Mikel Landa Discussion Thread

[SafeBet]

Really impressed with his performance so far, but I don't think Astana is in for anything crazy.
They know it's unlikely to break Contador and if they keep riding this way they'll have two riders on the podium. Not bad if you ask me.

 

[cellardoor]

Re:

Mikel wondering why the others are grimacing

Aru really needs to sort out his game-face. Is there such a thing as a game-face consultant?

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Really impressed with his performance so far, but I don't think Astana is in for anything crazy.
They know it's unlikely to break Contador and if they keep riding this way they'll have two riders on the podium. Not bad if you ask me.

You are right. It's pretty simple. On each MTF it comes down to two against one and the one is not weakening. For all of Astana's pace setting and work they have not really had Contador in trouble. For all of their numbers they have not really exploited it with long range attacks. It's pretty clear that Rogers and Kreuziger are usually gone early on the last climbs also. What they should have done is tried to get Landa or one of the others in a break early in the race instead of just pace setting in the bunch. It's been a while since a good rider was allowed too much time in the break. Of course Pereiro in 2006 Tour was plain bizarre and then you had Voeckler in the 2011 Tour. Four minutes off winning the race.

It's always possible for teams to get it wrong and react too late even with race radios although a lot rarer now. In other words only daring tactics were going to possibly beat Contador and so far it has been textbook stuff from his rivals. But Contador is also pretty smart tactically and maybe that would not have even worked either but his team has showed weakness in this race and he might have had to rely on other teams in a long chase and that is always a gamble as GreenEdge found out last week with Zakarin winning after GE worked so hard for so long but with not much help from other teams.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Landa is clearly climbing better than anyone in this race. Astana should just let him off the leash even though he would still have trouble cracking Contador. Aru is not going to win the Giro so second or third, it does not matter. Only misfortune can stop Contador. It is ridiculous watching Landa having to wait for Aru.

Landa wanst yesterday very correct thinking in Aru, but I agree with you, the must unleash himm it is the only possibility to put contador ir problems.

But Aru is italian, and this is the Giro.

 

[Dedelou]

Re: Re:

Landa is clearly climbing better than anyone in this race. Astana should just let him off the leash even though he would still have trouble cracking Contador. Aru is not going to win the Giro so second or third, it does not matter. Only misfortune can stop Contador. It is ridiculous watching Landa having to wait for Aru.

Landa wanst yesterday very correct thinking in Aru, but I agree with you, the must unleash himm it is the only possibility to put contador ir problems.

But Aru is italian, and this is the Giro.

good thing some of the posters here are not the Team's DS I can read a lot of recipes for disaster in the page of this forum. Astana got a stage win yesterday and protected their second place not a bad deal in a race where the first place was never in question. of Course some of you would have like to see Landa play domestic to Contador and tow him to a victory at his team leader's expense but hey.. none of you are paying his dinner , Vino and Astana do.

 

[cineteq]

Re:

Really impressed with his performance so far, but I don't think Astana is in for anything crazy.
They know it's unlikely to break Contador and if they keep riding this way they'll have two riders on the podium. Not bad if you ask me.

This is why cycling is so boring nowadays. This way of thinking is killing cycling.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Really impressed with his performance so far, but I don't think Astana is in for anything crazy.
They know it's unlikely to break Contador and if they keep riding this way they'll have two riders on the podium. Not bad if you ask me.

Yes it awesome to have nr2 and 3.

Let's not care about victory shall we? No we can't beat Contador anyways.. he is sooo mighty!
Yes he is, but if you don't have the balls to challenge him your just a weak cowardly piece of sh*t.

What if Contador actually collapses because of Landa attacking early? If you don't try you will never know it.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Really impressed with his performance so far, but I don't think Astana is in for anything crazy.
They know it's unlikely to break Contador and if they keep riding this way they'll have two riders on the podium. Not bad if you ask me.

This is why cycling is so boring nowadays. This way of thinking is killing cycling.

Indeed. So many people and riders thinking about 2nd place or 6th or whatever...

For some riders it makes sense, but it obviously doesn't make sense for Astana now. Who are simply very strong and Landa is feeling great so unleash him ffs.

 

[SafeBet]

Kwibus I would normally agree with you, but this is not the case. We're talking about two podium places, not a random 6th or 9th.
And this would be huge for both, especially for Landa, a rider who's got no GT palmares to speak of.

Say you're in Landa's position now. You're sitting in 4th place and you know you've got a very realistic shot at your first GT podium. How would you feel if your DS came up with a plan to send you in a suicide attack from 150km out?

 

[cineteq]

Re:

Kwibus I would normally agree with you, but this is not the case. We're talking about two podium places, not a random 6th or 9th.
And this would be huge for both, especially for Landa, a rider who's got no GT palmares to speak of

Valverde would be so proud of you!

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Kwibus I would normally agree with you, but this is not the case. We're talking about two podium places, not a random 6th or 9th.
And this would be huge for both, especially for Landa, a rider who's got no GT palmares to speak of.

Say you're in Landa's position now. You're sitting in 4th place and you know you've got a very realistic shot at your first GT podium. How would you feel if your DS came up with a plan to send you in a suicide attack from 150km out?

It doesnt have to be 150. Mortirolo is 40 out. You put Astana riders in the break attempts all day, tiring saxo out, then you 1-2 contador with Aru and landa all the way up mortirolo until 1 gets free to try and catch the Astana rider in front.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re: Re:

For some riders it makes sense, but it obviously doesn't make sense for Astana now. Who are simply very strong and Landa is feeling great so unleash him ffs.

Where should his attack start? It can only work when two teammates are in the break of the day, cant see that happenning with Saxo.

Solo attack from the Tonnale? The days of Virenque are long gone.

Mortirolo? He will not take minutes on that climb.

If there was a real climb between Tonale and Mortrolo it could have been different, Aprica is almost false flat.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Kwibus I would normally agree with you, but this is not the case. We're talking about two podium places, not a random 6th or 9th.
And this would be huge for both, especially for Landa, a rider who's got no GT palmares to speak of.

Say you're in Landa's position now. You're sitting in 4th place and you know you've got a very realistic shot at your first GT podium. How would you feel if your DS came up with a plan to send you in a suicide attack from 150km out?

It doesnt have to be 150. Mortirolo is 40 out. You put Astana riders in the break attempts all day, tiring saxo out, then you 1-2 contador with Aru and landa all the way up mortirolo until 1 gets free to try and catch the Astana rider in front.

At a climb like mortirolo the 1-2 don't really work so i don't think they can tire contador out doing it. They'll destroy themselves.

It's everyone for themselves, such a beast of a climb. The strongest will survive.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

It doesnt have to be 150. Mortirolo is 40 out. You put Astana riders in the break attempts all day, tiring saxo out, then you 1-2 contador with Aru and landa all the way up mortirolo until 1 gets free to try and catch the Astana rider in front.

I think some misinterpreted my original post then. I wouldn't classify an attack on Mortirolo as crazy, I was referring to sending Landa in the original break or any kind of attack much further out.

Attacking on Mortirolo is absolutely fine with me, although I'm convinced nobody can distance Contador on that climb.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

For some riders it makes sense, but it obviously doesn't make sense for Astana now. Who are simply very strong and Landa is feeling great so unleash him ffs.

Where should his attack start? It can only work when two teammates are in the break of the day, cant see that happenning with Saxo.

Solo attack from the Tonnale? The days of Virenque are long gone.

Mortirolo? He will not take minutes on that climb.

If there was a real climb between Tonale and Mortrolo it could have been different, Aprica is almost false flat.

Yes, we demand them to skip Aprica the first time and go over Padrio instead!

 

[Aguirre]

Landa is a super class, his body is not equal to any other climber, somehow it looks a bit to Chava Jimenez. What I mean: he is not super thin.
Anyway his climbing style reminds a bit to Pantani holding the lower part of the handlebar.

He did not a bad TT neither, considering what he has done before. And yes, he is as strong or even more than Alberto.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Landa is a super class, his body is not equal to any other climber, somehow it looks a bit to Chava Jimenez. What I mean: he is not super thin.
Anyway his climbing style reminds a bit to Pantani holding the lower part of the handlebar.

He did not a bad TT neither, considering what he has done before. And yes, he is as strong or even more than Alberto.

Landa is thin, but he is not tall, so maybe he looks fater...chava was tall...There are lot of clinbers that are notth in, are Basso, Cobo, etc.. but Landa it is...but he dont have a thin leg, by the contrary as other climbers as Contador.

That way I was always surprising he didnt TT, but after to see his last ITT I think he has the potential to do decents ITT, he need to work more on it. ITT need motivation, he is a riders that need inspiration.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Landa is clearly climbing better than anyone in this race. Astana should just let him off the leash even though he would still have trouble cracking Contador. Aru is not going to win the Giro so second or third, it does not matter. Only misfortune can stop Contador. It is ridiculous watching Landa having to wait for Aru.

Landa wanst yesterday very correct thinking in Aru, but I agree with you, the must unleash himm it is the only possibility to put contador ir problems.

But Aru is italian, and this is the Giro.

good thing some of the posters here are not the Team's DS I can read a lot of recipes for disaster in the page of this forum. Astana got a stage win yesterday and protected their second place not a bad deal in a race where the first place was never in question. of Course some of you would have like to see Landa play domestic to Contador and tow him to a victory at his team leader's expense but hey.. none of you are paying his dinner , Vino and Astana do.

As I said, Landa is almost a freind, I was close to sleep in his home in Vitoria once. so, I can be objetive, O would like to see Landa attacking from far and yesterday Playing only to take the stage.

But if I am Aru, I see Landa attacking, and when Contador was at his wheel and Aru droped, he didnt stop and put behind Contador always, or even stop a litte to help Aru. That dont compromise your stage win, it would be even better to be at Contador wheel to win the stage.

I prefer like this, but he was a little at his own, as Froome with Wiggo in the Tour.

if Landa can put 10 seconds on Aru in Campligio, in Cervinia stage he can put 1 minute, and in other stage as well he can put time, or even big time, depend on the circusntances.

With the numercial advantahe of Astana, Aru could be at contador wheel, but he cant put time on it, he showed yesterday that... but Landa could put some time, so it is the only way to win the Giro for Astana. but they seems prefer second and third, as Schleck brothers, with the possibility of a very bad day of contador to take the victory only with Aru.

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

Really impressed with his performance so far, but I don't think Astana is in for anything crazy.
They know it's unlikely to break Contador and if they keep riding this way they'll have two riders on the podium. Not bad if you ask me.

Yes it awesome to have nr2 and 3.

Let's not care about victory shall we? No we can't beat Contador anyways.. he is sooo mighty!
Yes he is, but if you don't have the balls to challenge him your just a weak cowardly piece of sh*t.

What if Contador actually collapses because of Landa attacking early? If you don't try you will never know it.

So easy to say when you are not involved and dont have anything to risk. A third place would be HUGE for Landa.

 

[cellardoor]

Re: Re:

As I said, Landa is almost a freind, I was close to sleep in his home in Vitoria once. so, I can be objetive, O would like to see Landa attacking from far and yesterday Playing only to take the stage.

Hi Taxus,

A few people are saying Landa is likely to be a "one hit wonder". As you seem to know quite a bit about him, just wondered what your views are as to whether he is likely to progress from here and get better or if this performance was a bit of a freak and we'll never hear of him again?

Cheers.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

As I said, Landa is almost a freind, I was close to sleep in his home in Vitoria once. so, I can be objetive, O would like to see Landa attacking from far and yesterday Playing only to take the stage.

Hi Taxus,

A few people are saying Landa is likely to be a "one hit wonder". As you seem to know quite a bit about him, just wondered what your views are as to whether he is likely to progress from here and get better or if this performance was a bit of a freak and we'll never hear of him again?

Cheers.

Look at what he's won and compare it to others.

What do YOU think?

 

[bala v]

Mikel Landa is a great climbing talent, he showed that clearly in this Giro. He could develop into a great stage racer, although TT will always be his weak point. And it's not that he came out of nowhere, he was a talented rider way back from 2010 when he finished 5th in Tour de 'l Avenir.

Those who thinks he is a one-hit wonder don't know much about cycling!

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Re:

Mikel Landa is a great climbing talent, he showed that clearly in this Giro. He could develop into a great stage racer, although TT will always be his weak point. And it's not that he came out of nowhere, he was a talented rider way back from 2010 when he finished 5th in Tour de 'l Avenir.

Those who thinks he is a one-hit wonder don't know much about cycling!

He has always had problems with sickness and injuries. This year it seems like he has been able to reach his potential.
Astana seem to be good with talented, but injury prone riders. Just look at Kangert, that has had knee problems all his career, but have been able to reach a very high level at AStana

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

As I said, Landa is almost a freind, I was close to sleep in his home in Vitoria once. so, I can be objetive, O would like to see Landa attacking from far and yesterday Playing only to take the stage.

Hi Taxus,

A few people are saying Landa is likely to be a "one hit wonder". As you seem to know quite a bit about him, just wondered what your views are as to whether he is likely to progress from here and get better or if this performance was a bit of a freak and we'll never hear of him again?

Cheers.

HI,

Landa is strong when he believe in himself, but he is quite fragile when things go wrong.

I remeber when he said: Tomorrow I will win (Estella, GP Miguel Indurain) and he was second, he was really strong.

He is strong in that way, but fragile when he has no continuity, there is not results, people talk,...

But he can improve and I think he can improve in ITT, but he is going to be always bad...

He is not Quintana climbing, but he is similar, he has that talent that just genious have.
he has the capacity, as Contador, that to be in good shape very quickly, other riders need time and races to performe well.

He had serius injuries, he was superb at the time he crash in Dauphine, he was very strong in a Romandie that the hardest climb would be non scored in the KOM in this Giro, he suffered allergies in a Basque country... he felt OK, no tired, but he couldnt breathe well...

I though with the time that he wanst a rider for GC, with some exceptions, just a rider to show some days his talent and to enjoy him. But this Giro has showed that without problems, with an strong team, without pressure, with motivation, and with an age when you start to be with the best, 25, he can keep in GC with the bestand even to drop Contador. Both of them won in Gorla (the most important climb in basque amateur ), as well as Amador, Purito or Sastre, it looks like is good to win in Gorla for the Giro.

But there are a lot of things to know about him, I dont know his capacity to leader a team in a GC, to rode with pressure, I just dont know, but when he is like now, he is really dangerous.

He has a lot of thinks inside to show and a lot of mouths to shut up, and thing the english word is rage...he is quite shy and quiet, but could be as well, strong in mind.

I think Quintana is similar in that, but I dont know if with Landa will work to have a team around him to win big races...I would like to know.

 

[cellardoor]

^-- Thanks Taxus for the detailed response.