Michael Rogers

[RownhamHill]

Yes let's quote Dr. Ferrari on anti-doping shall we! He also said he's never administered doping products.

Now what exactly is "monitored closely" ? Did they catch anyone?

So, you don't think that a secret recording of the private thoughts of the world's most successful and infamous doping doctor, who was at the heart of the most successful doping conspiracy of the last 20 years, could give us much insight into successful doping techniques in 2010?

He obviously doesn't read the clinic closely enough to know what's what.

Sad day that Sky Fanboys are using quotes from Ferrari to prove that Sky are clean! Oh the irony!

Whoops, posted this before I saw this one. So, I'm not really a fanboy, I have no idea whether Sky are clean or not, and I don't think anything being discussed proves one thing or another.

But I do think that this insight from Ferrari in 2010 is interesting - appearing as it does to fly in the face of the pre-existing Clinic narrative - and I would have thought it would have been worthy of some discussion today. Except none of the usual Clinic suspects seem interested in discussing it. Which is a surprise.

 

[thehog]

He said it behind closed doors, not knowing his dope mobile was under surveillance, when discussing doping with Bertagnolli.

I know that. I'm just being facetious. I just find it funny that regardless if you're using EPO then you need to go to altitude. Its benefits minus drugs are not great.

Alas the irony is beyond me that we need Dr. Ferrari to tell the world that Sky are clean.

You know Ferrari also said Lance was clean don't you?

 

[Froome19]

Sad day that Sky Fanboys are using quotes from Ferrari to prove that Sky are clean! Oh the irony!

Big fail..

Maybe Ferrari was trying to convince Bertagnolli that what he was doing was not considered doping

 

[thehog]

So, you don't think that a secret recording of the private thoughts of the world's most successful and infamous doping doctor, who was at the heart of the most successful doping conspiracy of the last 20 years, could give us much insight into successful doping techniques in 2010?

He obviously doesn't read the clinic closely enough to know what's what.

Check this out? thehog being lectured that he doesn't read the clinic! I think I've heard it all now.

OK junior. When you grow up to be a man you'll start to understand a few things. In the meantime - school up.

Alas to your post. The last 20 years riders have been going to altitude to dope. Period. Ok. Simple as that. That much we know. And in 2012 all of sudden Sky go to Tenerife not to dope. Ok riiiight. Got it.

 

[thehog]

Big fail..

Maybe Ferrari was trying to convince Bertagnolli that what he was doing was not considered doping

Go Froomey! You've got a live catch here! You're outsmarting the hog.

You got me. Sky are clean.

Why?

Reverse periodisation.
Warming down.
Teamwork.
And Doctor Ferrari said so

 

[Froome19]

Go Froomey! You've got a live catch here! You're outsmarting the hog.

You got me. Sky are clean.

Why?

Reverse periodisation.
Warming down.
Teamwork.
And Doctor Ferrari said so

Lol at least try to answer it, instead or repeating what you have already said. You did the same in the Kerrison thread, just repeating all the facts about how Sky have performed so ridiculously well.

Check this out? thehog being lectured that he doesn't read the clinic! I think I've heard it all now.

OK junior. When you grow up to be a man you'll start to understand a few things. In the meantime - school up.

Alas to your post. The last 20 years riders have been going to altitude to dope. Period. Ok. Simple as that. That much we know. And in 2012 all of sudden Sky go to Tenerife not to dope. Ok riiiight. Got it.

And do riders not go to altitude in order to train as well.

We all know going to altitude is beneficial it is done by everyone across sports and unless you consider it to be a world wide conspiracy, then there is no reason why that should be suspect.

 

[thehog]

We all know going to altitude is beneficial it is done by everyone across sports and unless you consider it to be a world wide conspiracy, then there is no reason why that should be suspect.

Sure it is. Just ask Dr. Ferrari!

 

[RichWalk]

Sure it is. Just ask Dr. Ferrari!

Tenerife must be a damn busy sporting holiday destination

 

[thehog]

Lol at least try to answer it, instead or repeating what you have already said. You did the same in the Kerrison thread, just repeating all the facts about how Sky have performed so ridiculously well.

To be fair on the Kerrison thread I actually asked you for your own opinion. Not just Sky talking points.

I never heard back from you.

I still like to you what you really think and not posting stuff you just read about Reserve Periodisation etc.

So what do YOU think about Sky being clean or not clean? In your own words.

 

[RownhamHill]

Check this out? thehog being lectured that he doesn't read the clinic! I think I've heard it all now.

OK junior. When you grow up to be a man you'll start to understand a few things. In the meantime - school up.

Alas to your post. The last 20 years riders have been going to altitude to dope. Period. Ok. Simple as that. That much we know. And in 2012 all of sudden Sky go to Tenerife not to dope. Ok riiiight. Got it.

I beg your pardon? I seem to have entered a time warp, gone back 25 years, and have entered a discussion with one of my old school mates. Because I'm feeling charitable I will attempt to 'school up' and engage with this mess of a post.

So. My reference to 'he doesn't obviously read the clinic' was referring to Ferrari. Not to 'thehog'. Do you see what I did there now?

Yes I agree, when I grow up I'm sure I will understand a few more things than I do now. It's funny you should say that, because already I'm not young enough to know everything anymore. (I'm 37)

And yes. For the last 20 years riders went to Tenerife to dope. We all do know that. And what do you know, it seems that the anti-doping authorities picked up on that little factoid too. And what do you know the 'bad guys' appear to have picked up on the fact the anti-doping people had picked up on that. So much so, that the bestest, Dr-Evil doping bad-guy in the world, while being secretly recorded, was explicitly telling people not to go to Teide to dope because it was monitored. (Which when you think about is both unexpected and brilliant, it's no wonder the bad guys are so hard to catch.)

That's what we know.

Now, I understand there is a theory that Wiggins is working with Ferrari in 2011-12. So I suppose the obvious question is, if this is true, why has his advice changed so dramatically?

Personally (and I'm cognisant of your articulate point about growing up some more) I don't know everything, so I don't know if Wiggins is working with Ferrari, and if he is I don't know if his advice has changed. What do you think?

 

[Cyivel]

Can't believe people are using anything that candyass Ferrari said as meaning Sky are clean.

 

[Froome19]

To be fair on the Kerrison thread I actually asked you for your own opinion. Not just Sky talking points.

I never heard back from you.

I still like to you what you really think and not posting stuff you just read about Reserve Periodisation etc.

So what do YOU think about Sky being clean or not clean? In your own words.

I do not have much time to go trawling through the thread here, as I mainly post these days on another forum. I just sometimes visit the clinic when in search of entertainment.

About Sky, well in short I hope they are clean and after following avidly for a while now I believe there is a bigger possibility that they are clean rather than not being clean. But I can not be sure. Their perfomance in the Tour was remarkable and personally I believe explainable, but that does not mean it can not be explained by the explanation that they have used drugs.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Altitude training again...here is that thread again


http://velorooms.com/the-doping-section/altitude-training-is-placebo/

 

[thehog]

I do not have much time to go trawling through the thread here, as I mainly post these days on another forum. I just sometimes visit the clinic when in search of entertainment.

About Sky, well in short I hope they are clean and after following avidly for a while now I believe there is a bigger possibility that they are clean rather than not being clean. But I can not be sure. Their perfomance in the Tour was remarkable and personally I believe explainable, but that does not mean it can not be explained by the explanation that they have used drugs.

Thank-you and I'm hearing you. I agree with you.

Lets hope our trust is not mislaid.

 

[cineteq]

IAbout Sky, well in short I hope they are clean and after following avidly for a while now I believe there is a bigger possibility that they are clean rather than not being clean. But I can not be sure. Their perfomance in the Tour was remarkable and personally I believe explainable, but that does not mean it can not be explained by the explanation that they have used drugs.

Too bad you didn't come to the Sky thread to make your point. Btw, did you read Fabian's comments today?

 

[maxmartin]

His physiological data and power output in Tour this year is better than his days associated with Dr. Ferrari. For me that is almost an absolute sign that he is doping right now in the SKY team.

Oh yeah Virus!!! Rogers and Froom miraculously increased their performance, because SKY detected and cured their virus problems. Give me a break!!!

Can someone confirm the power output from Rogers? I thought I read it somewhere during some interview

 

[thehog]

Then what did Rogers say?

Sick children from India will be attending the Sky training camp next year to be healed.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I think the point is that there's a massive issue of denial at Sky WRT its riders and staff that makes it seem eerily like Postal V2.0:

-Leinders was hired to save people from flesh-eating bacteria

-Sean Yates had no idea anyone at Postal was doping

-we had no idea that Michael Barry ever doped?

-Rogers went to Ferrari just for training advice...

No, these actions don't have anything to do (directly) with current practices at Sky, but it reads like a pack of lies to anyone with a brain, and the denials come from the very top of the organization...which makes a reasonable person wonder something: where does the deception stop?

That's the thing. The fanboy poms can keep loving on the Sky structure as being clean, but their roster of riders and staff keep putting huge potholes in the road of that narrative.

I don't know if it's nationalism, hero worship, blind faith, or simple retardation, but to think that that team is the only multi-million euro team doing sh*t the right way is ludicrous.

It's actually insulting.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Can someone confirm the power output from Rogers? I thought I read it somewhere during some interview

Rogers said he has increased his threshold power by 5-7% this year. You added the "compared to his best years" without basis.

 

[maxmartin]

Rogers said he has increased his threshold power by 5-7% this year. You added the "compared to his best years" without basis.

Then what he is compared to for this 5-7% increase? the level when he is 10?
Obviously when people talking about increase like that, they are referring to compare with their best level before. That is just common sense.

 

[Parker]

Two observations about Rogers:

1. A few years ago there some Australian report about doping cycling. It was around 2010 and was called something like a 'New Pathway' (I forget). They had talked confidentially to several riders, and one was an Aussie pro who a few years before who had doped just for one race a year to ensure a good contract, but was clean for the rest of the time. At the time, considering which races you could confidently make that decision for, Rogers seemed like the obvious option, to me.

2. In the aftermath of Puerto at T-Mobile there was a purge. Many riders were moved on, not offered new contracts or eventually sacked by Stapleton and Aldag (who knew things). More or less the only big name pre-Puerto rider who was ever offered a new contract.

In summary: Rogers probably doped at some point in his career. But I doubt he is someone devoted to the dope. He's just someone who did what he had to.


Footnotes:
a. Don't take any cyclist saying his power is up 7% at face value. Sportsmen say things like this to boost their morale. It's like saying they will give 110% - no-one has ever actually done that.
b. Freiburg - maybe. Didn't Someone say only 5 of the 7 of the 2006 team went? (Maybe I'm wrong)
c. Sky need to change their overly stringent recruitment policy and copy Garmin.

 

[Benotti69]

Two observations about Rogers:

1. A few years ago there some Australian report about doping cycling. It was around 2010 and was called something like a 'New Pathway' (I forget). They had talked confidentially to several riders, and one was an Aussie pro who a few years before who had doped just for one race a year to ensure a good contract, but was clean for the rest of the time. At the time, considering which races you could confidently make that decision for, Rogers seemed like the obvious option, to me.

2. In the aftermath of Puerto at T-Mobile there was a purge. Many riders were moved on, not offered new contracts or eventually sacked by Stapleton and Aldag (who knew things). More or less the only big name pre-Puerto rider who was ever offered a new contract.

In summary: Rogers probably doped at some point in his career. But I doubt he is someone devoted to the dope. He's just someone who did what he had to.


Footnotes:
a. Don't take any cyclist saying his power is up 7% at face value. Sportsmen say things like this to boost their morale. It's like saying they will give 110% - no-one has ever actually done that.
b. Freiburg - maybe. Didn't Someone say only 5 of the 7 of the 2006 team went? (Maybe I'm wrong)
c. Sky need to change their overly stringent recruitment policy and copy Garmin.

Sky dont have an "overly stringent recruitment policy" in case you didn't notice!

They took on Michael Barry, Sean Yates, Morris Possoni, and Geert Leinders to name 4.

Now what did they do with their "overly stringent recruitment policy" again?

 

[ferryman]

That's the thing. The fanboy poms can keep loving on the Sky structure as being clean, but their roster of riders and staff keep putting huge potholes in the road of that narrative.

I don't know if it's nationalism, hero worship, blind faith, or simple retardation, but to think that that team is the only multi-million euro team doing sh*t the right way is ludicrous.

It's actually insulting.

This and the rest that falls out from it. There was no nationalism on here (other than a bit of low country banter) before Sky arrived along with their merry band of glory seekers.

 

[sairyder]

come on Rupert, talk to us!

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/cycling-boss-in-drugs-inquiry-20121012-27iea.html

Rupert Guinness on White and Rogers this morning. White all over the ABC. morning news as well

 

[Parker]

Sky dont have an "overly stringent recruitment policy" in case you didn't notice!

They took on Michael Barry, Sean Yates, Morris Possoni, and Geert Leinders to name 4.

Now what did they do with their "overly stringent recruitment policy" again?

Yes they do. They have their 'no riders who have ever doped policy'. Previously, they had the 'no-one on the staff' with connections to doping.

These policies come from managers at BSkyB - not Brailsford, who has often picked Millar for GB.

The policies are idealistic, unrealistic and I doubt Brailsford believes really in them. But that doesn't mean he condones doping though. He also realises that it means he'll get a lot of flack which he can't be truly honest about because of some suit in Isleworth.

Rogers they'll probably know that he doped in the past. Same with Julich, perhaps Yates. But he knows what they are now.

Leinders - F*** up. Pure and simple. He may yet turn out to be OK. If he was involved in doping (as yet unproven) I doubt Rabobank would admit to it to them or anyone who was there - clean or dirty .