Michael Rogers positive for clenbuterol

[Ferminal]

Anyway, almost choked on my breakfast with an AAP report in the local rag claiming

"evidence in the Armstrong case alleged he had worked with the American's favourite doctor Michele Ferrari"

There is nothing alleged about it...

T-Mobile riders told to end Ferrari connection

Three of T-Mobile's Tour de France riders have been told to end their association with controversial sports doctor Michele Ferrari. The team has ordered Michael Rogers, Patrick Sinkewitz and Eddy Mazzoleni to cease using Ferrari's services as a coach and advisor.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/news/?id=/news/2006/jul06/jul04news

 

[red_flanders]

Anyway, almost choked on my breakfast with an AAP report in the local rag claiming

"evidence in the Armstrong case alleged he had worked with the American's favourite doctor Michele Ferrari"

There is nothing alleged about it...



http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/news/?id=/news/2006/jul06/jul04news

Yes, it is difficult to make these connections though. Reporters and Directors do not have the kind of information access we have with the Google. Or the ability to talk to anyone working in the sport. No one could have realistically known.

 

[sittingbison]

Now now let's not stoke the fire

 

[McLovin]

And for doing this in 2012

Dear God. Two downhills and a 2nd cat climb. That's unseen before at a rider who has a top 10 in both Giro and Tour.
Anyway, it's interesting to see how this will evolve.

 

[Ferminal]

Surely you watched the stage and saw the awesomeness that was Croix de Fer from the Glandon turn (actually must have been 5km before then, memory fail).

Not really a measurable performance in doping terms, but in terms of one rider on the front it's one of the most impressive that I can remember.

 

[pastronef]

Fabrizio Viani ‏@fabrizioviani 22h
Hang on.... doesn't this mean Saxo must miss the next 6 days of racing? No TdU?

 

[Ferminal]

Under what rule?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Fabrizio Viani ‏@fabrizioviani 22h
Hang on.... doesn't this mean Saxo must miss the next 6 days of racing? No TdU?

Saxo isn't a member of MPCC

 

[gillan1969]

Dear God. Two downhills and a 2nd cat climb. That's unseen before at a rider who has a top 10 in both Giro and Tour.
Anyway, it's interesting to see how this will evolve.

yeah...top 10 juiced....

 

[pastronef]

Saxo isn't a member of MPCC

ok, thanks Florry. good for them

 

[Ferminal]

I think their rule is two positives in the space of twelve months anyway.

 

[SundayRider]

I agree with Franklin and BroDeal.

As a caveat, I'd like to add that clen is certainly not a "weight loss" drug.

It does help with that, but it's an @ss-kicking steroid and a great bronchodilator. Makes you feel like a bull, makes your lungs feel huge, and increases lean mass.

Sound like a pretty effective off-season/shoulder season drug?

Antoine Vayer was tweeting yesterday that the arguments of it being old-school and ineffective are red herrings.

Now, if you start pulling and storing blood during these 'shoulder seasons' and reintroduce it prior to an effective and sensitive test... Well...

Here is another angle perhaps he had a clause in his contract that guaranteed him a bonus if he won a race during the season? Given that he had not won a race until ToJ then maybe it is more plausible.

 

[gillan1969]

so....

WADA issue clear warning in 2011 about eating meat in China (in fact a re-issue of previous warning)

Team Saxo and Team Sky have both done Bejing since at least 2011

Team Saxo have had Alberto's Clen problem with contaminated meat

and yet here we are again with ex Sky and Saxo rider Rogers using the 'please guv I didn't know the meat was contaminated excuse'...is that the best he can do?????

2 years straight of the bat

 

[del1962]

so....

WADA issue clear warning in 2011 about eating meat in China (in fact a re-issue of previous warning)

Team Saxo and Team Sky have both done Bejing since at least 2011

Team Saxo have had Alberto's Clen problem with contaminated meat

and yet here we are again with ex Sky and Saxo rider Rogers using the 'please guv I didn't know the meat was contaminated excuse'...is that the best he can do?????

2 years straight of the bat

Rogers did not do Bejing in 2011 or 2012

If this is food contamination as is most likely (though if you did want to use Clen you would have a ready made excuse if used in Bejing), then it does seem like a lack of professionalism on Team Saxo's part.

 

[gillan1969]

Rogers did not do Bejing in 2011 or 2012

If this is food contamination as is most likely (though if you did want to use Clen you would have a ready made excuse if used in Bejing), then it does seem like a lack of professionalism on Team Saxo's part.

no but both his teams did...the management and riders would therefore have been well aware of the issue...that he was not does not pass the straight face test...

and then throw in alberto and this topic should be one for the first items on the checklist after bike and kit....

lucky the cycling fan base is endlessly gullable................

 

[Benotti69]

so....

WADA issue clear warning in 2011 about eating meat in China (in fact a re-issue of previous warning)

Team Saxo and Team Sky have both done Bejing since at least 2011

Team Saxo have had Alberto's Clen problem with contaminated meat

and yet here we are again with ex Sky and Saxo rider Rogers using the 'please guv I didn't know the meat was contaminated excuse'...is that the best he can do?????

2 years straight of the bat

Yeah, it's not like doping is a problem in cycling or anything

 

[Franklin]

I'm sorry but if athletes can't be allowed to eat something if they have not homegrown it and kept under constant surveillance this Anti-doping hunt has become a witch-hunt.

Because (and this needs to be driven home by a sledgehammer) foodcontaminations are everyday occurence even in the pure and noble USA and Europe. It's not just those evil Chinese and Mexicans who play loose and fast with regulations.

Anti-doping should be aimed at eradicating doping. It should not be made so that an athletes life becomes unbearable. And yes, I assume a full round of agreement here, even from Benotti and Gilan.

 

[nevada]

no but both his teams did...the management and riders would therefore have been well aware of the issue...that he was not does not pass the straight face test...

and then throw in alberto and this topic should be one for the first items on the checklist after bike and kit....

lucky the cycling fan base is endlessly gullable................

It would only be the first thing on the checklist if contaminated food was the cause.

 

[gillan1969]

I'm sorry but if athletes can't be allowed to eat something if they have not homegrown it and kept under constant surveillance this Anti-doping hunt has become a witch-hunt.

Because (and this needs to be driven home by a sledgehammer) foodcontaminations are everyday occurence even in the pure and noble USA and Europe. It's not just those evil Chinese and Mexicans who play loose and fast with regulations.

Anti-doping should be aimed at eradicating doping. It should not be made so that an athletes life becomes unbearable. And yes, I assume a full round of agreement here, even from Benotti and Gilan.

with 20 of the 21 podium finishers in the armstrong Tour era to have had a PED incidents...then the CERA era, then contador etc etc its the cycling fan's life which has become unbearable...and we pay the wages....no us...no them

I can't organise a site visit or climb a ladder without a rigourous risk assessment...with careers and reputational damage at stake (no pun intended) a simple check from team management is surely not above them and with sky bringing their own pillows to races, something I cannot believe is not in place

 

[Franklin]

I can conclude herby that you do not agree that anti-doping rules are there to eradicate doping?

with 20 of the 21 podium finishers in the armstrong Tour era to have had a PED incidents...then the CERA era, then contador etc etc its the cycling fan's life which has become unbearable...and we pay the wages....no us...no them

I'd advice to look for another hobby if your life is unbearable simply because professional sports are a circus.

I can't organise a site visit or climb a ladder without a rigourous risk assessment...with careers and reputational damage at stake (no pun intended) a simple check from team management is surely not above them and with sky bringing their own pillows to races, something I cannot believe is not in place

About your work: That is 24/7 I assume? When you walk down a stairs or ladder at home you do a security check? When you are going to do groceries you double check every site you pass? Or is this just at work and does that end at the end of the working day?

If the latter it's not exactly the same, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Morbius]

I'm sorry but if athletes can't be allowed to eat something if they have not homegrown it and kept under constant surveillance this Anti-doping hunt has become a witch-hunt.

That is the problem with a threshold of zero - accidental contamination can happen far too easily. Of course we don't know the numbers yet to know whether we are in that area.

 

[Netserk]

Rogers did not do Bejing in 2011 or 2012

If this is food contamination as is most likely (though if you did want to use Clen you would have a ready made excuse if used in Bejing), then it does seem like a lack of professionalism on Team Saxo's part.

I'm sure Rogers misses those marginals gains now.

 

[SundayRider]

That is the problem with a threshold of zero - accidental contamination can happen far too easily. Of course we don't know the numbers yet to know whether we are in that area.

Must have ate a lot of meat in china to test positive in japan 3-4 days later.

 

[python]

a thought just jumped at me - the reason we don’t know rogers’ clen urine concentration is perhaps that the present uci admins have not yet… corrupted to the level of mcquaid/verbruggen admins.

the logic would go something like this.

clen is still a non-threshold substance according to wada. thus, an anti-doping authority (read: the uci) is not required to indicate the specific concentration in the official letter to an athlete - just that the presence of clen was found. thus rogers himself likely does not know more than we, the clinicians. of course, the uci by now knows the concentration as it is most likely already had inquired the concentration from the tokyo lab. but they did not leak it, like the mcquid admin did with conti’s values, because they did not try to cover it up…recall the uci sat on conti’s case and finally announced in the official uci press release the very small concentration to justify own slowness due to case complexity.

this may or may not be the case, but i thought it is a possibility

 

[blackcat]

That is the problem with a threshold of zero - accidental contamination can happen far too easily. Of course we don't know the numbers yet to know whether we are in that area.

would not these positives, lets call them false positives, not technically a false positive, but metaphorically,

if contamination were so prevalent in all testing disciplines, would there not be a wealth of positives through mere contamination.

And there aint. I am not making the point it cannot exist, but if you look at the sums in the cold hard light of day, <channel charlton> then it appears this is quite spurious a 30+ page thread with a rocket material, not warranting much of a discussion.

If was a neo-pro or stagiare, we could not give a $hit. It just happens it is an ex-Sky, ex-Ferrari alumnus, who is putting out tremendous wattage like the san alamo nuke facility.