Michael Rogers positive for clenbuterol

[BroDeal]

I understand one of Saxo's "dope" doctors changed job and moved to katusha prior to the 2013 season. The Saxo team was under pressure to perform at the very end of the 2013 season. Could it be that a less experienced doctor got the cocktail wrong?

There is no cocktail with Clenbuterol. Minute quantities of the stuff can be detected in urine. This has been known since Contador ran afoul of modern lab sensitivity for this substance. No one with a brain will use this in a competition where they could be tested, just as they will not use amphetamines.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Its not even like there is wiggle room like with testosterone (T:E ratios).

It has a unique and distinctive spike all of its own, and zero room for error.


I do genuinely believe it could be contamination, but 100% accountability means that he has to serve some sort of ban. Given the warnings about meat in China and Mexico, 2 years is the most likely scenario.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

There is no cocktail with Clenbuterol. Minute quantities of the stuff can be detected in urine. This has been known since Contador ran afoul of modern lab sensitivity for this substance. No one with a brain will use this in a competition where they could be tested, just as they will not use amphetamines.

right, so even a clown with white coat wouldn't use it. I'm struggling finding sympathy ...... perhaps Breyne will help me.

 

[martinvickers]

I note he doesn't state that he's never doped

No, he doesn't. I noticed that too. But equally, he's absolutely adamant in non- slippery terms that he hasn't done it this time.

Pete Kennaugh, brother of Tim ("Rogers, about time,really") and Sky rider today : "It would be the worst thing in the world if your food was actually contaminated with a banned substance... But how do you prove it ?"

The circumstances of this do seem to make a contamination +ve a plausible explanation, though of course, not at all the only one, or even necessarily the most likely one. But it's clear a lot of folks basically agree with Tyler Hamilton's verdict : "Karma" - perhaps not unlike how some people feel about Berti's similar +ve.

Get the feeling a lotta people suspect this is might actually just bad luck/stupidity of menu choice, this time : but are still perfectly happy that Rogers is in trouble because of his past 'misdeeds'. To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about that; a bit conflicted, really.

Anyway, time will tell, hopefully.

 

[martinvickers]

Couldnt agree more. Yet the thought of Freiburg Ferrari Mick busted did sound funny as hell.

But also for the Dodger justice should be in place.

Hmmm. Yep, that's pretty much how I feel, on both counts. But I'm not sure I'm proud of myself for feeling like that. On both counts.

 

[SundayRider]

No, he doesn't. I noticed that too. But equally, he's absolutely adamant in non- slippery terms that he hasn't done it this time.

Pete Kennaugh, brother of Tim ("Rogers, about time,really") and Sky rider today : "It would be the worst thing in the world if your food was actually contaminated with a banned substance... But how do you prove it ?"

The circumstances of this do seem to make a contamination +ve a plausible explanation, though of course, not at all the only one, or even necessarily the most likely one. But it's clear a lot of folks basically agree with Tyler Hamilton's verdict : "Karma" - perhaps not unlike how some people feel about Berti's similar +ve.

Get the feeling a lotta people suspect this is might actually just bad luck/stupidity of menu choice, this time : but are still perfectly happy that Rogers is in trouble because of his past 'misdeeds'. To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about that; a bit conflicted, really.

Anyway, time will tell, hopefully.

As its difficult to prove this case, maybe time wont tell either way. Unless he admits past doping somewhere down the line.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

As its difficult to prove this case, maybe time wont tell either way. Unless he admits past doping somewhere down the line.

It'll be Alberto Redux.

Contamination, contamination, contamination, blah, blah, blah...

Maybe appeal, maybe not.

Then an obvious shutting of the f*ck up, and a quiet time out for a bit.

This (and Bert's case) do nothing for clean cycling. Might do something for optics, but certainly not for cleaning up the general milieu of doping in cycling...

 

[red_flanders]

Pretty (surprisingly) decent article on Bicycling about Rogers' troubles.

http://blogs.bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2013/12/20/rogers-case-a-problem/

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Hmmm. Yep, that's pretty much how I feel, on both counts. But I'm not sure I'm prud of myself for feeling like that. On both counts.

Why? Being a human being versus ratio?

Nothing wrong with the both.

Ferrari Freiburg Rogers busted for doping? Great.

Does he deserve a fair trial? Of course.

See, it is not that hard.

 

[pancakes]

right, so even a clown with white coat wouldn't use it. I'm struggling finding sympathy ...... perhaps Breyne will help me.

Not sure if it's been posted but according to HLN.BE Mr. Breyne tried to kill himself today.

 

[del1962]

Why? Being a human being versus ratio?

Nothing wrong with the both.

Ferrari Freiburg Rogers busted for doping? Great.

Does he deserve a fair trial? Of course.

See, it is not that hard.

Surely it would be better if he got busted for doping when he used Ferrari though.

 

[the sceptic]

Or even better, when he was doping at sky

 

[martinvickers]

Why? Being a human being versus ratio?

Nothing wrong with the both.

Ferrari Freiburg Rogers busted for doping? Great.

Does he deserve a fair trial? Of course.

See, it is not that hard.

I want dopers caught and expelled. Abso-***ing-lutely. And some part of me IS pleased to see Rogers caught. But I am conflicted, because he was never actually caught for Ferrari, etc, so I'm just enjoying belated 'justice' for my hunches...and that sits...oddly. Maybe 'cos it doesn't feel altogether like justice, I don't know.

I am also all for fair process; I think that's my whole USP here, to be honest. and yet, in Rogers case, making the fairly reasonable points that this may well be a contamination case feels like helping a slippery customer slip...and that sits oddly too. Not least because of Bruyne today - it's bloody serious this stuff, really, y'know?

 

[martinvickers]

Or even better, when he was doping at sky

Leaving aside the baiting, why 'Better'?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Not sure if it's been posted but according to HLN.BE Mr. Breyne tried to kill himself today.

hopefully hes alright with family around him.

 

[avanti]

Pollution of the water and air (and thus the food chain) by phamacuetical companies is a growing problem. China and India are among the worst offenders. A Google search will reveal many reports on this topic including some from reputable sources. It is not just the phamacurtical companies however - people and animal excrement and just poor disposal of drugs also add to the problem. Even the USA is not immune to the problem.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Pete Kennaugh, brother of Tim ("Rogers, about time,really") and Sky rider today : "It would be the worst thing in the world if your food was actually contaminated with a banned substance... But how do you prove it ?"

Ask Rui Costa.

Though admittedly that approach is more than likely not possible in this instance.

(for the uninitiated, Rui and his brother Mario tested positive for methylhexamine, and claimed that they had not taken it, but had taken some supplements. Having heard the 'tainted supplements' excuse a multitude of times most of us rolled our eyes; however Rui and Mario still had the supplements in question, sent them to a UCI-accredited lab where they were tested, found to be contaminated with methylhexamine, and the two were exonerated, their bans quashed, and they returned to active competition)

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Ask Rui Costa.

Though admittedly that approach is more than likely not possible in this instance.

(for the uninitiated, Rui and his brother Mario tested positive for methylhexamine, and claimed that they had not taken it, but had taken some supplements. Having heard the 'tainted supplements' excuse a multitude of times most of us rolled our eyes; however Rui and Mario still had the supplements in question, sent them to a UCI-accredited lab where they were tested, found to be contaminated with methylhexamine, and the two were exonerated, their bans quashed, and they returned to active competition)

As I posted earlier, a hair sample could easily determine if it was contamination from the recent past, or a lingering use issue.

Although, hair can determine a lot more than just clen contamination.

Why wouldn't Alberto have pursued this route more vigorously, and why may not Rogers?

Rhetorical question...

 

[thehog]

No, he doesn't. I noticed that too. But equally, he's absolutely adamant in non- slippery terms that he hasn't done it this time.

Pete Kennaugh, brother of Tim ("Rogers, about time,really") and Sky rider today : "It would be the worst thing in the world if your food was actually contaminated with a banned substance... But how do you prove it ?"

The circumstances of this do seem to make a contamination +ve a plausible explanation, though of course, not at all the only one, or even necessarily the most likely one. But it's clear a lot of folks basically agree with Tyler Hamilton's verdict : "Karma" - perhaps not unlike how some people feel about Berti's similar +ve.

Get the feeling a lotta people suspect this is might actually just bad luck/stupidity of menu choice, this time : but are still perfectly happy that Rogers is in trouble because of his past 'misdeeds'. To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about that; a bit conflicted, really.

Anyway, time will tell, hopefully.

I don't disagree with you.

A court or the UCI in this case can't and won't judge him on anything that occurred in the past.

But even if contaminated there not much room for movement. Cycling Australia don't want to be as weak on dopers after USADA Matt White etc.

I'd say 18 months. Question is; will Saxo sack him?

Career over I'd say. Hard to come back from here at 35.

 

[Benotti69]

I don't disagree with you.

A court or the UCI in this case can't and won't judge him on anything that occurred in the past.

But even if contaminated there not much room for movement. Cycling Australia don't want to be as weak on dopers after USADA Matt White etc.

I'd say 18 months. Question is; will Saxo sack him?

Career over I'd say. Hard to come back from here at 35.

Career over ?? are you crazy he'd have at least another 6 years to win a GT

 

[Hugh Januss]

Get the feeling a lotta people suspect this is might actually just bad luck/stupidity of menu choice, this time : but are still perfectly happy that Rogers is in trouble because of his past 'misdeeds'. To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about that; a bit conflicted, really.

Anyway, time will tell, hopefully.

It's like being happy OJ got sent to jail for the Vegas caper at least. I don't feel much conflict, if any.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Pollution of the water and air (and thus the food chain) by phamacuetical companies is a growing problem. China and India are among the worst offenders. A Google search will reveal many reports on this topic including some from reputable sources. It is not just the phamacurtical companies however - people and animal excrement and just poor disposal of drugs also add to the problem. Even the USA is not immune to the problem.

Absolutely. Those are real problems. Actually i feel sorry for Rogers, b/c he couldn´t withstand (like half of the peloton) his hunger.
I would have eaten too. Why am I 100% sure? B/C i actually was outside of europe many times and took risks not only to eat contaminated food, but to catch Hep-A simply b/c i was hungry.
It´s easy for all guys to judge Rogers as guilty from warm home seats in front of a computer...
As you said, it´s not only China/Mexico, it´s all over the world. As I just wrote in the Sky thread, am actually surprised it´s so less (false) positives...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Absolutely. Those are real problems. Actually i feel sorry for Rogers, b/c he couldn´t withstand (like half of the peloton) his hunger.
I would have eaten too. Why am I 100% sure? B/C i actually was outside of europe many times and took risks not only to eat contaminated food, but to catch Hep-A simply b/c i was hungry.
It´s easy for all guys to judge Rogers as guilty from warm home seats in front of a computer...
As you said, it´s not only China/Mexico, it´s all over the world. As I just wrote in the Sky thread, am actually surprised it´s so less (false) positives...

Wtf Foxxy? Were you starving or what? On a 5 day hike through the jungle with no food?

 

[Benotti69]

Absolutely. Those are real problems. Actually i feel sorry for Rogers, b/c he couldn´t withstand (like half of the peloton) his hunger.
I would have eaten too. Why am I 100% sure? B/C i actually was outside of europe many times and took risks not only to eat contaminated food, but to catch Hep-A simply b/c i was hungry.
It´s easy for all guys to judge Rogers as guilty from warm home seats in front of a computer...
As you said, it´s not only China/Mexico, it´s all over the world. As I just wrote in the Sky thread, am actually surprised it´s so less (false) positives...

You make it sound like the middle ages. This was a professional bike racing team participating in a country known for contaminated foods. If they failed to prepare then they prepared to fail. I doubt Saxo are this amateurish though and Rogers got busted because he doped. IF they were rank amateurs then they and Rogers got what they deserve.

 

[the sceptic]

I heard its impossible to find other food than contaminated meat in China so I think foxxy might be on to something.