Michael Barry

[RobbieCanuck]

Hmmm...

I think you just confirmed what I said.

Anything beyond these forums???

And, when I asked for a link on Clara, I meant a quote or SOMETHING from Clara. NOT another quoted post from these forums.

Still waiting.

Dave.

I have been able to find one interview with Clara after Barry fessed up, here is what she said verbatim,

That sport is so corrupt that it actually corrupted someone who I think had the most beautiful spirit the sport ever saw. It just says the sport is in a place, I don't know maybe even beyond repair.

I have misplaced the link but she was interviewed by CBC in Winnipeg.

Barrys statement at the time included the following,

I crossed a line I promised myself and others I would not: I doped. It was a decision I deeply regret. It caused me sleepless nights, took the fun out of cycling and racing, and tainted the success I achieved at the time. This was not how I wanted to live or race.

After the summer of 2006, I never doped again and became a proponent of clean cycling through my writing and interviews.

From 2006 until the end of my career in 2012, I chose to race for teams that took a strong stance against doping. Although I never confessed to my past, I wrote and spoke about the need for change. Cycling is now a cleaner sport, many teams have adopted anti-doping policies and most importantly I know a clean rider can now win at the highest level.

I apologize to those I deceived

When you put these statements together it makes it clear CH was deceived by Barry.

Another link I found where Hughes said essentially the same thing as she did in Winnipeg is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oW2sn8i8zE

Next time do your own research, if you really wanted to know her reaction!

 

[Ripper]

...

...

Lots of interesting stuff in this thread! Good old R and R. What I am not clear on about Ryder is when the rumours started. I had the sense it was back in the MTB days, but I am just deducing from what I heard (I never heard anything direct from the MTB times).

Roland's been out of the sport for so long now and with him it was never as virulent, so I was never too sure what to believe.

Seamus ... gotta love the 50%.

Axel - still amazes me how nothing seems to ever really get mentioned at a high level. As noted - 10th in '98 TdF and no one has even mentioned it? Part of youth dev? Good grief! What I did not know was what the GF in Kelowna was like ... and I was thinking of heading out their to ride it this year or next!

 

[Master50]

Axel - still amazes me how nothing seems to ever really get mentioned at a high level. As noted - 10th in '98 TdF and no one has even mentioned it? Part of youth dev? Good grief! What I did not know was what the GF in Kelowna was like ... and I was thinking of heading out their to ride it this year or next!

I would hardly avoid this event based on impressions of over stimulated masters attending. There are always a few at every Fondo. I have heard of great experiences by several locals that have gone up there. One of my colleagues a relatively new cyclist gave it great reviews and he said as much fun as Whistler was.
I did all my big rides during my randonneuring phase 20 years ago but I would surely love to ride the Whistler Fondo over the Lion's gate bridge and upper level hyway. That seems like fun that a guy on a bike never gets to ride.

 

[neineinei]

Barry claims in the book that Boonen bought his Ronde van Vlaanderen win in 2006 from Leif Hoste.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/923/Sport/...nen-de-Ronde-van-2006-gekocht-van-Hoste.dhtml

 

[D-Queued]

I have been able to find one interview with Clara after Barry fessed up, here is what she said verbatim,

That sport is so corrupt that it actually corrupted someone who I think had the most beautiful spirit the sport ever saw. It just says the sport is in a place, I don't know maybe even beyond repair.

I have misplaced the link but she was interviewed by CBC in Winnipeg.

Barrys statement at the time included the following,

I crossed a line I promised myself and others I would not: I doped. It was a decision I deeply regret. It caused me sleepless nights, took the fun out of cycling and racing, and tainted the success I achieved at the time. This was not how I wanted to live or race.

After the summer of 2006, I never doped again and became a proponent of clean cycling through my writing and interviews.

From 2006 until the end of my career in 2012, I chose to race for teams that took a strong stance against doping. Although I never confessed to my past, I wrote and spoke about the need for change. Cycling is now a cleaner sport, many teams have adopted anti-doping policies and most importantly I know a clean rider can now win at the highest level.

I apologize to those I deceived

When you put these statements together it makes it clear CH was deceived by Barry.

Another link I found where Hughes said essentially the same thing as she did in Winnipeg is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oW2sn8i8zE

Next time do your own research, if you really wanted to know her reaction!

Thanks, but this is all pretty indirect and incredibly vague. Sounds more like someone perpetuating a lie.

Setting aside the banal nature of this 'apology', to apply Barry's statement(s) to Clara is over-specifying. Grossly so.

You are forgetting:

1. That he wrote an "Inside" book which proclaimed there was no doping.

- He certainly owes an apology to every single person that read that book

2. Partly because of his writing and self-promoted "Inside" perspective, many, many people approached Michael (and his father for that matter) to have Michael be honest about what he might know about Lance's doping as the whole affair was unfolding. He denied and lied and lied.

- He owes an apology to each and every one of those people

3. His dad is 'in the industry', was his father aware?

- If not, he owes his father a much bigger apology than he might owe Clara

4. If his father was aware, is it possible that Michael is trying to shield him from public scrutiny?

- That would make sense, in a way

5. He was in a position to win the Worlds in Hammertown.

- Doesn't he owe his fans that were there and Canadian sportswriters an apology?

-> the above points are just for starters on who and what that throwaway phrase you quoted could apply to.

Now, when it comes to Clara, she is simply passing the buck.

Oh, that sport is so dirty.

THAT sport!

Isn't there something a little Clintonesque about that?

Wait a second. Didn't she participate in THAT sport? How did her relationship with the sport get so Monica-like?

AND let's not forget Dede here.

How did Michael and Dede relate to other 'friends' about doping?

Oh, shucks, they aided and abetted. They helped them see the light that 'it isn't doping if everyone else is doing it'. How convenient.

Ok, let's give Clara the benefit of the doubt. Maybe Clara just wasn't the friend she thought and claimed she was.

Or, maybe by saying that cycling is so corrupt, Clara is also taking what could be a spoon fed Michael and Dede line. Is she excusing Michael, who is clearly guilty of a long and open public fraud, or is she self-rationalizing, or both?

Clara is an icon, and I am not looking to bring her down.

But you cannot be serious when you offer these 'statements' as proof that we have had an honest conversation about this from either Clara or Michael.

You might want to check your cycling glasses. They appear to be taking on a slight rosy shade when it comes to Michael and Clara.

When you get the non-specific 'everyone I deceived' statements, and the distancing 'that sport' comments, shouldn't your BS meter be going off?

Dave.

 

[purcell]

Lots of interesting stuff in this thread! Good old R and R. What I am not clear on about Ryder is when the rumours started. I had the sense it was back in the MTB days, but I am just deducing from what I heard (I never heard anything direct from the MTB times).

Roland's been out of the sport for so long now and with him it was never as virulent, so I was never too sure what to believe.

Seamus ... gotta love the 50%.

Axel - still amazes me how nothing seems to ever really get mentioned at a high level. As noted - 10th in '98 TdF and no one has even mentioned it? Part of youth dev? Good grief! What I did not know was what the GF in Kelowna was like ... and I was thinking of heading out their to ride it this year or next!

The event is fun, worth giving it a go. You are probably too late for this year (hotel rooms fill up fast) but put it on the calendar for next year. Just remember, it is mid-July in the Okanagan. It is going to be HOT. I rode it the first year and it was close to 40* with a wind blowing.

Last year was better, rode it with my wife so the pace was lower.

I would hardly avoid this event based on impressions of over stimulated masters attending. There are always a few at every Fondo. I have heard of great experiences by several locals that have gone up there. One of my colleagues a relatively new cyclist gave it great reviews and he said as much fun as Whistler was.
I did all my big rides during my randonneuring phase 20 years ago but I would surely love to ride the Whistler Fondo over the Lion's gate bridge and upper level hyway. That seems like fun that a guy on a bike never gets to ride.

Rode Whistler the first year. It was a blast. Clear bright morning through the park and over the bridge, in the traffic lanes. Then up the highway. It was really great. Like you say, cyclists never get to do that stuff, so freely. Worth the price just for those. Make it an event and stop at the "aid" stations, talk to people, a lot of fun. I stopped at every station, amazing how many people I ran into that I knew from way back when.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Thanks, but this is all pretty indirect and incredibly vague. Sounds more like someone perpetuating a lie.

Setting aside the banal nature of this 'apology', to apply Barry's statement(s) to Clara is over-specifying. Grossly so.

You are forgetting:

1. That he wrote an "Inside" book which proclaimed there was no doping.

- He certainly owes an apology to every single person that read that book

2. Partly because of his writing and self-promoted "Inside" perspective, many, many people approached Michael (and his father for that matter) to have Michael be honest about what he might know about Lance's doping as the whole affair was unfolding. He denied and lied and lied.

- He owes an apology to each and every one of those people

3. His dad is 'in the industry', was his father aware?

- If not, he owes his father a much bigger apology than he might owe Clara

4. If his father was aware, is it possible that Michael is trying to shield him from public scrutiny?

- That would make sense, in a way

5. He was in a position to win the Worlds in Hammertown.

- Doesn't he owe his fans that were there and Canadian sportswriters an apology?

-> the above points are just for starters on who and what that throwaway phrase you quoted could apply to.

Now, when it comes to Clara, she is simply passing the buck.

Oh, that sport is so dirty.

THAT sport!

Isn't there something a little Clintonesque about that?

Wait a second. Didn't she participate in THAT sport? How did her relationship with the sport get so Monica-like?

AND let's not forget Dede here.

How did Michael and Dede relate to other 'friends' about doping?

Oh, shucks, they aided and abetted. They helped them see the light that 'it isn't doping if everyone else is doing it'. How convenient.

Ok, let's give Clara the benefit of the doubt. Maybe Clara just wasn't the friend she thought and claimed she was.

Or, maybe by saying that cycling is so corrupt, Clara is also taking what could be a spoon fed Michael and Dede line. Is she excusing Michael, who is clearly guilty of a long and open public fraud, or is she self-rationalizing, or both?

Clara is an icon, and I am not looking to bring her down.

But you cannot be serious when you offer these 'statements' as proof that we have had an honest conversation about this from either Clara or Michael.

You might want to check your cycling glasses. They appear to be taking on a slight rosy shade when it comes to Michael and Clara.

When you get the non-specific 'everyone I deceived' statements, and the distancing 'that sport' comments, shouldn't your BS meter be going off?

Dave.

Nothing and I mean nothing in your rant about the banality of Barry's confession or your polemic on Barry in any way supports the notion that Clara knew about Barry's doping. THAT was the issue that you raised and all you are doing is making a trivial, irrelevant and unrelated argument for an issue about Clara that does not exist.

If you don't believe Clara Hughes there is not a person in the world you are capable of believing!

 

[D-Queued]

Nothing and I mean nothing in your rant about the banality of Barry's confession or your polemic on Barry in any way supports the notion that Clara knew about Barry's doping. THAT was the issue that you raised and all you are doing is making a trivial, irrelevant and unrelated argument for an issue about Clara that does not exist.

If you don't believe Clara Hughes there is not a person in the world you are capable of believing!

And you are whitewashing.

Just saying.

Dave.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

And you are whitewashing.

Just saying.

Dave.

I always separate my colours from my whites in my wash!

 

[Benotti69]

Clara Hughes competed at the height of the EPO undetectable era.....just sayin

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Clara Hughes competed at the height of the EPO undetectable era.....just sayin

Except this. There is no money in women's cycling eliminating one of the key motives to cheat. They do it all for the "glory" they get. Just saying... (I know -Jeanie Longo, Jeanie Longo, Jeanie Longo)

 

[Neworld]

Lots of interesting stuff in this thread!

Axel - still amazes me how nothing seems to ever really get mentioned at a high level. As noted - 10th in '98 TdF and no one has even mentioned it? Part of youth dev? Good grief! What I did not know was what the GF in Kelowna was like ... and I was thinking of heading out their to ride it this year or next!

Here are some interesting vids and stats, shocking really. I wonder what Mr. Tolkamp thinks of his performances...MB wasn't even in the doping stratosphere compared to Axel with results like these.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsDhqNZt2Pg
listen to the 1:50 marker for sure …where he talks about ‘quality and Lance’.


2004 TdFrance:
21st - Axel Merckx (Lotto) @ 39min 54sec


2006 TdF
Stage 15 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18EoHCt82Us
- 18th Axel Merckx (Bel) Phonak bib #76…climbing the A’lpe with Carlos, Landis, Kloden, Levi… riding totally clean.

 

[Ripper]

Here are some interesting vids and stats, shocking really. I wonder what Mr. Tolkamp thinks of his performances...MB wasn't even in the doping stratosphere compared to Axel with results like these.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsDhqNZt2Pg
listen to the 1:50 marker for sure …where he talks about ‘quality and Lance’.


2004 TdFrance:
21st - Axel Merckx (Lotto) @ 39min 54sec


2006 TdF
Stage 15 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18EoHCt82Us
- 18th Axel Merckx (Bel) Phonak bib #76…climbing the A’lpe with Carlos, Landis, Kloden, Levi… riding totally clean.

He really does not sound that bright. Is it just the way he presents, or is it the case and he is just very well advised?

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Clara Hughes competed at the height of the EPO undetectable era.....just sayin

Forget about bashing Clara. Seriously.

 

[Benotti69]

Except this. There is no money in women's cycling eliminating one of the key motives to cheat. They do it all for the "glory" they get. Just saying... (I know -Jeanie Longo, Jeanie Longo, Jeanie Longo)

Longo, Brooke Blackwelder, Genevieve Jeanson, Tammy Thomas, Dede Barry........

 

[purcell]

Except this. There is no money in women's cycling eliminating one of the key motives to cheat. They do it all for the "glory" they get. Just saying... (I know -Jeanie Longo, Jeanie Longo, Jeanie Longo)

This is incorrect. There is a tremendous amount of money in even women's cycling. it just isn't in salaries.

The sponsorship dollars add up pretty quickly. Houses in Canmore, Park City and Tucson don't come on a wish.

I have grave doubts about Clara Hughes, but there is no evidence and a very vocal backing chorus, so I keep them to myself.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

This is incorrect. There is a tremendous amount of money in even women's cycling. it just isn't in salaries.

The sponsorship dollars add up pretty quickly. Houses in Canmore, Park City and Tucson don't come on a wish.

I have grave doubts about Clara Hughes, but there is no evidence and a very vocal backing chorus, so I keep them to myself.

Clara has a residence in Sutton, Que. Are you suggesting she owns homes in the other places?

 

[elizab]

For any professional athlete retired or not to act shocked or surprised that lance doped and to express that shock and surprise that cyclists were doping is nothing more than theatrics. At the height of lance's reign, I had pros in the peloton who had never had any association with lance tell me that they knew I was telling the truth even though they had no firsthand knowledge of his doping.

To believe someone because they're a beautiful human being and were raised in a proper manner is somewhat naive. Don't believe me because I say I have conviction or because I go to church or because the nuns told me that lying was wrong, believe me because I can prove it to you. Maybe that's somewhat simplistic but with all these people coming out writing books to do what they can to mitigate the damage they've done to themselves with their doping and/or role in this dirty saga, I say prove it. Talk to hard hitting reporters and don't hide.

Paul Kimmage wanted to interview Barry to no avail. What does that tell you?

 

[The Hitch]

Good post Betsy. Thanks for the info.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Clara has a residence in Sutton, Que. Are you suggesting she owns homes in the other places?

She now permanently resides in Calgary. Tomlinson, Sydor, Hughes all have results that are credible, unlike other Canadian riders.

Particularly in MTB, take a good look at who was winning in the 90's : Pezzo, Fullana etc.

 

[Scott SoCal]

For any professional athlete retired or not to act shocked or surprised that lance doped and to express that shock and surprise that cyclists were doping is nothing more than theatrics. At the height of lance's reign, I had pros in the peloton who had never had any association with lance tell me that they knew I was telling the truth even though they had no firsthand knowledge of his doping.

To believe someone because they're a beautiful human being and were raised in a proper manner is somewhat naive. Don't believe me because I say I have conviction or because I go to church or because the nuns told me that lying was wrong, believe me because I can prove it to you. Maybe that's somewhat simplistic but with all these people coming out writing books to do what they can to mitigate the damage they've done to themselves with their doping and/or role in this dirty saga, I say prove it. Talk to hard hitting reporters and don't hide.

Paul Kimmage wanted to interview Berry to no avail. What does that tell you?

All anyone really needs to know.

Stories filled with half-truths for the purpose of a "confession" are completely self-serving. Makes me like Floyd all the more.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

She now permanently resides in Calgary. Tomlinson, Sydor, Hughes all have results that are credible ..."

Yep. I am with you 100%.

 

[purcell]

She now permanently resides in Calgary. Tomlinson, Sydor, Hughes all have results that are credible, unlike other Canadian riders.

Particularly in MTB, take a good look at who was winning in the 90's : Pezzo, Fullana etc.

And I reside permanently in the Okanagan, doesn't mean I don't own another house.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

And I reside permanently in the Okanagan, doesn't mean I don't own another house.

She has sold the others.

 

[purcell]

That is VERY recent if the case. She still owned them, which speaks to my point about cash being not in short supply.