McQuaid and Verbruggen going down

[mountainrman]

I also want to see Dr Ferrari finally get some credit. That man should have lost his medical licence for malpractice years ago..

You may well get your wish when the padua investigation comes home to roost shortly. Sounds like behind bars for him.

 

[martinvickers]

Wiggins joins Lance in throwing Pat under the US/UK Postal bus (do they discuss tactics together?)

Comments to Sky Italia (translated by journo):

''I'm worried for the condition in which is the cycling after this scandal, dragged down by people like UCI's president Pat McQuaid"

"Even if Armstrong would be stripped of the 7 Tours, it's the past. The present is important. What will be the impact on us?"

"Maybe in 1 week we'll be w/out any president. I care about consequences. We are trying to maintain credibility by what we are doing".

I just can't get a handle on Wiggins at the moment.

He's, sadly, nothing like as clear on anti-doping as a) Nicole cooke, b)his old 2007 self. He seems to have a pretty nasty personal dispute with Kimmage bubbling - and while kimmy can be a pain in the ****, his ethics and deeper feelings are unimpeachable - so Wiggins is never going to win that argument with anyone who knows the sport. It makes him look petty, mean...and less than serious on anti-doping

On the other hand, he doesn't have a problem, it seems, lashing out at some of the genuine problem figures either, like Armstrong himself - If he's now having a pop at Phat as well, that would be an extraordinarily brave/foolhardy thing to do if he is doping, if his passport is less than stellar, or if Sky's dealings with UCI are as nefarious as some here claim. It would almost certainly mean a revenge strike from Pat/Hein, and the end of both Wiggins and Sky.

Given that Sky covered the blooming interview, That doesn't ring true either....hmmmm

After all, it's one thing for retired, proven doper, damned Lance to throw Pat et al under the wheels. In a sense, he might have little to lose and lots to gain. It's a very different thing for current Patron, reigning TdF champ wiggins to do it - there's no obvious gain to it, and the world to lose if there's ANYTHING dirty on wiggins...

 

[hrotha]

He's lashing out at Armstrong because his fall is complete. Not long ago, he was being a total fanboy.

 

[BroDeal]

How long before the UCI throws its support behind a truth and reconciliation effort? I expect that to be one of the straws that McQuaid clutches at if Armstrong testifies against the UCI.

 

[martinvickers]

How long before the UCI throws its support behind a truth and reconciliation effort? I expect that to be one of the straws that McQuaid clutches at if Armstrong testifies against the UCI.

Well, McQuaid has just ruled it out - which is bizarre in the circumstances where his credibility on this depends entirely now on UCIIc - and they want it. One can only assume it's pretty desperate times at UCI central.

 

[sniper]

indeed I'm completely not understanding why UCI don't want Truth and Rec?

What do they have to loose by that?

More problematic: why are guys like JV (twitter) and Travis Tygart putting the Truth and Rec forward as some sort of way for the UCI-IC to show they are reliable? Aren't they unreliable-period?

Wouldn't they be equally 'independent', with or without a T&R commission?

 

[martinvickers]

indeed I'm completely not understanding why UCI don't want Truth and Rec?

What do they have to loose by that?

More problematic: why are guys like JV (twitter) and Travis Tygart putting the Truth and Rec forward as some sort of way for the UCI-IC to show they are reliable? Aren't they unreliable-period?

Wouldn't they be equally 'independent', with or without a T&R commission?

Sorry, sniper, I don't understand what you mean here, could you rephrase?

 

[Hugh Januss]

indeed I'm completely not understanding why UCI don't want Truth and Rec?

What do they have to loose by that?

More problematic: why are guys like JV (twitter) and Travis Tygart putting the Truth and Rec forward as some sort of way for the UCI-IC to show they are reliable? Aren't they unreliable-period?

Wouldn't they be equally 'independent', with or without a T&R commission?

If riders are not afraid to come forward the Omerta which is all that protects Paddy and the UCI gets a sharp kick in the balls. It is not surprising to me that they (McQuaid) have rejected T&R.

 

[sniper]

Sorry, sniper, I don't understand what you mean here, could you rephrase?

Well, Tygart said the UCI-IC are unreliable because T&R is not in the terms of reference.

I don't see how accepting T&R would make the commission any better, or any more independent.

Even if they add T&R to the terms of reference, there are other grave problems with the commission, such as the fact that the players were indirectly appointed by Hein.

But tygart seems to suggest that the only reason he can't support the commission is because of the T&R-issue.

EDIT:
as for JV, on twitter he's all over the place thanking the UCI-IC for pressuring UCI to accept T&R.
like tygart, he seems happy to recognize the UCI-IC if they resolve the T&R issue.

 

[martinvickers]

Well, Tygart said the UCI-IC are unreliable because T&R is not in the terms of reference.

I don't see how accepting T&R would make the commission any better, or any more independent.

It wouldn't make it more independent. it would make it more effective - not the same thing.

Even if they add T&R to the terms of reference, there are other grave problems with the commission, such as the fact that the players were indirectly appointed by Hein.

But tygart seems to suggest that the only reason he can't support the commission is because of the T&R-issue.

Because TT clearly has more faith in the individuals involved than you - and he's probably better qualified to decide that, really.

 

[sniper]

It wouldn't make it more independent. it would make it more effective - not the same thing.



Because TT clearly has more faith in the individuals involved than you - and he's probably better qualified to decide that, really.

If unexpectedly the commission would come to recommend Phat's resignation and would conclude UCI have been corrupt, I'll change my mind about them retrospectively. Until then indeed I have zero faith in the UCI-IC.

 

[martinvickers]

If unexpectedly the commission would come to recommend Phat's resignation and would conclude UCI have been corrupt, I'll change my mind about them retrospectively. Until then indeed I have zero faith in the UCI-IC.

I heartily hope they do.

But refusing to believe they are independent unless they do so? that's just silly, sniper. "Unless they decide exactly what I want, I won't listen to them"? Come on.

Sometimes you come across as if all you want is your own pre-held views validated - or everyone else can be damned. And surely you can see that's not a great way to come across?

 

[Hugh Januss]

I heartily hope they do.

But refusing to believe they are independent unless they do so? that's just silly, sniper. "Unless they decide exactly what I want, I won't listen to them"? Come on.

Sometimes you come across as if all you want is your own pre-held views validated - or everyone else can be damned. And surely you can see that's not a great way to come across?

It is not a stretch to suspect that a Commission chosen by UCI to look into claims of UCI malfeasance may not be independent, and to be suspect of whatever findings they come up with short of throwing the basterds out.

 

[BroDeal]

Well, McQuaid has just ruled it out - which is bizarre in the circumstances where his credibility on this depends entirely now on UCIIc - and they want it. One can only assume it's pretty desperate times at UCI central.

They have to suspect, probably rightly, that T&R would forgive the riders but not be so kind to officials. The UCI has a history of waiting as long as possible to do the right thing, hence the biopassport started years after people were calling for such a thing. There are also commercial concerns. How many sponsors would pull out if half the peloton admits to doping?

What the UCI needs to attempt is a "new day" policy. Admit that the sport was a hopeless doping morass and delving into it would do more harm than good. Forgive previous transgressors, including those like Ricco who are serving bans. Assert that the situation has now changed. Institute a zero tolerance policy going forward.

 

[Microchip]

Verbruggen Denies Responsibility

Hein says:

“I don't understand the whole fuss at all,” Verbruggen said in an interview with the Dutch magazine De Muur. “If you test someone 215 times and he is always negative, then the problem is in the test itself. Well, I'm not responsible."

Perhaps he can claim "permanent insanity" and get off with that. Shouldn't be hard to prove.

 

[martinvickers]

It is not a stretch to suspect that a Commission chosen by UCI to look into claims of UCI malfeasance may not be independent, and to be suspect of whatever findings they come up with short of throwing the basterds out.

they weren't chosen by the UCI - they were chosen by Coates, who was chosen by the UCI - that's not the same thing

 

[BroDeal]

Verbruggen Denies Responsibility

Hein says:

“I don't understand the whole fuss at all,” Verbruggen said in an interview with the Dutch magazine De Muur. “If you test someone 215 times and he is always negative, then the problem is in the test itself. Well, I'm not responsible."

Perhaps he can claim "permanent insanity" and get off with that. Shouldn't be hard to prove.

 

[martinvickers]

They have to suspect, probably rightly, that T&R would forgive the riders but not be so kind to officials.

Exactly my point - desperate times, as i said. this is Berlin bunker style stuff.

The UCI has a history of waiting as long as possible to do the right thing, hence the biopassport started years after people were calling for such a thing. There are also commercial concerns. How many sponsors would pull out if half the peloton admits to doping?

That's about the only reasonable concern - but i'm afraid it's an inevitablity

What the UCI needs to attempt is a "new day" policy. Admit that the sport was a hopeless doping morass and delving into it would do more harm than good. Forgive previous transgressors, including those like Ricco who are serving bans. Assert that the situation has now changed. Institute a zero tolerance policy going forward.

i'm not sure that's enough - but at least it would be coherent.

 

[sniper]

they weren't chosen by the UCI - they were chosen by Coates, who was chosen by the UCI - that's not the same thing

 

[will10]

Verbruggen Denies Responsibility

Hein says:

“I don't understand the whole fuss at all,” Verbruggen said in an interview with the Dutch magazine De Muur. “If you test someone 215 times and he is always negative, then the problem is in the test itself. Well, I'm not responsible."

Perhaps he can claim "permanent insanity" and get off with that. Shouldn't be hard to prove.

Even Lance has given up on the never tested positive line, can't believe he didn't give old buddy Hein a call to let him know.

 

[martinvickers]

Sniper, if you'd like to make a comment, rather than trying at being a kindergarten wit, i look forward to reading it.

 

[observer]

I actually like where the UCI is going with this.

The way I see things happening is that:

Lance apology, then testify against the UCI for a reduced maybe pre-dated ban or something like that.

UCI pushes for a recncilliation across all sports, it was mentioned in a cn article.
This says to me that the UCI is going down, but it's a subtle threat to bring some other sports down with it.

now that would be interesting. I don't think this story stops at a Lance apology.

 

[webvan]

I wonder if Landis has been sending funny emails to Heiny to get him worked up? Pretty sure he has and would love to see them!

As for FatPat I see a resignation in his very near future!

 

[Hugh Januss]

Sniper, if you'd like to make a comment, rather than trying at being a kindergarten wit, i look forward to reading it.

The rest of us kindergarteners thought it was funny.

 

[martinvickers]

The rest of us kindergarteners thought it was funny.

That is not entirely shocking news, Hugh.