Michal Kwiatkowski Thread

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

I think his sprinting is close to Sagan's. However since he does not use it in sprinting for the green jersey or the normal sprints, nobody knows about it.

If Kwiat could win bunch sprints, he'd certainly try. Big difference between a low speed sprint after a hard race and a 65km/h dash at the end of an easy race.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Anyway, MSR down. He clearly has the attributes to win LBL and Lombardia. If he can win E3, maybe he can win Flanders too (although it should be noted he really struggled on the cobbles even in the E3 he won). And then who knows, with enough training, if he wants to win all 5 monuments himself too, he could try PR too. He's also already won the worlds.

 

[yaco]

Kwiatkowski will always struggle in Ronde Vlaanderen and Paris Roubiax as they don't suit his characteristics - Think Lombardia is a stretch against good climbers - Ardennes should suit his characteristics.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Kwiatkowski will always struggle in Ronde Vlaanderen and Paris Roubiax as they don't suit his characteristics - Think Lombardia is a stretch against good climbers - Ardennes should suit his characteristics.

Hmm, no. Let him try to peak for Flanders and race it. Don't give me he tried in 2016 as he was worse in the Ardennes anyways. Kwito is definitely a Flanders-rider.

 

[Gigs_98]

It's actually impressive that Kwiatkowskis one day race palmares is only slightly worse than Sagans.

Sagan has won:
-2xWC
-RVV
-2x GW
-E3
-Quebec
-Montreal

Kwiat has won:
-WC
-MSR
-E3
-AGR
-2x SB

So Sagan has one more very big win and all in all 2 more classics. Still considering that 2014 was Kwiats first good season and that he was far from his best in the last two years this is very surprising.

And that's the usual problem when you only look at one aspect (aka winning, although the far most important one). Or do you really think Kwiatkowski is very close to Sagan in terms of one-day racing? I don't. Although I think, he really is one of the finest classics riders in the peloton, and today's victory is a testament to that.

That was the point of the post. The statistic makes it look as if kwiat is about as good as Sagan although the reality is that sagan is clearly at least one class above him. Although kwiatkowski is ofc still a superb classics rider

I get your point, but you didn't get mine. With a superficial observation, of only major wins, it looks like they're really close. But, if you scratch a little bit, you'll find that Sagan has 3 Monument podiums and numerous top10 placings in them. Kwiat has one podium and no top10 other than that. Sagan has 5 other WT classics wins + 8 podiums, Kwiat has 3 wins + 1 podium. Sagan has 18 one-day wins (Including Nationals), Kwiat has 8 wins. So, to summarize, just looking at the whole statistics of these two riders, to me it's obvious that Sagan is clearly better one-day rider

Are you 100% sure that I don't get your point?

 

[Sciocco]

Re:

Kwiatkowski will always struggle in Ronde Vlaanderen and Paris Roubiax as they don't suit his characteristics - Think Lombardia is a stretch against good climbers - Ardennes should suit his characteristics.

Yea but sometimes it's just a decent size group at Bergamo Alta after as easier Lombardia. He should be able to contend then.

 

[Mr.White]

It's actually impressive that Kwiatkowskis one day race palmares is only slightly worse than Sagans.

Sagan has won:
-2xWC
-RVV
-2x GW
-E3
-Quebec
-Montreal

Kwiat has won:
-WC
-MSR
-E3
-AGR
-2x SB

So Sagan has one more very big win and all in all 2 more classics. Still considering that 2014 was Kwiats first good season and that he was far from his best in the last two years this is very surprising.

And that's the usual problem when you only look at one aspect (aka winning, although the far most important one). Or do you really think Kwiatkowski is very close to Sagan in terms of one-day racing? I don't. Although I think, he really is one of the finest classics riders in the peloton, and today's victory is a testament to that.

That was the point of the post. The statistic makes it look as if kwiat is about as good as Sagan although the reality is that sagan is clearly at least one class above him. Although kwiatkowski is ofc still a superb classics rider

I get your point, but you didn't get mine. With a superficial observation, of only major wins, it looks like they're really close. But, if you scratch a little bit, you'll find that Sagan has 3 Monument podiums and numerous top10 placings in them. Kwiat has one podium and no top10 other than that. Sagan has 5 other WT classics wins + 8 podiums, Kwiat has 3 wins + 1 podium. Sagan has 18 one-day wins (Including Nationals), Kwiat has 8 wins. So, to summarize, just looking at the whole statistics of these two riders, to me it's obvious that Sagan is clearly better one-day rider

Are you 100% sure that I don't get your point?

Well, let's clear things up. To me, ONLY looking at STATISTICS, Sagan is clearly better classics rider than Kwiatkowski. Is that the case with you too?

 

[Gigs_98]

Yeah I agree

 

[Mr.White]

It's settled then..

 

[damian13ster]

Smartest rider in the sport! And now gets his first (hopefully of many) monument win. Amazing!

 

[Akuryo]

Smartest rider in the sport! And now gets his first (hopefully of many) monument win. Amazing!

This! Been saying that for a long time. He is so smart but too often his legs did not hold what his head was capable of. So far it seems he's in incredible shape. But a few years ago he faded in April after strong outings in February and March. Lets hope he can keep it up this time around.

 

[Akuryo]

I stand corrected, really strong ride today (except going too early in the sprint that is).

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Really disappointed by his finish today. He's usually much smarter than that. What was he thinking starting his sprint that early? That said, it was one hell of a ride today. He has really bounced back strong this year.

 

[Brullnux]

I think this was one of the first times Kwiat has made a large tactical error. Actually there was another one on the way to Planche des Belles Filles in 2014 where he attacked with quite a few km to go with Martin with him and then was completely cooked and lost a lot of time. But other than that not much.

 

[frisenfruitig]

He just wanted to surprise Gilbert, not necessarily a "large tactical error" imo. It's not like he was guaranteed to win if he waited a bit longer. Gilbert is also pretty damn fast at the end of a long race like this.

 

[tobydawq]

It was the exact same thing that he did in E3 last year by going from 300 metres out. The difference was that last year, Sagan gave up and Gilbert didn't do that today. Of course that was because of a headwind, which makes such a maneouvre quite silly (but he did get a big gap and was probably close to coming out of Gilbert's drag zone).

 

[damian13ster]

***, so close.
Gilbert was just a bit stronger in the end. Tactics were pretty bad (in the sprint, absolutely loved the aggressiveness in the race), although I though gap was enough to justify the move and that Michal will be able to hold on. Seems like he slightly overestimated his strength. Anyway, extremely happy with his performance.
Showed really good strength, and LBL is the target, not AGR.
Also enjoyed post-race interview. Clearly dissapointed despite great showing, and pissed off at the mistake. Will only make him stronger next week.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

Re:

It was the exact same thing that he did in E3 last year by going from 300 metres out. The difference was that last year, Sagan gave up and Gilbert didn't do that today. Of course that was because of a headwind, which makes such a maneouvre quite silly (but he did get a big gap and was probably close to coming out of Gilbert's drag zone).

Yep, exact same tactic. He totally caught Sagan out. Seems like Phil was willing to dig deeper though.

 

[klintE]

I've heard a rumour that Bahrain Merida is determined to sign Kwiatkowski for the next season. Interesting.

 

[JRanton]

His positioning was absolutely terrible in the final today. I don't understand what he was doing. He was right behind Moscon just before Saint-Nicolas and then just disappeared to the back of the group. Then he does the same thing before the final drag to the line. He was incredibly strong in the final 500 meters and the only one capable of challenging Valverde.

I guess he already has two big classic wins this year, including his first monument, but it feels like a wasted opportunity not to have at least added one Ardennes classic to his palmares in the past week.

 

[yaco]

Kwiatkovski's tactics were fine - Valverde was in another class.

 

[jaylew]

Once it came down to the final K, 3rd was the best he could hope for.

 

[JRanton]

Re:

Once it came down to the final K, 3rd was the best he could hope for.

He started his effort right from the back of the group, basically at least 30 meters behind Valverde. He wasn't even giving himself a chance to compete for the win.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Once it came down to the final K, 3rd was the best he could hope for.

He started his effort right from the back of the group, basically at least 30 meters behind Valverde. He wasn't even giving himself a chance to compete for the win.

Which shows probably that he was on the limit on St.Nicholas and tried to conserve energy for one last punch, which he did. If he had the strength he would be up front in Ans, right on Valverde's wheel

 

[Arked]

His positioning was absolutely terrible in the final today. I don't understand what he was doing.

He wasn't doing it on purpose. He fell back because tempo was very hard (as he himself admitted). I know some people here think it was raced too easy but in my opinion it was totally opposite. That's why there was no meaningful attacks before the last climb. Two last climbs were just the game of attrition. He had to decide: move forward earlier, burn some matches and probably blow up on the last climb way before the finish line or leave the matches for the last 500m. I think he made the right choice.