Michal Kwiatkowski Thread

[Billie]

the classics are: omloop, Strade, E3, GW, Amstel, Fleche, San Sebastian, Hamburg, Paris-Bruxelles and Paris-Tours

all other one day races are a notch beneath those races (except the monuments ofcourse)

 

[Brullnux]

*deleted as it made no contextual sense
Edit: I agree with Billie, although Milano-Torino or Emilia deserves a shout

 

[Cannibal72]

It's a tragedy Paris-Bruxelles doesn't exist any more, but otherwise I think your list is correct. Paris-Camembert is a semi-classic, not E3!

 

[TMP402]

Re:

the classics are: omloop, Strade, E3, GW, Amstel, Fleche, San Sebastian, Hamburg, Paris-Bruxelles and Paris-Tours

all other one day races are a notch beneath those races (except the monuments ofcourse)

If Omloop is, then Milano–Torino is. First run in 1876!

 

[Billie]

Re:

*deleted as it made no contextual sense
Edit: I agree with Billie, although Milano-Torino or Emilia deserves a shout

yes was thinking of milano torino aswel

Quickly going through the calender Frankfurt maybe deserves that status aswel

 

[Cannibal72]

Tre Valli Varesine, Emilia, Piedmont and maybe even Plouay are borderline, leaning towards semi-classic status, but on the edge of classicism. If Vattenfal's included, Montreal/Quebec probably should be as well.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Cobbles are too much for Kwiatkovski in the best of company. Smart riding by Sagan to follow Kwia's wheel to make sure he dropped him on the cobbled climbs.

Kwait has not had a lot of practice that this level

I beleve he can win a cobbles classic....just needs more experience and stamina

He did win one

Sorry but this is 2016. Everyone specializes. Either he focuses completely on cobbles for few years, or just goes with hills. You don't win monument on your first try without much prep.

That is what I said...are you contradicting me to then point out he same thing...he needs more practise
and this was in reply to those who said h shoul stick to the Ardeeenes
And he won a semi classic not a classic

If E3 is a semi-classic, what is a classic? I realise it's gained a huge amount of prestige very recently, but cycling races have to get their prestige at some point, and E3's indisputably a major race now. If it's not, I can't see what is, unless it's used as a redundant synonym for monument.

You can't just say only the monuments are classics, and E3 is probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest one day race that's not a monument apart after AGR and maybe GW (Well, and Olympics + Worlds but they dont count)

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

You can't just say only the monuments are classics, and E3 is probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest one day race that's not a monument apart after AGR and maybe GW (Well, and Olympics + Worlds but they dont count)

"Biggest" in what sense? If I was a classics rider I'd rather win Strade Bianche than E3, for instance. I'd view E3 as not much different to OHN or DDV in terms of prestige or purpose (warmups for Flanders, basically), it's just that E3 is WT and the other two aren't. E3 is also the youngest of the aforementioned cobbled races, and I think age does play a part in what makes a classic - Strade is the rare exception.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

You can't just say only the monuments are classics, and E3 is probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest one day race that's not a monument apart after AGR and maybe GW (Well, and Olympics + Worlds but they dont count)

"Biggest" in what sense? If I was a classics rider I'd rather win Strade Bianche than E3, for instance. I'd view E3 as not much different to OHN or DDV in terms of prestige or purpose (warmups for Flanders, basically), it's just that E3 is WT and the other two aren't. E3 is also the youngest of the aforementioned cobbled races, and I think age does play a part in what makes a classic - Strade is the rare exception.

Biggest in terms of most prestigious and important

I'm reluctant to give strade too much importance given its lack of history. But it's hard to ignore and is clearly one of the biggest races on the calendar despite being so young

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Kwait has not had a lot of practice that this level

I beleve he can win a cobbles classic....just needs more experience and stamina

He did win one

Sorry but this is 2016. Everyone specializes. Either he focuses completely on cobbles for few years, or just goes with hills. You don't win monument on your first try without much prep.

That is what I said...are you contradicting me to then point out he same thing...he needs more practise
and this was in reply to those who said h shoul stick to the Ardeeenes
And he won a semi classic not a classic

If E3 is a semi-classic, what is a classic? I realise it's gained a huge amount of prestige very recently, but cycling races have to get their prestige at some point, and E3's indisputably a major race now. If it's not, I can't see what is, unless it's used as a redundant synonym for monument.

You can't just say only the monuments are classics, and E3 is probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest one day race that's not a monument apart after AGR and maybe GW (Well, and Olympics + Worlds but they dont count)

This is the point I was originally making, but I would say Flèche was a bigger deal than AGR.

 

[armchairclimber]

So, anyway, Kwiat....

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Cobbles are too much for Kwiatkovski in the best of company. Smart riding by Sagan to follow Kwia's wheel to make sure he dropped him on the cobbled climbs.

Kwait has not had a lot of practice that this level

I beleve he can win a cobbles classic....just needs more experience and stamina

He did win one

Sorry but this is 2016. Everyone specializes. Either he focuses completely on cobbles for few years, or just goes with hills. You don't win monument on your first try without much prep.

That is what I said...are you contradicting me to then point out he same thing...he needs more practise
and this was in reply to those who said h shoul stick to the Ardeeenes
And he won a semi classic not a classic[/quote]

All WT one-day races are classics, and couple of others too (Strade, Het Volk)

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

So, anyway, Kwiat....

Apparently, all things classic, semi-classic, big one day races, and monuments, all revolve around Kwiat

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

So, anyway, Kwiat....

Apparently, all things classic, semi-classic, big one day races, and monuments, all revolve around Kwiat

It's really quite impressive to win all the most prestigious races short of a monument, I have to say.

 

[JRanton]

Made Sky look stupid today. If you're not on a good day then you communicate that fact to your teammates earlier in the race so some riders who could potentially do something in the final (Nordhaug, Poels) don't sacrifice themselves for you.

 

[SeriousSam]

Startlingly inconsistent.

 

[JRanton]

Re:

Startlingly inconsistent.

And there was someone in this thread who suggested he should be undisputed leader in every monument for Sky. That is just mental. He deserves protected status of course in MSR, RVV and LBL but he's too inconsistent to rely on as the outright leader.

It was already very concerning what happened to him after last year's AGR. His form can just disappear off a cliff.

 

[damian13ster]

Made Sky look stupid today. If you're not on a good day then you communicate that fact to your teammates earlier in the race so some riders who could potentially do something in the final (Nordhaug, Poels) don't sacrifice themselves for you.

The problem with Michal is (based on every interview after each race where he similarly sucked) that he feels good, doesn't have problems, and suddenly at one moment entire energy is gone.
Really frustrating for his fans, but hard to blame him for having his team work in such scenario.

 

[JRanton]

Made Sky look stupid today. If you're not on a good day then you communicate that fact to your teammates earlier in the race so some riders who could potentially do something in the final (Nordhaug, Poels) don't sacrifice themselves for you.

The problem with Michal is (based on every interview after each race where he similarly sucked) that he feels good, doesn't have problems, and suddenly at one moment entire energy is gone.
Really frustrating for his fans, but hard to blame him for having his team work in such scenario.

You say that but I saw an interview of his after Flanders and he admitted he didn't feel great which is why he went on the attack early instead of waiting for the final lap. Of course when you're going clear with the likes of Sagan and Vanmarcke and you don't feel that good, it isn't exactly a great race winning tactic.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Made Sky look stupid today. If you're not on a good day then you communicate that fact to your teammates earlier in the race so some riders who could potentially do something in the final (Nordhaug, Poels) don't sacrifice themselves for you.

The problem with Michal is (based on every interview after each race where he similarly sucked) that he feels good, doesn't have problems, and suddenly at one moment entire energy is gone.
Really frustrating for his fans, but hard to blame him for having his team work in such scenario.

You say that but I saw an interview of his after Flanders and he admitted he didn't feel great which is why he went on the attack early instead of waiting for the final lap. Of course when you're going clear with the likes of Sagan and Vanmarcke and you don't feel that good, it isn't exactly a great race winning tactic.

Neither is working your ass off if you're not feeling good while Vanmarcke, who is stronger, rides conservatively

 

[pastronef]

he blew. light went off

maybe he suffered the cold and got a bad stomach

 

[HelloDolly]

The problem wasKwait blew...that can happen to anyone . The problem was SKY had one plan....

Riders like Swift & Nordaugh were used up and not kept in reserve ....Also no need to ride Sergio Heano who could be kept fresh for Fletche..
SKY had rider to chase on the Cauberg while they needed a sprinter if race came back together

 

[JRanton]

Re:

The problem wasKwait blew...that can happen to anyone . The problem was SKY had one plan....

Riders like Swift & Nordaugh were used up and not kept in reserve ....Also no need to ride Sergio Heano who could be kept fresh for Fletche..
SKY had rider to chase on the Cauberg while they needed a sprinter if race came back together

This is all on Kwiatkowski. As leader he asked the team to ride like that (like Poland did at the worlds) and given that he wasn't on a good day then he should have said something.

If he is one of these riders who can just blow at any given moment then you can't realistically make him undisputed leader for any classic, even as defending champion.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Startlingly inconsistent.

And there was someone in this thread who suggested he should be undisputed leader in every monument for Sky. That is just mental. He deserves protected status of course in MSR, RVV and LBL but he's too inconsistent to rely on as the outright leader.

It was already very concerning what happened to him after last year's AGR. His form can just disappear off a cliff.

I think the difference between last and this year is that in 2015 he actually never had a really good shape. Yeah he won Amstel but he really wasnt that good on the Cauberg and only won because everything came back together and nobody wanted to work.

This year however he showed a great shape in some one day races (I mean he won E3, a race which doesnt even suit him that well) but when he comes to the races which should suit him the best he is absolutely nowhere. Nevertheless I wouldnt even be that surprised if this was only one bad day and he will be okay again in LBL.

 

[Mr.White]

He should better end his spring classics season now.