Michael Rogers

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Mar 31, 2010
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maxmartin said:
better than his days associated with Dr. Ferrari???
That is my point, if you believe that then I have nothing to argue about.

where does he say that? :rolleyes:

lol you guys see an enemy behind every tree. why even bother watching?
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Ryo Hazuki said:
where does he say that? :rolleyes:

lol you guys see an enemy behind every tree. why even bother watching?

You think everyone's clean, why bother reading the clinic?

el oh el.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Dear Wiggo said:
You think everyone's clean, why bother reading the clinic?

el oh el.

to laugh at you guys

I'm sure you also belive the usa controls the climate on antarctica and other **** :eek:
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
where does he say that? :rolleyes:

lol you guys see an enemy behind every tree. why even bother watching?

It's hilarious you can say that the day after the greatest sporting fraud ever perpetrated has been revealed, and Dodger has been shown to have been on doping trips to Tenerife with Ferrari - at the center of that fraud.

BTW let's not forget Freoburg lol.

Yup, an enema behind every three (strikes and you're out)
 
Sep 29, 2012
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maxmartin said:
Then what he is compared to for this 5-7% increase? the level when he is 10?
Obviously when people talking about increase like that, they are referring to compare with their best level before. That is just common sense.

Agreed.

My reasoning:

tl;dr:
Genetic potential = a rider's physiological limit.
It takes a rider training full-time 3-5 years to hit their physiological limit.
A rider's power levels pretty much stabilise when they hit their physiological limit.
Riders with power meters know their relevant power numbers, not last year's, or the power they had when sick or injured.
Roger's has increased his BEST EVER threshold 5-7%.

Explanation:
Genetic potential:
It is understood that a rider riding full-time will develop their aerobic and physiological systems to their genetic potential within 3-5 years.

It's actually VO2max that stabilises, the amount of oxygen you can utilise, with FTP being a % of VO2max. VO2max tends to stay stable once you hit your peak, or decline ever so slightly with age. Your FTP as a pro also stabilises during this time. You don't keep getting stronger each year, but to be fair, a 1% increase is possible.

eg: At 17, Brad Wiggins wins the (2k) junior individual pursuit. 7 years later (and 5 after he turned 19), in 2004 (24 years of age), he rode 4:15 for his pursuit qualifier. In 2008? 4:15. 4 years of training and racing as a pro roadie, world champs and the best science British cycling can buy for a 0.15 second improvement in 4 years. He had hit his physiological limit. (As an aside, I am guessing that's why he went to the road.)

Riders with power meters know their relevant power numbers.
Riders (I include myself in this) who use power meters and speak about power do so from a position of.... knowledge. They know themselves. They are entirely consistent. Brad did 570-580W for his IP. He can rattle that number off today, no question, even though it's been 4, 6 & 8 years since he did those 580W rides. That number was important to him, as each year he'd get 50,000 GBP to ride 3-6 x 4km (3 in non-olympic, 6 in olympic years) races. (Aside: that's either 2k or 4k GBP per km for those of you watching from home). If he can hit 580W he will get another gold medal or world title. He is a pursuiter. That is all he is, that is all he needs to know.

For a TTer / climber, the number you know is FTP - functional threshold power - the maximum power you can sustain for 1 hour. It's the endurance roadie marque and combined with your weight tells you how you are going to perform in a TT (absolute FTP & CdA) or on a climb (power::weight) against anyone else.

If you get sick one year, or have an accident, or a poor year, you are always aiming to get back to your physiological limit - ie your best possible FTP. When you say, "my threshold is ---" you are talking about your physiological limit, not what you did last year when you didn't race all year, or what you did 3 years ago when you were sick.

http://www.ridemedia.com.au/?p=6440
Can you offer any SRM data or some feedback that we can relate to? Are you heavier now? Lighter? What sort of power are you generating?

Michael Rogers: “I’ve seen a five to seven per cent increase in my general threshold power.

If Rogers says he improved his threshold by 5-7% this year he means just that: as a professional rider my physiological limit - the FTP power I expect to hit at my peak during the year - was X and this year I am hitting 5-7% more.
Michael Rogers: “We did [the Joux Plane climb] in 34:50, I think, and I averaged 440 Watts. That was one of my highest every power reports.

ie his highest ever absolute power - which correlates directly to his FTP or threshold power. 20 minute power ~= 105% FTP. Max power for 34:50 ~= 102% FTP.

This is on stage 9, of the Criterium Dauphine, 2012. Rogers is coming 2nd overall (finishes second overall for the race) and at the end of a 166km stage that climbs ~3000m for the stage, on the last, 1000m elevation gain climb, Rogers does one of his best ever power reports [sic]. FTP is measured when rested and recovered. If he can do his best ever 34:50 average power on stage 9 of a PT race, at the end of 166km with 3000m of climbing, riding in the front group while coming 2nd overall (ie major reasons for being fatigued), he definitely does 5-7% more threshold power (1hr max when recovered), no question whatsoever.

BOTTOM LINE: Rogers improved his best ever FTP by 5-7% this year. At age 32.

So there are 2 explanations:
1. he increased the % of VO2max he is riding at (FTP is a % of VO2max) OR
2. he increased his VO2max (how much oxygen he can consume) - something he hit the genetic potential of after 3-5 years full-time

1. can be done by training harder, and raising his lactic threshold - unlikely to happen after X years as a pro at the world-class (TT WC) level without some "help"
2. can be done by increasing his red blood cell count (RBC) - unlikely to happen without some "help".
 
Jul 28, 2009
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sittingbison said:
It's hilarious you can say that the day after the greatest sporting fraud ever perpetrated has been revealed, and Dodger has been shown to have been on doping trips to Tenerife with Ferrari - at the center of that fraud.

BTW let's not forget Freoburg lol.

Yup, an enema behind every three (strikes and you're out)
Don't bother yourself with Ryo, just likes stirring the pot. Let's face it after 8 gazillion three word posts you'd be jaded too.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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maxmartin said:
there is no point to argue with you if you don't even have common sense to understand words. If you want to use your own unique way to interpret things, go head be my guest. Don't expect majority normal people will stand by your side. And I am not going to reply on this issue any more, it is getting stale.

Did you read the actual interview I posted? He's asked about his disappointing 2011, talks about making changes in training as a response to that and when asked about the impact of those changes, says he improved his FTP by 5-7%. If you can't see that improvement is compared to a much more recent level than his distant Ferrari years then in my opinion you are incorrect
 
USADA report has quite clearly brought out the fact that Ferrari's training programs, always included doping.

Guys like Rogers and Cadel who have maintained that they contacted Ferrari for only training advice will have to find some more believable excuse soon.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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sittingbison said:
It's hilarious you can say that the day after the greatest sporting fraud ever perpetrated has been revealed, and Dodger has been shown to have been on doping trips to Tenerife with Ferrari - at the center of that fraud.

BTW let's not forget Freoburg lol.

Yup, an enema behind every three (strikes and you're out)

I've always said armstrong and us epostal were on the juice and until 2006 csc, kelme and us epostal had a fully backed team doping programma. euskaltel had this till june 2004 for instance. but I don't turn a blind eye to reality and many things have changed now. and not per se for the better from the perspective of a cycling fan who is now treated to often very boring racing where nobody dares to attack because everyone is basically empty.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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the asian said:
USADA report has quite clearly brought out the fact that Ferrari's training programs, always included doping.

Guys like Rogers and Cadel who have maintained that they contacted Ferrari for only training advice will have to find some more believable excuse soon.

http://www.podiumcafe.com/2012/10/12/3495546/volodymyr-bileka-speaks-in-english

disagrees and it sounds very much like the truth. only certain riders with cetrain salarys get it. still I'm not saying rogers was clean at all. just arguments like he said he improved his power output are ridiculous.
 
May 26, 2010
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I cannot believe any rider would risk going to Ferarri, a banned doctor, for anything else other than doping!
 
May 19, 2011
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Dear Wiggo said:
Agreed.

My reasoning:

tl;dr:
Genetic potential = a rider's physiological limit.
It takes a rider training full-time 3-5 years to hit their physiological limit.
A rider's power levels pretty much stabilise when they hit their physiological limit.
Riders with power meters know their relevant power numbers, not last year's, or the power they had when sick or injured.
Roger's has increased his BEST EVER threshold 5-7%.

Explanation:
Genetic potential:
It is understood that a rider riding full-time will develop their aerobic and physiological systems to their genetic potential within 3-5 years.

It's actually VO2max that stabilises, the amount of oxygen you can utilise, with FTP being a % of VO2max. VO2max tends to stay stable once you hit your peak, or decline ever so slightly with age. Your FTP as a pro also stabilises during this time. You don't keep getting stronger each year, but to be fair, a 1% increase is possible.

eg: At 17, Brad Wiggins wins the (2k) junior individual pursuit. 7 years later (and 5 after he turned 19), in 2004 (24 years of age), he rode 4:15 for his pursuit qualifier. In 2008? 4:15. 4 years of training and racing as a pro roadie, world champs and the best science British cycling can buy for a 0.15 second improvement in 4 years. He had hit his physiological limit. (As an aside, I am guessing that's why he went to the road.)

Riders with power meters know their relevant power numbers.
Riders (I include myself in this) who use power meters and speak about power do so from a position of.... knowledge. They know themselves. They are entirely consistent. Brad did 570-580W for his IP. He can rattle that number off today, no question, even though it's been 4, 6 & 8 years since he did those 580W rides. That number was important to him, as each year he'd get 50,000 GBP to ride 3-6 x 4km (3 in non-olympic, 6 in olympic years) races. (Aside: that's either 2k or 4k GBP per km for those of you watching from home). If he can hit 580W he will get another gold medal or world title. He is a pursuiter. That is all he is, that is all he needs to know.

For a TTer / climber, the number you know is FTP - functional threshold power - the maximum power you can sustain for 1 hour. It's the endurance roadie marque and combined with your weight tells you how you are going to perform in a TT (absolute FTP & CdA) or on a climb (power::weight) against anyone else.

If you get sick one year, or have an accident, or a poor year, you are always aiming to get back to your physiological limit - ie your best possible FTP. When you say, "my threshold is ---" you are talking about your physiological limit, not what you did last year when you didn't race all year, or what you did 3 years ago when you were sick.

http://www.ridemedia.com.au/?p=6440


If Rogers says he improved his threshold by 5-7% this year he means just that: as a professional rider my physiological limit - the FTP power I expect to hit at my peak during the year - was X and this year I am hitting 5-7% more.


ie his highest ever absolute power - which correlates directly to his FTP or threshold power. 20 minute power ~= 105% FTP. Max power for 34:50 ~= 102% FTP.

This is on stage 9, of the Criterium Dauphine, 2012. Rogers is coming 2nd overall (finishes second overall for the race) and at the end of a 166km stage that climbs ~3000m for the stage, on the last, 1000m elevation gain climb, Rogers does one of his best ever power reports [sic]. FTP is measured when rested and recovered. If he can do his best ever 34:50 average power on stage 9 of a PT race, at the end of 166km with 3000m of climbing, riding in the front group while coming 2nd overall (ie major reasons for being fatigued), he definitely does 5-7% more threshold power (1hr max when recovered), no question whatsoever.

BOTTOM LINE: Rogers improved his best ever FTP by 5-7% this year. At age 32.

So there are 2 explanations:
1. he increased the % of VO2max he is riding at (FTP is a % of VO2max) OR
2. he increased his VO2max (how much oxygen he can consume) - something he hit the genetic potential of after 3-5 years full-time

1. can be done by training harder, and raising his lactic threshold - unlikely to happen after X years as a pro at the world-class (TT WC) level without some "help"
2. can be done by increasing his red blood cell count (RBC) - unlikely to happen without some "help".

100% agree, thanks for taking your time to elaborate:D
 
maxmartin said:
maybe Rogers will confess under Australia amnesty[/QUOTE
Unfortunatley i agree with you maxmartin.I think their are quite e few Aussie riders watching carefully as to what Mick has to say?If anything?Let's hope with all thats going on, that something positive comes out of all this mess?
 

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