didn't expect all that much.

Also given that not much change I would like to see Visma go with Simon Yates for next year as Tour leader, aim for podium, and have Vinge dodge Pogacar to give the Giro or Vuelta(preferably both) a shot.

 

[Red Rick]

No doubt he's top rider for one week stage races.
GTs? Jury's still out. Last year he finished 8th, he was 17 minutes behind third place Evenepoel and 7 minutes behind 4th place Almeida.
I concur something must have gone wrong in his prep for this Tour but I also think we got ahead of ourselves in predicting he would be a legit podium candidate.

His physical specimen doesn't exactly scream GT specialist either. Thymen Arensman was a more natural climber from the get go and has yet to prove he can achieve a GT podium.

Caveat on his TdF last year being he rode as a domestique and he torched himself for Vingegaard at least once. But yeah I don't think he's the most natural GT rider, but to me he's the sort of guy who may be a threat in a weak, rainy Giro.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I have been hyping him up all season, and I would really have found it funny if he (or anyone else for that matter) had ended up winning the Tour in a Carapaz/S.Yates-esque fashion, but it wasn't to be. At least not for now. I now have no idea what his ceiling actually is, but I hope we're not dealing with another case of the Kussing disease.

 

[Vinther1991]

Frankly, it is a disgrace he is trying to get in the breakaway today. He finished in the groupetto yesterday, when he could have been of great use for Jonas. Should be taking an easy day today so he can help in the alps.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I have been hyping him up all season, and I would really have found it funny if he (or anyone else for that matter) had ended up winning the Tour in a Carapaz/S.Yates-esque fashion, but it wasn't to be. At least not for now.

Based on what? His entire season was less stellar than it was last year, so as i predicted last month, i did not expect him to do better this year at all. His best ever GT result was last year, so it's not as if he has shown the pedigree before that either. His best youth GC was 4th in Isard back in 2019, he is not at all a natural climber/GC rider. Why on earth would you entertain the idea of him to be anywhere close enough to go for a Carapaz/Yates win against this opposition here? He finished nearly half an hour down in GC last year. How much did you expect him to improve?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Based on what? His entire season was less stellar than it was last year, so as i predicted last month, i did not expect him to do better this year at all. His best ever GT result was last year, so it's not as if he has shown the pedigree before that either. His best youth GC was 4th in Isard back in 2019, he is not at all a natural climber/GC rider. Why on earth would you entertain the idea of him to be anywhere close enough to go for a Carapaz/Yates win against this opposition here? He finished nearly half an hour down in GC last year. How much did you expect him to improve?

It mostly a thought experiment done in jest, but it was based on the ideas that Jorgenson would take another step forward, and that Visma would realise that they had to try something different in order to beat Pogačar if the best Vingegaard could do was to not get dropped (Jorgenson did attack multiple times while he was still a GC threat, so perhaps they were hoping he could have been a legit contender, but it just didn't work out).

I was personally quite impressed with what Jorgenson did in the Tour last year. His final GC position didn't mean that much when he wasn't a leader. I know it wasn't his first GT, but it still left me with bright expectations for his future.

I am of course aware that he had put in both the hard work and the money while at Movistar so that he could easily have been pretty close to his ceiling last year, but I was in no way sure that was the case at the start of this season. I'm still not sure about it, although he's obviously moved down my own power ranking during this race.

 

[P4rthen0n]

Frankly, it is a disgrace he is trying to get in the breakaway today. He finished in the groupetto yesterday, when he could have been of great use for Jonas. Should be taking an easy day today so he can help in the alps.

Yea this makes no sense at all.
Maybe there was some truth to what Trine said after all.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It mostly a thought experiment done in jest, but it was based on the ideas that Jorgenson would take another step forward, and that Visma would realise that they had to try something different in order to beat Pogačar if the best Vingegaard could do was to not get dropped (Jorgenson did attack multiple times while he was still a GC threat, so perhaps they were hoping he could have been a legit contender, but it just didn't work out).

I was personally quite impressed with what Jorgenson did in the Tour last year. His final GC position didn't mean that much when he wasn't a leader. I know it wasn't his first GT, but it still left me with bright expectations for his future.

I am of course aware that he had put in both the hard work and the money while at Movistar so that he could easily have been pretty close to his ceiling last year, but I was in no way sure that was the case at the start of this season. I'm still not sure about it, although he's obviously moved down my own power ranking during this race.

Still, had you predicted Almeida, that i could have understood. Jorgenson was simply too far off, and other than Paris Nice, which is his in backyard and without HC climbs, he never stood out in GCs. I remember one stage last year where he really put in the work and still finished quite high, but i did not see anything to suggest he would rival for victory, even when cut free. He's already 26, he has never (not as junior/u23) been close to GC talents and his rise as a GC contender is quite recent. He took another step in his first year at Visma, but not this year, that was already apparent during spring. Not sure there is much headroom over last year's result.

 

[yaco]

He should go home now. He deliberately lost time to go in breaks, however, UAE will not allow him into breaks.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Still, had you predicted Almeida, that i could have understood. Jorgenson was simply too far off, and other than Paris Nice, which is his in backyard and without HC climbs, he never stood out in GCs. I remember one stage last year where he really put in the work and still finished quite high, but i did not see anything to suggest he would rival for victory, even when cut free. He's already 26, he has never (not as junior/u23) been close to GC talents and his rise as a GC contender is quite recent. He took another step in his first year at Visma, but not this year, that was already apparent during spring. Not sure there is much headroom over last year's result.

The Tour is the Tour and things that happens before it doesn't always mean that much, and while he didn't appear stronger in the spring compared to last year, he wasn't way worse either. Him not looking great in Dauphiné could just as well have been a sign of him reaching his peak at the right moment rather than too early. We now know that wasn't the case, but you couldn't have been sure of that at the time.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The Tour is the Tour and things that happens before it doesn't always mean that much, and while he didn't appear stronger in the spring compared to last year, he wasn't way worse either. Him not looking great in Dauphiné could just as well have been a sign of him reaching his peak at the right moment rather than too early. We now know that wasn't the case, but you couldn't have been sure of that at the time.

I understand what you mean, i just feel he has shown little to expect that kind of improvement at his age, in one year.

 

[Oldman]

No doubt he's top rider for one week stage races.
GTs? Jury's still out. Last year he finished 8th, he was 17 minutes behind third place Evenepoel and 7 minutes behind 4th place Almeida.
I concur something must have gone wrong in his prep for this Tour but I also think we got ahead of ourselves in predicting he would be a legit podium candidate.

His physical specimen doesn't exactly scream GT specialist either. Thymen Arensman was a more natural climber from the get go and has yet to prove he can achieve a GT podium.

His 8th place last year was also serving as a Dom for critical parts of the race on Vingo's behalf. This year he looked like he was trying to imitate WvA for the first 8 weeks. He is not Wout and pretty much cooked himself. He pulled off a short TT on stage 13 but being overfatigued is a prescription for getting ill or worse. He's finished GTs respectably and Visma has, as many have said; pursued the same strategy from the gun. If Pogacar falls apart in stage 18 and 19 they will be rewarded with futurecasting a race better than anyone that's managed a team.
Tomorrow is tough.

 

[Oldman]

The Tour is the Tour and things that happens before it doesn't always mean that much, and while he didn't appear stronger in the spring compared to last year, he wasn't way worse either. Him not looking great in Dauphiné could just as well have been a sign of him reaching his peak at the right moment rather than too early. We now know that wasn't the case, but you couldn't have been sure of that at the time.

You'd think he and JV would be very aware of his training arc. JV had camp custody of him since Dauphine so whatever they prepped for, presumably they got. Next to Matteo they'd have to know if he needed a break or a beating at altitude. I'm guessing at best and he's the only one that has a clue at this point.

 

[theyoungest]

As was already evident to some, Matteo has indeed been sick. Merijn Zeeman says this in an interview with Wielerflits, he's not directly involved with the team anymore but of course he's still in contact with his former colleagues.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I understand what you mean, i just feel he has shown little to expect that kind of improvement at his age, in one year.

Sure, it isn't the norm for someone at his age who's been around for a while to make that kind of progress, but it wouldn't have been extraordinary either considering what we've seen previously.

Anyway, the stars and stripes didn't align for him in this race and maybe they never will in the Tour, but if Derek Gee can finish 4th in a Giro (I know he was lucky with stronger riders abandoning, but that is always a risk in a GT) there's still reason to believe that Jorgenson has a chance of achieving something similar or better some day.

 

[Oldman]

As was already evident to some, Matteo has indeed been sick. Merijn Zeeman says this in an interview with Wielerflits, he's not directly involved with the team anymore but of course he's still in contact with his former colleagues.

He may not have been totally wrecked by illness but now seems to have benefitted from taking some easy stages. If that were the action plans by Visma at least it's a partial recovery from overusing him early. He did well to keep Jonas in place. Jonas no doubt didn't feel like he was going to take much time out of Tadej and could definitely tax himself trying. That would make tomorrow even worse and still may be what happens.

 

[jmdirt]

Don't know, this is so far of his normal level that I wonder if it's a meaningful sample of his possibilities in GTs.
Would also guess he is sick.

He was sick on the rest day so...

 

[AvA8]

He was sick on the rest day so...

Do you have a source for that? Is there a report for that?

 

[danielzu]

Do you have a source for that? Is there a report for that?

He said it in the interview before the start of yesterdays stage