merckx

[Anonymous]

I just can't buy the whole "doping was different back then" argument. Doping is doping no matter what era or what was available at the time. Do you not think these guys would have taken EPO if is was available to them back in the Merckx era?

That said, doping still occurred, just the drug of choice changed.

But give it enough time and like other "legends" we'll all seemingly forget the bad stuff and remember only the extraordinary accomplishments. Just give it time...

Aside from that Merckx was like any other top notch fierce competitor. He lived and breathed racing and his world evolved around that. He wasn't out to make friends. That type of mindset reminds me of F1 legend Ayrton Senna.

 

[issoisso]

I just can't buy the whole "doping was different back then" argument. Doping is doping no matter what era or what was available at the time. Do you not think these guys would have taken EPO if is was available to them back in the Merckx era?

What he meant isn't that it. It's that back then everyone had the money for the same products. Nowadays, whoever has the most money gets the products that have the highest performance boost and are most difficult to detect.

Which is a big part of the reason big names are rarely busted

 

[Cobber]

What he meant isn't that it. It's that back then everyone had the money for the same products. Nowadays, whoever has the most money gets the products that have the highest performance boost and are most difficult to detect.

Which is a big part of the reason big names are rarely busted

While this is very true, "back then" there were no drugs available that boosted the body's ability to carry oxygen, which is the cornerstone of today's performance increases. Blood transfusions were possible (and legal it seems until at least 1960), but not to the same extent as practiced in today's peleton (coupled with microdosing EPO etc.)

 

[flicker]

Doping is relevant but it is diluted by how many athletes dope.
Check out the top 10 in some TdFs at least 6of 10 are busted or Puerto.
Same with the Eddy, Anquentiel and Fausto eras.
American football and baseball same.
Doping sadly is a level playing field in Pro and olympic sports.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I acknowledge that Merckx was the greatest cyclist of all time and probably will always be the greatest cyclist of all time. However, I was trying to point out this double standard that exists in the sport today, as shown by many opinions on the forum. You have one guy who was caught three times for doping versus today where fans cannot stand riders based on the fact that they could have doped. I am not an Armstrong sympathizer and acknowledge that he is not the friendliest person that has walked this green earth (and am sorry he was injected into this thread).

But that is all posters are doing here - acknowledging that he was/is the greatest! As we did with Pantani - acknowledged his attacking style and climbing ability - it is not condoning how they managed to get their achievements.

Same way as I acknowledge that Armstrong is one of the best riders of his era.

BTW- I have met both Merckx and LA, and LA has the 'friendlier' personality.

 

[elapid]

Anyone that thinks Merckx was a nicer guy wasn't around when he was racing.

He was NOT liked.

For those whining about Merckx getting a pass compared to LA, well, he didn't get a pass, and he can't be compared to LA. The only thing that has passed is time, time enough for people to mostly remember the good things.

This is the point I was trying to make. Many of us cheer for the underdog and like to see dominant people lose. Dominant athletes are dominant for a reason and their personality more than likely reflects their desire to be the best at every opportunity. However, when these athletes retire and fade back into memory and the record books, it is only their feats and results which will be remembered, not the controversies or their personalities. LA will be no different than Merckx in 5 years time, just another name in the record books.

 

[TRDean]

This is the point I was trying to make. Many of us cheer for the underdog and like to see dominant people lose. Dominant athletes are dominant for a reason and their personality more than likely reflects their desire to be the best at every opportunity. However, when these athletes retire and fade back into memory and the record books, it is only their feats and results which will be remembered, not the controversies or their personalities. LA will be no different than Merckx in 5 years time, just another name in the record books.

I respectfully disagree. I don't think I will feel any different about LA in 5,10, or 20 years. It has nothing to do with his cycling however, it has everything to do with his personality. I think those of us who live in the US are going to be seeing and hearing a lot of mr LA when he decides to run for office. This is a guy who likes the limelight like no other.

 

[Cobber]

I respectfully disagree. I don't think I will feel any different about LA in 5,10, or 20 years. It has nothing to do with his cycling however, it has everything to do with his personality. I think those of us who live in the US are going to be seeing and hearing a lot of mr LA when he decides to run for office. This is a guy who likes the limelight like no other.

+1.... I would agree with Elapid if I thought Lance would "disappear" after he leaves cycling. However, I don't think there is the remotest possibility of that!

Regarding Dr Mas's comment, people can appear very different from who they really are during casual meetings. Some people can appear gruff or rude when you meet them, but would bend over backwards if you ever needed their help, while others will appear really nice and friendly in person, but if you asked them for anything they would tell you to get lost.

The thing with Lance is not how he appears in interviews, or if you were to meet him on the street, but how he has treated others that didn't agree with him on a particular issue. In interviews on TV he seems like a nice guy, but when you see what he has done to people like Simeoni, Betsy Andreu etc. etc. etc., it makes you think that the persona he puts out to the media is very different from who he really is. I think, in that regard, he will make a great politician!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

This is the point I was trying to make. Many of us cheer for the underdog and like to see dominant people lose. Dominant athletes are dominant for a reason and their personality more than likely reflects their desire to be the best at every opportunity. However, when these athletes retire and fade back into memory and the record books, it is only their feats and results which will be remembered, not the controversies or their personalities. LA will be no different than Merckx in 5 years time, just another name in the record books.

In 10 years I will still be watching Stars and Watercarriers, Le Course en Tete and Sunday in Hell. I won't be watching the tapes of the TdF of the early 2000s.....

 

[elapid]

I hear what you are all saying. Yes - if Lance goes into politics then he will again be in the public realm and he will not go away. Damn. I will also be watching these DVDs when I am the trainer, but I must admit I still enjoy the 2003 TdF. The Classics still get first billing when it gets dark and snowy and I have to hit the trainer in the basement.

 

[Jonathan]

The thing with Lance is not how he appears in interviews, or if you were to meet him on the street, but how he has treated others that didn't agree with him on a particular issue. In interviews on TV he seems like a nice guy, but when you see what he has done to people like Simeoni, Betsy Andreu etc. etc. etc., it makes you think that the persona he puts out to the media is very different from who he really is. I think, in that regard, he will make a great politician!

I don't think we can claim to really know him. For every story on how he treated someone like unfossilized coprolites, there's also an instance where he went out of his way to support someone who suffered from cancer. He seems to have at least as many friends as enemies.

Armstrong the Celebrity does appear to be an unpleasant person, but I'm sure that's only one side of him.