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Milano - Sanremo 2023, one day monument, March 18

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Netserk

Netserk

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Obligatory link in this discussion: https://plataformarecorridosciclist...storia-evolucion-y-alternativas-al-recorrido/

grupos-msr-english-actualizado.png


The race has been fine as it is since 2017, with a very dense and tense finale. I wouldn't change a thing about the last 60 km, and I'm glad that they no longer finish on Lungomare Italo Calvino. Via Roma is just the perfect distance from the end of the Poggio descent. Le Mànie is the minimalist addition, significant enough to make a difference, but only just. I'd love to see it return (while the finish stays on Via Roma).

misa_manie_DWN.jpg


img_altimetria2011_big.jpg
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

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Le Manie doesn't really matter for the favorites these days. Back when sprinters were favorites it could make sense to go hard there. Now you just waste energy if you pace that. I don't think the top guys go over their threshold on Le Manie at all.

I don't think Affini pace will hurt Ganna much.
 
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gavia88

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Netserk said:
Obligatory link in this discussion: https://plataformarecorridosciclist...storia-evolucion-y-alternativas-al-recorrido/

grupos-msr-english-actualizado.png


The race has been fine as it is since 2017, with a very dense and tense finale. I wouldn't change a thing about the last 60 km, and I'm glad that they no longer finish on Lungomare Italo Calvino. Via Roma is just the perfect distance from the end of the Poggio descent. Le Mànie is the minimalist addition, significant enough to make a difference, but only just. I'd love to see it return (while the finish stays on Via Roma).

misa_manie_DWN.jpg


img_altimetria2011_big.jpg
Click to expand...


This is indeed a very good graph indeed, although it need a bit of an update. What it actually shows:
-Milano - San Remo never really has been a sprinters race
-The group size in the years between end of the 90's and the introduction of La Manie has rather been an exception than normal
-Every time the race became to easy and the group size at the finish to big, the organization added an extra difficulty (resp. Poggio, Cipressa, La Manie)

Considering the fact that in recent years, only small groups or even a solo riders arrived at the finish, it would if you look at the history not the best moment to add a new climb on the route. However, I agree with the group of people here in the discussion saying that, it's a pity it's only worth watching the last 15 min. Although the enthusiasm here about the fact that every scenario is possible, it is in fact always the same scenario. Unimportant early attackers. Peloton getting back just around the Cipressa. Tempo on Cipressa. Someone alone trying between Cipressa and Poggio. Poggio tempo first kilometers, attacks around the silo's.

The good thing about La Manie was, that there were always some gaps in the peloton and at least the race was worth watching for a while to see if some team tried to keep the second part of the peloton distanced. I agree that a combination of Cipressa + Pompeiana + Poggio is changing the race to much. However, what I would like to see is something that makes it worth watching a bit earlier than only from the Cipressa. The Capo Mele and Capo Cervo are just to easy, sitting in the bunch here is some much more favorable than any attack. There are several options and I don't actually know what would be the best (Civezza, or going inlands around the capo Mele, or La Manie), but it would be interesting if there is at least some little hill that can give some different scenario's within let say the last 60km. A group of B-favorites that potentially good be dangerous.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

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gavia88 said:
This is indeed a very good graph indeed, although it need a bit of an update. What it actually shows:
-Milano - San Remo never really has been a sprinters race
-The group size in the years between end of the 90's and the introduction of La Manie has rather been an exception than normal
-Every time the race became to easy and the group size at the finish to big, the organization added an extra difficulty (resp. Poggio, Cipressa, La Manie)

Considering the fact that in recent years, only small groups or even a solo riders arrived at the finish, it would if you look at the history not the best moment to add a new climb on the route. However, I agree with the group of people here in the discussion saying that, it's a pity it's only worth watching the last 15 min. Although the enthusiasm here about the fact that every scenario is possible, it is in fact always the same scenario. Unimportant early attackers. Peloton getting back just around the Cipressa. Tempo on Cipressa. Someone alone trying between Cipressa and Poggio. Poggio tempo first kilometers, attacks around the silo's.

The good thing about La Manie was, that there were always some gaps in the peloton and at least the race was worth watching for a while to see if some team tried to keep the second part of the peloton distanced. I agree that a combination of Cipressa + Pompeiana + Poggio is changing the race to much. However, what I would like to see is something that makes it worth watching a bit earlier than only from the Cipressa. The Capo Mele and Capo Cervo are just to easy, sitting in the bunch here is some much more favorable than any attack. There are several options and I don't actually know what would be the best (Civezza, or going inlands around the capo Mele, or La Manie), but it would be interesting if there is at least some little hill that can give some different scenario's within let say the last 60km. A group of B-favorites that potentially good be dangerous.
Click to expand...
Colle di Caso would be just before the Capi.
 
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rallybanana

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Netserk said:
Colle di Caso would be just before the Capi.
Click to expand...

I checked on google maps and that climb would add about 14km to the route. It's a lot of extra distance in a race that is already nearly 300km.

I've checked other climbs along the coast to check how much extra distance they add compared to traveling along the coast road.

Le Manie (from Spotorno) +4.0km
Le Manie (from Noli) +5.6km
Colla Micheri +1.1km
Civezza +7.6km
Cipressa +4.7km
Pompeiana +10.9km
Poggio +5.7km

Bypass Capo Mele with Colla Micheri and replacing Cipressa with Civezza would add just 4km to the route and make a more difficult section between 60-25km to go. The increase in climbing difficulty would be offset by 5km more flat before the Poggio.
 
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OlavEH

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rallybanana said:
Bypass Capo Mele with Colla Micheri and replacing Cipressa with Civezza would add just 4km to the route and make a more difficult section between 60-25km to go. The increase in climbing difficulty would be offset by 5km more flat before the Poggio.
Click to expand...
The problem with replacing Cipressa with Civezza is that the latter is pretty easy and with low gradients and that the flat section before Poggio would increase to 14 km. I think that would pretty much eliminate increased chances for attack on Micheri and Civezza.
 
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rallybanana

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OlavEH said:
The problem with replacing Cipressa with Civezza is that the latter is pretty easy and with low gradients and that the flat section before Poggio would increase to 14 km. I think that would pretty much eliminate increased chances for attack on Micheri and Civezza.
Click to expand...

Civezza might be pretty easy but it is still higher and steeper than Cipressa. It might offer better opportunities for gaps to develop.
Civezza from Porto Maurizio - Profile of the ascent (climbfinder.com)
Cipressa - Profile of the ascent (climbfinder.com)
 
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gavia88

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rallybanana said:
I checked on google maps and that climb would add about 14km to the route. It's a lot of extra distance in a race that is already nearly 300km.

I've checked other climbs along the coast to check how much extra distance they add compared to traveling along the coast road.

Le Manie (from Spotorno) +4.0km
Le Manie (from Noli) +5.6km
Colla Micheri +1.1km
Civezza +7.6km
Cipressa +4.7km
Pompeiana +10.9km
Poggio +5.7km

Bypass Capo Mele with Colla Micheri and replacing Cipressa with Civezza would add just 4km to the route and make a more difficult section between 60-25km to go. The increase in climbing difficulty would be offset by 5km more flat before the Poggio.
Click to expand...

You can replace the Turchino with the Bric Berton like they did 2 or 3 times in the beginning of the century. That will reduce the amount of kilometers a bit, to have some more kilometers to spend in the final. Bric Berton also is clearly more difficult than the Turchino.
 
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gavia88

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I think there is another option, instead of the Capo Berta they can climb to Gorleri (via Calderina and Serreta).

You have to cut some kilometers, so would be the following:

-Bric Berton instead of Turchino
-Colla Micheri instead of Capo Mele
-Capo Cervo
-Gorleri instead of Capo Berta
-Cipressa (normal variant)
-Poggio (normal variant)

A second option would be:

-Bric Berton instead of Turchino
-Colla Micheri instead of Capo Mele
-Casa Banda di La instead Capo Cervo (but this road is rather small for a big peloton)
-Capo Berta (normal)
-Cipressa (normal variant)
-Poggio (normal variant)
 
Boehmand

Boehmand

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vwpe said:
Nerds really need to let go of Van eart vs MVDP its beyond stupid....andsimply has no merit and its like you havent watched cycling at all ...


MVPD has kicked his ass entire life from youth and he has continued to doing so every time it matters in road too like at this point its beyond cringe and nerd worthy to even read the comparison he has kicked van aert ass entire career and still doing it.

Van aert a stunning rider a generational talent but MVDP is and has always been a totally different beast!!

Nothing new hes done it their entire career...The top lvl of MVDP is simply unmatched and theres noone even close the the power hes able to put out when hes in top form its honestly scary how strong he is when hes on, just amazing!
Click to expand...

Yeah, poor Van Aert... he only managed to beat MVDP in the very same race in 2020, and in Strade Bianche :D

The serious take is, that who has the edge depends on what kind of race it is... MVDP is a better puncheur, Van Aert is a better rouleur (and a better bunch sprinter and better on big mountains).

Also MVDP has the luxury of being a captain for 90 % of his race days, while Van Aert has to spend half the season in service of GC riders, so it would never be a fair comparison anyway.
 
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Nick2413

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Boehmand said:
Yeah, poor Van Aert... he only managed to beat MVDP in the very same race in 2020, and in Strade Bianche :D

The serious take is, that who has the edge depends on what kind of race it is... MVDP is a better puncheur, Van Aert is a better rouleur (and a better bunch sprinter and better on big mountains).

Also MVDP has the luxury of being a captain for 90 % of his race days, while Van Aert has to spend half the season in service of GC riders, so it would never be a fair comparison anyway.
Click to expand...
A slight note, Wout has one of the strongest teams in the peloton to help him. I’d imagine that played a part in why he selected them knowing the drawbacks. He still gets to ride for himself all classics season aside from a couple days in TA. I do think he’s spreading himself too thin with the Tour always back of mind to be his best in the classics though.
 
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