Michael Rogers after leaving Sky

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Cycling quotient is only a guide and doesn't factor illness or team strategy I know, but traditionally Rogers ranking has always been very consistent in Quickstep, T-Mobile, HTC & Sky. It's really only this year he's significantly dropped off. He's ranked lower now than he was in hist first year at Mapei in 2000, so something's changed with him this year only really. 2013 and 14 he's been only ranked slightly worse at Tinkoff than Sky, which could simply be team strategy perhaps?

Yes, or also when you think you have a real GC contender in the team, he could have been doing a Porte, and almost stopping when his turn is over, to save himself for another day.

Koenig went from 7th last year to 65th this year, it's not a good measure of his performance or effectiveness.

Rogers went back to something more like his role at HTC - a rouleur/road captain. He did an excellent job coordinating Saxo and making sure that they were positioned well, along with Bennati.

Like I said in a previous thread, if you look at the last few times a TdF stage has come down to important echelons ('09, '13, '15) Rogers has been a main protagonist and his team leads (Cav and Contador/Sagan) made it across each time. Very telling.

He's still sharp, just doing a different role this year as Contador was attempting the double and the team was ok for climbers (Majka, Kreuziger etc).

 

[ppanther92]

If you reduce him simply to his climbing, he was and will never be as good as at Sky.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Re:

If you reduce him simply to his climbing, he was and will never be as good as at Sky.

....the key surely is why ex-Sky riders cant perform away from Sky. Whatever Sky are doing to transform their riders - it cant be carried across to their next team.

Surely this can only mean a motor on the bike. If it was a program they would be able to 'carry that across'. But if its technology they cant take that across. for example Mick Rogers doesnt know how a battery is made or inserted in the bike.

It,ll be fascinating to see how Porte does at BMC.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

If you reduce him simply to his climbing, he was and will never be as good as at Sky.

....the key surely is why ex-Sky riders cant perform away from Sky. Whatever Sky are doing to transform their riders - it cant be carried across to their next team.

Surely this can only mean a motor on the bike. If it was a program they would be able to 'carry that across'. But if its technology they cant take that across. for example Mick Rogers doesnt know how a battery is made or inserted in the bike.

It,ll be fascinating to see how Porte does at BMC.

Explain Gerrans.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

....the key surely is why ex-Sky riders cant perform away from Sky.

Again, this is a blatant lie. You've been called out on it before, so it's clear you just like being dishonest.

Rogers performs at a good level at Saxo. Gerrans is four times the rider he was at Sky. Urán has kept the same level. So has Dowsett (allowing for some improvement with age). Cavendish's performance was great the first year away from Sky. Pauwels did worse at Sky than elsewhere.

You don't get more anti-doping cred by dropping all nuances and ignoring the facts.

 

[wendybnt]

Indeed. What about Edvald? He tanked it it 2014 with Sky and seems to be slowly recovering with MTN, well at least he got a win again.

 

[simoni]

Re:

If you reduce him simply to his climbing, he was and will never be as good as at Sky.

I think he was doing a great job for Contador in 2013, so good he was riding top 10 after the ADH stage that year.

http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2013/us/riders/team-saxo-tinkoff/rogers-michael.html

At least the eqaul of what he was doing for sky in 2012.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Re: Re:

Again, this is a blatant lie. You've been called out on it before, so it's clear you just like being dishonest.Rogers performs at a good level at Saxo. Gerrans is four times the rider he was at Sky. Urán has kept the same level. So has Dowsett (allowing for some improvement with age). Cavendish's performance was great the first year away from Sky. Pauwels did worse at Sky than elsewhere.
.

Rogers was Hincapie at Sky
Dowsett is average at Movistar
Cavendish was competing with wiggins and froome to be star man - no debate there
Gerrans - not really super domestique material
Pauwels - dunno what happened to him
Uran - YOU ARE KIDDING - he's done nowt since Sky

blatant lie - read observation / opinion
dishonest ?? !! do me a favour - I am not a troll - just dislike doping cheats and would love the Sky Lie to be solved.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Again, this is a blatant lie. You've been called out on it before, so it's clear you just like being dishonest.Rogers performs at a good level at Saxo. Gerrans is four times the rider he was at Sky. Urán has kept the same level. So has Dowsett (allowing for some improvement with age). Cavendish's performance was great the first year away from Sky. Pauwels did worse at Sky than elsewhere.
.

Rogers was Hincapie at Sky
Dowsett is average at Movistar
Cavendish was competing with wiggins and froome to be star man - no debate there
Gerrans - not really super domestique material
Pauwels - dunno what happened to him
Uran - YOU ARE KIDDING - he's done nowt since Sky

blatant lie - read observation / opinion
dishonest ?? !! do me a favour - I am not a troll - just dislike doping cheats and would love the Sky Lie to be solved.

He held the hour record for a while so cant be that bad ...

 

[simoni]

Re: Re:

Again, this is a blatant lie. You've been called out on it before, so it's clear you just like being dishonest.Rogers performs at a good level at Saxo. Gerrans is four times the rider he was at Sky. Urán has kept the same level. So has Dowsett (allowing for some improvement with age). Cavendish's performance was great the first year away from Sky. Pauwels did worse at Sky than elsewhere.
.

Uran - YOU ARE KIDDING - he's done nowt since Sky

Giro 2nd place is not "nowt" (including a stage win).

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

You forgot to mention how we all also spat on Froome at the Tour de France and that we all threw beer on him a few stages before that.

And that's just to Chris Froome. We really are bad people. We all supported Lance, punched Richie Porte, hacked into Brailsford's computer, sent threats to Cound, crashed into Geraint Thomas and failed to laugh when he made a joke about it.

God help us all.

God save the queen, dude, you've got your lyrics wrong. And if you think G isn't funny then we are definitely breaking up.

I obviously didn't mean they reflect back on everyone who ever questioned everything that Sky says, but there it is explicitly written in case you personally felt alluded to. But some of the guys that are ridiculing thin arguments while offering up some doozies themselves aren't really helping themselves, IMHO. Feel free to disagree.

But I would like to point out that there's a possibility, however remote you might believe it to be, that 20 years go by and nothing comes out on Sky. "Good people" might want to at least consider that before posting. I'm not sure if I've never failed at that myself.

Its entirely possible that 20 years go by and nothing comes out on Sky. Meaningless to me though. 24 years have gone by and nothing has come out on Indurain though its obvious to anyone with a brain that he doped and he basically admited it himself.

Hardly the only one either. There's other guys who rode in the 1990's that posters on this board testify were doping or openly disucssing doping and they have all their honours, MBE's in some cases.

Or all those athletes from all those other sports in the 1990's breaking world records etc.

well there you go, the smoking gun that everyone has been waiting for.

 

[hrotha]

He means actual former pro riders who post or posted here.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

If you reduce him simply to his climbing, he was and will never be as good as at Sky.

....the key surely is why ex-Sky riders cant perform away from Sky. Whatever Sky are doing to transform their riders - it cant be carried across to their next team.

Surely this can only mean a motor on the bike. If it was a program they would be able to 'carry that across'. But if its technology they cant take that across. for example Mick Rogers doesnt know how a battery is made or inserted in the bike.

It,ll be fascinating to see how Porte does at BMC.

Huh? It's probably about 50/50. Lets look at the results of bigger name riders who've left Sky:

Riders who've improved/stayed steady:

Gerrans: Liege, Milan-San Remo, TdF Stage win, 2xGP Quebec, GP Montreal, 2xNational Champs, 2xTDU, Catalunya Stage win, podium at Worlds, San Sebastian and Amstel

Rogers: 2xGiro Stages, TDF Stage, Japan Cup, 2nd ToC,

Uran: 2nd overall Giro + stage win, National TT champ, 3rd Tirreno, 3rd Oman

Cavendish: Less wins since Kittel, but stayed solid - 3xTour stages, 5xGiro stages + Points, National Champ, K-B-K, TDS stage, Almeria, 6xCali stages, 7xTurkey Stages

Dowsett: Bayern Rundfahrt win + Stage win, Hour Record, Giro Stage win, 2x National TT Champ, Comm Games TT

Pauwels: 13th TdF

Henderson: Still good leadout guy

Riders who've disappeared since leaving/while away:

Swift
Hayman
Nordhaug
Appollonio
Lovkvist
Possoni

I'd say that apart from Lovkvist the good riders have stayed good and the average riders have stayed average. EBH seems to be getting a bit of his form back, I'll give him another year.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

You forgot to mention how we all also spat on Froome at the Tour de France and that we all threw beer on him a few stages before that.

And that's just to Chris Froome. We really are bad people. We all supported Lance, punched Richie Porte, hacked into Brailsford's computer, sent threats to Cound, crashed into Geraint Thomas and failed to laugh when he made a joke about it.

God help us all.

God save the queen, dude, you've got your lyrics wrong. And if you think G isn't funny then we are definitely breaking up.

I obviously didn't mean they reflect back on everyone who ever questioned everything that Sky says, but there it is explicitly written in case you personally felt alluded to. But some of the guys that are ridiculing thin arguments while offering up some doozies themselves aren't really helping themselves, IMHO. Feel free to disagree.

But I would like to point out that there's a possibility, however remote you might believe it to be, that 20 years go by and nothing comes out on Sky. "Good people" might want to at least consider that before posting. I'm not sure if I've never failed at that myself.

Its entirely possible that 20 years go by and nothing comes out on Sky. Meaningless to me though. 24 years have gone by and nothing has come out on Indurain though its obvious to anyone with a brain that he doped and he basically admited it himself.

Hardly the only one either. There's other guys who rode in the 1990's that posters on this board testify were doping or openly disucssing doping and they have all their honours, MBE's in some cases.

Or all those athletes from all those other sports in the 1990's breaking world records etc.

well there you go, the smoking gun that everyone has been waiting for.

Hitch is talking about actual pro's from 80's and 90's such as Daryl Webster and Esafosfina (former pursuit WC) who have posted here.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

If you reduce him simply to his climbing, he was and will never be as good as at Sky.

....the key surely is why ex-Sky riders cant perform away from Sky. Whatever Sky are doing to transform their riders - it cant be carried across to their next team.

Surely this can only mean a motor on the bike. If it was a program they would be able to 'carry that across'. But if its technology they cant take that across. for example Mick Rogers doesnt know how a battery is made or inserted in the bike.

It,ll be fascinating to see how Porte does at BMC.

Pardon??
perhaps Mick might not, but I'm sure the mechanics and/or bike manufacturer may well know.
no reason that moto-technology can't be 'carried across' or used amongst the different teams

 

[Cycle Chic]

Re: Re:

Pardon??
perhaps Mick might not, but I'm sure the mechanics and/or bike manufacturer may well know.
no reason that moto-technology can't be 'carried across' or used amongst the different teams

disagree - it must be huge money to get that 'on board'....and implementing technology and its secrecy is far more complicated an operation than drug running

 

[wendybnt]

On what basis or knowledge do you say that? It strikes me that the opposite is likely true. Moto-cheating faces only one very sporadically applied check, unlike doping. Equally, moto-cheating faces no legal consequences.

 

[Cycle Chic]

I didnt say 'checks' I said implementation of the technology - not talking of how to evade controls

 

[wendybnt]

Evading controls [I[is[/] the cost of implementing the technology, and for doping it is huge.