Miguel Ángel Lopez Discussion Thread

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After listening to the interviews, he has apologised to everyone involved but has evaded all questions about the details of what happened.


Looks like some people mistook a suggestion that the chase was pointless after the gap was several minutes as an order.

Yeah, that's possible... if you are very heated and emotional and desperate I suppose that can make one lose it when there is no rational reason to...
 
Sponsors are in this for exposure and brand awareness. If Movistar's was a bike component manufacturer, they should prefer a good result because it associates positively with the quality of their products... But for that they already have Mas's second place.

For "normal" sponsors they live by screen time, headlines and time in new mouths of the commentators. And given the situation of the road where MAL was dropped without remedy for the lower bounds of the top-10, he would probably not give any relevant exposure nor being featured in the overall cerimonies tomorrow. His tantrum gave much more screen and media time for Movistar than anything he could have done after losing the favourites train.

I highlighted the exact thing that in my opinion the sponsor could be wondering about - how did that happen, did the team management have a role in that happening, how did it escalate to a DNF and can it happen again.

But maybe you are right, there is no such thing as bad publicity.
 
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I highlighted the exact thing that in my opinion the sponsor could be wondering about - how did that happen, did the team management have a role in that happening, how did it escalate to a DNF and can it happen again.

But maybe you are right, there is no such thing as bad publicity.

Movistar/Telefonica is a media company not a bike company or clothing company. Stories sell papers or ratings or clicks.
 
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Even in that interview, the timeline is pretty hazy. He made it sound like it all happened immediately but he didn't explicitly say that so ¯\(ツ)

(Plus obviously this is what the editor wrote after talking to Rafael Acevedo who talked to Nathalia Acevedo who talked to MAL. That Chinese telephone game probably works already with only half this many people involved)
Since info went from Lopez to wife to father in law to journalist I'd probably call it Hanlons razor tbh.

Edit lol just saw we said the same thing. :tearsofjoy:

I agree with you then yes :)
 
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Eusebio Unzué is a smarter man than he is often given credit for, after all he has managed to stick it out in the sport for all these years. He's only been the team manager since 2008, but he served a long apprenticeship under Echavarrí. It's no surprise that he has inherited some of the traits of Echavarrí as a result. Echavarrí had a similar moment in 1996, with the cameras lingering at length on a Miguel Indurain who had had enough of a Vuelta he didn't want to be at and hadn't been prepared properly for; he had been dropped and was fed up, but due to his stature in the sport, plenty of coverage was provided of the great champion arguing with his team boss about his decision to abandon. Indurain never raced again. And Echavarrí was forced to choose between his team leaders after the flare-up at the 1998 Vuelta made it untenable that Jiménez and Olano could co-exist.

However, despite Olano having won that Vuelta, and being the logical pick, especially with much of the same DS committee that had managed Indurain's Tour and Giro wins still intact, Echavarrí sided with Chava, because Chava was his sentimental favourite. Echavarrí played favourites a lot. Not necessarily deliberately, but it definitely happened. And that's definitely a trait which Unzué inherited. I mean, just look at the way Joaquím Rodríguez was treated as Valverde's kid brother through his time at the team, and how much influence in decision-making at the team Valverde has had over the years. He just had a triple threat leadership committee and, when forced to disband it because they could no longer coexist, he chose the guy in his late 30s who hasn't won a GT since a solitary win a decade ago, in a tamely raced edition where he was one of only about 3 riders to target that race specifically because at the time he had no choice in that matter. The core team matters to Unzué, and he likes going with what he knows. It's why he likes internal hires - people like Lastras and García Acosta becoming guys in the cars as soon as they hang up the cleats - and retreads - rehiring guys he knows from before even when they're past their prime, like Moreno, Plaza and Karpets - as well as rewarding loyal long-term servants like Erviti and Rojas and giving them first dibs on the calendar. They also largely like to bring young riders through from their own feeder system, and this has served them well even if they have to bring them through slowly once at the pro level. So it's a team where seniority and tenure wields power, and the team manager is keen on reinforcing what he knows.

He also has had to deal with a good few flaky, inconsistent riders, and overly-emotional, heart over head racers in his time. Which is not in and of itself a problem - after all, we all knew Supermán's reputation prior to his signing. We've all seen him win brutal MTFs, and collapse completely, we've all seen him capitulate in time trials at the beginning and the end of races, we've seen him lose his cool and argue with people in a group with him, we've seen him agitate and ruin chemistry in a chase, we've seen him lose his mind entirely and assault spectators. He'd had his fallings out with the Movistar guys before signing, too. But the thing that makes this so weird is that until now, the relationship had worked well. Almost too well, in fact. The team were patient with him while Coronavirus impacted his training, they worked for him in the small races to bring him up to speed, and he in turn was willing to stay in the Tour long past the point at which he would have been justified abandoning, as the team needed what little help he could provide as a domestique for Mas, and he and Mas had been working well together in the Vuelta thus far. The one-year experiment had been deemed a success and he had come to terms on an extension. And then, almost as soon as everything seemed to be looking up and the team had solved the co-leaders problem, a bomb goes off.

Now, considering the miserable time he had at the Tour and the work he did for the team, and how he had patiently played his side of the game in the Vuelta, did he feel that he was being palmed off as a #2? That the team was paying lip service to a 1A/1B scenario but was proving themselves solidly behind Mas despite him having got that win in the queen stage? Hard to say, but we know MAL is short-tempered and we also don't know what was said. Potentially some words from the team car about tactics veered too close to a personal slight for his liking? If we actually did have Unzué micro-managing, going above his DSes and giving MAL the instructions personally, then yes, I can see why that would send him over the edge. Because if he already feels the message is that "you aren't as important to us" in a team where we know there are favoured sons, having Unzué instructing him directly over the head of his DSes also sends the message "I don't trust you to follow orders" as well.

It's quite likely, once all the dust settles, that this is largely built out of a combination of misunderstanding, pride and frustration. After all, you have a team with history of struggling to juggle multiple leaders and long list of questionable tactical decisions, giving a questionable tactical instruction to a volatile and temperamental rider, who has been hired as part of a multiple-leader setup and is on a bad day that will likely be made worse by this decision.
 
Eusebio Unzué is a smarter man than he is often given credit for, after all he has managed to stick it out in the sport for all these years. He's only been the team manager since 2008, but he served a long apprenticeship under Echavarrí. It's no surprise that he has inherited some of the traits of Echavarrí as a result. Echavarrí had a similar moment in 1996, with the cameras lingering at length on a Miguel Indurain who had had enough of a Vuelta he didn't want to be at and hadn't been prepared properly for; he had been dropped and was fed up, but due to his stature in the sport, plenty of coverage was provided of the great champion arguing with his team boss about his decision to abandon. Indurain never raced again. And Echavarrí was forced to choose between his team leaders after the flare-up at the 1998 Vuelta made it untenable that Jiménez and Olano could co-exist.

However, despite Olano having won that Vuelta, and being the logical pick, especially with much of the same DS committee that had managed Indurain's Tour and Giro wins still intact, Echavarrí sided with Chava, because Chava was his sentimental favourite. Echavarrí played favourites a lot. Not necessarily deliberately, but it definitely happened. And that's definitely a trait which Unzué inherited. I mean, just look at the way Joaquím Rodríguez was treated as Valverde's kid brother through his time at the team, and how much influence in decision-making at the team Valverde has had over the years. He just had a triple threat leadership committee and, when forced to disband it because they could no longer coexist, he chose the guy in his late 30s who hasn't won a GT since a solitary win a decade ago, in a tamely raced edition where he was one of only about 3 riders to target that race specifically because at the time he had no choice in that matter. The core team matters to Unzué, and he likes going with what he knows. It's why he likes internal hires - people like Lastras and García Acosta becoming guys in the cars as soon as they hang up the cleats - and retreads - rehiring guys he knows from before even when they're past their prime, like Moreno, Plaza and Karpets - as well as rewarding loyal long-term servants like Erviti and Rojas and giving them first dibs on the calendar. They also largely like to bring young riders through from their own feeder system, and this has served them well even if they have to bring them through slowly once at the pro level. So it's a team where seniority and tenure wields power, and the team manager is keen on reinforcing what he knows.

He also has had to deal with a good few flaky, inconsistent riders, and overly-emotional, heart over head racers in his time. Which is not in and of itself a problem - after all, we all knew Supermán's reputation prior to his signing. We've all seen him win brutal MTFs, and collapse completely, we've all seen him capitulate in time trials at the beginning and the end of races, we've seen him lose his cool and argue with people in a group with him, we've seen him agitate and ruin chemistry in a chase, we've seen him lose his mind entirely and assault spectators. He'd had his fallings out with the Movistar guys before signing, too. But the thing that makes this so weird is that until now, the relationship had worked well. Almost too well, in fact. The team were patient with him while Coronavirus impacted his training, they worked for him in the small races to bring him up to speed, and he in turn was willing to stay in the Tour long past the point at which he would have been justified abandoning, as the team needed what little help he could provide as a domestique for Mas, and he and Mas had been working well together in the Vuelta thus far. The one-year experiment had been deemed a success and he had come to terms on an extension. And then, almost as soon as everything seemed to be looking up and the team had solved the co-leaders problem, a bomb goes off.

Now, considering the miserable time he had at the Tour and the work he did for the team, and how he had patiently played his side of the game in the Vuelta, did he feel that he was being palmed off as a #2? That the team was paying lip service to a 1A/1B scenario but was proving themselves solidly behind Mas despite him having got that win in the queen stage? Hard to say, but we know MAL is short-tempered and we also don't know what was said. Potentially some words from the team car about tactics veered too close to a personal slight for his liking? If we actually did have Unzué micro-managing, going above his DSes and giving MAL the instructions personally, then yes, I can see why that would send him over the edge. Because if he already feels the message is that "you aren't as important to us" in a team where we know there are favoured sons, having Unzué instructing him directly over the head of his DSes also sends the message "I don't trust you to follow orders" as well.

It's quite likely, once all the dust settles, that this is largely built out of a combination of misunderstanding, pride and frustration. After all, you have a team with history of struggling to juggle multiple leaders and long list of questionable tactical decisions, giving a questionable tactical instruction to a volatile and temperamental rider, who has been hired as part of a multiple-leader setup and is on a bad day that will likely be made worse by this decision.

The only thing I'd add to this is that Valverde has also anointed Mas as his successor to leadership of the team.
 
The only thing I'd add to this is that Valverde has also anointed Mas as his successor to leadership of the team.

I’d back Mas too on overall strengths. But with Lopez yet another non Spaniard gets cast aside at Movistar. Same as Quintana. Same as Carapaz. The problems on the road today might also be partly the consequence of nationalistic bias. That’s what it looks like?
 
I’d back Mas too on overall strengths. But with Lopez yet another non Spaniard gets cast aside at Movistar. Same as Quintana. Same as Carapaz. The problems on the road today might also be partly the consequence of nationalistic bias. That’s what it looks like?
I think it's a bit hard to say that with Carapaz, as he was brought through at Movistar and they backed him to that Giro, but by then he was already rumoured to Sky. Yes, they fell out with him afterward, but he contributed to that himself by getting injured in a crit he'd been asked not to race because they wanted him to co-lead the Vuelta. He wasn't a rider they had marginalised, otherwise they wouldn't have been so wounded by his moving on.

The thing with López is that he has a much better chance than Mas of salvaging something from the race if a GC tilt fails, because he's an elite climber on his day so can serve as a star stagehunter, like Quintana did when his Tour GC bids went awry. Mas hasn't really shown that side of himself. I compared their list of wins when López first signed, and López' list of wins is super strong and chocked full of MTFs and queen stages. Mas' is very limited because he's not shown himself to have many weapons for stage wins or one-day races at this point in his career, so he lives and dies by GT performance in a way that the team needs to supplement with secondary and tertiary leaders to get wins and podiums across the calendar to take the pressure off him.
 
"el Movistar Team le pidieron que dejara de perseguir para no perjudicar a su compañero Enric Mas"


According to "El Tiempo" (Colombian Newspaper) Movistar DS asked MAL not to brigde to Enric Mas's group so he (Mas) could have a greater chance on the GC and a Stage Win.

If that's true, then MAL was right for pulling out in disgust by such nonsense.
 
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Eusebio Unzué is a smarter man than he is often given credit for, after all he has managed to stick it out in the sport for all these years. He's only been the team manager since 2008, but he served a long apprenticeship under Echavarrí. It's no surprise that he has inherited some of the traits of Echavarrí as a result. Echavarrí had a similar moment in 1996, with the cameras lingering at length on a Miguel Indurain who had had enough of a Vuelta he didn't want to be at and hadn't been prepared properly for; he had been dropped and was fed up, but due to his stature in the sport, plenty of coverage was provided of the great champion arguing with his team boss about his decision to abandon. Indurain never raced again. And Echavarrí was forced to choose between his team leaders after the flare-up at the 1998 Vuelta made it untenable that Jiménez and Olano could co-exist.

However, despite Olano having won that Vuelta, and being the logical pick, especially with much of the same DS committee that had managed Indurain's Tour and Giro wins still intact, Echavarrí sided with Chava, because Chava was his sentimental favourite. Echavarrí played favourites a lot. Not necessarily deliberately, but it definitely happened. And that's definitely a trait which Unzué inherited. I mean, just look at the way Joaquím Rodríguez was treated as Valverde's kid brother through his time at the team, and how much influence in decision-making at the team Valverde has had over the years. He just had a triple threat leadership committee and, when forced to disband it because they could no longer coexist, he chose the guy in his late 30s who hasn't won a GT since a solitary win a decade ago, in a tamely raced edition where he was one of only about 3 riders to target that race specifically because at the time he had no choice in that matter. The core team matters to Unzué, and he likes going with what he knows. It's why he likes internal hires - people like Lastras and García Acosta becoming guys in the cars as soon as they hang up the cleats - and retreads - rehiring guys he knows from before even when they're past their prime, like Moreno, Plaza and Karpets - as well as rewarding loyal long-term servants like Erviti and Rojas and giving them first dibs on the calendar. They also largely like to bring young riders through from their own feeder system, and this has served them well even if they have to bring them through slowly once at the pro level. So it's a team where seniority and tenure wields power, and the team manager is keen on reinforcing what he knows.

He also has had to deal with a good few flaky, inconsistent riders, and overly-emotional, heart over head racers in his time. Which is not in and of itself a problem - after all, we all knew Supermán's reputation prior to his signing. We've all seen him win brutal MTFs, and collapse completely, we've all seen him capitulate in time trials at the beginning and the end of races, we've seen him lose his cool and argue with people in a group with him, we've seen him agitate and ruin chemistry in a chase, we've seen him lose his mind entirely and assault spectators. He'd had his fallings out with the Movistar guys before signing, too. But the thing that makes this so weird is that until now, the relationship had worked well. Almost too well, in fact. The team were patient with him while Coronavirus impacted his training, they worked for him in the small races to bring him up to speed, and he in turn was willing to stay in the Tour long past the point at which he would have been justified abandoning, as the team needed what little help he could provide as a domestique for Mas, and he and Mas had been working well together in the Vuelta thus far. The one-year experiment had been deemed a success and he had come to terms on an extension. And then, almost as soon as everything seemed to be looking up and the team had solved the co-leaders problem, a bomb goes off.

Now, considering the miserable time he had at the Tour and the work he did for the team, and how he had patiently played his side of the game in the Vuelta, did he feel that he was being palmed off as a #2? That the team was paying lip service to a 1A/1B scenario but was proving themselves solidly behind Mas despite him having got that win in the queen stage? Hard to say, but we know MAL is short-tempered and we also don't know what was said. Potentially some words from the team car about tactics veered too close to a personal slight for his liking? If we actually did have Unzué micro-managing, going above his DSes and giving MAL the instructions personally, then yes, I can see why that would send him over the edge. Because if he already feels the message is that "you aren't as important to us" in a team where we know there are favoured sons, having Unzué instructing him directly over the head of his DSes also sends the message "I don't trust you to follow orders" as well.

It's quite likely, once all the dust settles, that this is largely built out of a combination of misunderstanding, pride and frustration. After all, you have a team with history of struggling to juggle multiple leaders and long list of questionable tactical decisions, giving a questionable tactical instruction to a volatile and temperamental rider, who has been hired as part of a multiple-leader setup and is on a bad day that will likely be made worse by this decision.
Spot on. Unfortunately, also very true about the questionable tactics the team often employs. However, all the more understandable given how they recruit and promote.
 
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it's incredible that Movistar somehow made it through 19 stages doing a solid job by going mostly under the radar without any controversy or terrible failures only to end up with the worst one yet. i actually think that people have been incredibly unfair to Movistar in recent years, it has become a meme that people love to run with any time their tactics dont work out 100% and a lot of time the people handing down the criticism do not understand the tactics that they are criticizing, but this time it is truly deserved.
 
That’s Colombian media for you. Everything is a conspiracy against their countrymen. That idea is laughably bad.

On opposition to those shining examples of journalistic rigor: AS/COPE/Sport/El Chiringuito,etc. Glass houses and all that.

Spanish media favor their riders, Belgian media favor their riders, Colombian media... It is like there is a pattern here.

Movistar is the flagship Spanish team and for many reasons it will always work to have Spanish riders as its main stars. With what we know so far it seems MAL had a stupid meltdown but I am pretty sure if the riders were reversed( Mas <--> MAL) the orders coming from the team car would have been different.

The best outcome for everybody is for Superman to go to another team (So Movistar can happily ride against him a la Carapaz). But I suspect money will talk and he will stay, sulking these next 2 years but getting paid anyway
 
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I’m not
On opposition to those shining examples of journalistic rigor: AS/COPE/Sport/El Chiringuito,etc. Glass houses and all that.

Spanish media favor their riders, Belgian media favor their riders, Colombian media... It is like there is a pattern here.

Movistar is the flagship Spanish team and for many reasons it will always work to have Spanish riders as its main stars. With what we know so far it seems MAL had a stupid meltdown but I am pretty sure if the riders were reversed( Mas <--> MAL) the orders coming from the team car would have been different.

The best outcome for everybody is for Superman to go to another team (So Movistar can happily ride against him a la Carapaz). But I suspect money will talk and he will stay, sulking these next 2 years but getting paid anyway
I’m not Spanish so no skin off my back. That’s the thing. Lopez chased the entire climb. Nobody ordered him to not follow. That is coming strictly from Colombian media.

Watch the video from Chris Horner. Lopez was likely told to wait for Rojas on the descent because he was 45 seconds off the leaders over the top of the climb and he was pulling all the way to the top. Rojas came up to Lopez but Padun had dropped back and was pulling the leaders with Mader. They had no chance of catching them.
 
I was - and still am - grateful when MAL allowed Porte to make the podium of last year's TDF with a subpar performance in the ITT.

But even as an Australian, and not excluding the insane entertainment levels of what happened, I just kind of wish that stage 20 of this Vuelta didn't go down the way that it did.

Actually I didn't even realise that he hadn't podiumed a grand tour. I just assumed that he would have done it in a Giro or Vuelta at some stage.
 
I was - and still am - grateful when MAL allowed Porte to make the podium of last year's TDF with a subpar performance in the ITT.

But even as an Australian, and not excluding the insane entertainment levels of what happened, I just kind of wish that stage 20 of this Vuelta didn't go down the way that it did.

Actually I didn't even realise that he hadn't podiumed a grand tour. I just assumed that he would have done it in a Giro or Vuelta at some stage.

I thought he (Lopez) finished 3rd at La Vuelta in 2018.
 
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