Mixed Martial Arts

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Re: Re:

StyrbjornSterki said:
Jspear said:
YES!!! Holmes beat Rousey!!

Amazing to see Rousey breakdown...I think once she realized she couldn't get Holmes onto the mat, she had a bit of a mental breakdown...just my opinion. Holmes looked so calm and collected.
Worst title defense since Don King persuaded Mike Tyson to be Buster Douglas's punching bag. Rousey made little effort to take down Holmes, she was determined to prove a point by finishing it standing up. Unfortunately, her only strategy appeared to be letting Holmes beat her face until she'd burned out her arms. Her coach should be fired (then shot in the head and his body tossed in a dumpster) for not persuading her to follow a different strategy after the first round.

That's one of the great things about MMA compared to boxing. So many ways to lose, so few ways to win.


This imo was her undoing. Honestly I think her pride didn't allow her to change tactics for the 2nd round.
 
RR stretched herself too thin for too long now. That works OK when you are superior to the lady across from you, but HH is unlike anyone else that RR has faced (experience, skill, athleticism). I agree that RR's game plan should have been Judo. Maybe RR and her team underestimated HH? I'm ready for the rematch!
 
Aug 9, 2015
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I'm glad it happened. RR saturation was at the end with me, with the mean mugging and greatest of all time talk.

Oh yeah, the double standard about her beating her ex BF vs if it would have been the other way around is pretty nauseating, but expected.
 
Jun 30, 2014
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Jspear said:
YES!!! Holmes beat Rousey!!

Amazing to see Rousey breakdown...I think once she realized she couldn't get Holmes onto the mat, she had a bit of a mental breakdown...just my opinion. Holmes looked so calm and collected.
The key was Holm's footwork, compared to her the rest of the division is slow and plodding. Normally Ronda just bullrushes her opponents because the have baad footwork and lack ko power or the accurary to hurt her when she closes the distance, but Holly Holm is a great counterpuncher and her footwork is fantastic.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Spawn of e said:
I'm glad it happened. RR saturation was at the end with me, with the mean mugging and greatest of all time talk.

The hype was getting a bit too much, it wasn't just in terms of MMA, it was also in the realms of the leading sportswoman in the world. Then the movies, wrestlemania stuff. Ronda's a great fighter but it was going overboard. I never like that domination in any sport, so I have to say it was good for the division to see it being shaken up a bit. Otherwise after this, we may have got Tate III. A rematch on the card for UFC 200 next July with Holly has already been touted around.

The downfall I'm looking forward to seeing is McGregor's.
 
R3's plan had been to take some time away from the sport after last night, presumably to focus on her acting career (which, believe me, needs the work). Filming starts early next year on the remake of Patrick Swayze's "Roadhouse" with Ronda starring in the role of female über-bouncer Dalton. But I don't see her walking away with the first "L" of her MMA career hanging over her head. I think she's going to adjust her plan and press Dana White for a rematch as soon as possible. Dana already has publicly offered that a rematch is the logical next fight for both, but the KTFO will get R3 at least a 60-day medical suspension, which means the shortest notice rematch possible probably will conflict with her Hollywood filming schedule. So the question then becomes one of, will she choose to focus on the new career, or on the current one, the one which she always knew would have a limited life span.

Either way, I don't think your Ronda Rousey exposure exasperation will get any relief. The rematch fight likely will be the most ballyhooed professional fight since Ali-Frazier, and her face soon will be adorning roadside hoardings (billboards) and theatre marquees everywhere.

I have to say, I really didn't think Holm had it in her. Her record doesn't show much as a "finisher." Before last night, she only had "finished" one of her four most recent fights (the other three went to the scorecards). And all four of those were after she had become a top-ranked contender, by which time she was fighting all top-notch competition. She was mostly out-pointing opponents, not finishing them (zero "finishes" in the UFC in her first two fights). And if there's anything certain about R3, it's that if you don't finish her, she will finish you.

Holm's most recent previous fight was against the #11-ranked bantamweight woman in the UFC, who fought essentially the same strategy as Rousey did. Not only ranked number eleven, but also 38 years of age. Not really a credible challenge for a title contender, right? But she stood directly in front of Holm for all three rounds, didn't work the angles, didn't bob and weave, and Holm still couldn't manage to put her away (unanimous decision to Holm from the judges). But the one mistake R3 made that Marion Reneau didn't was she kept. pressing. forward.

But I knew the greatest threat to R3 was from Holm's head kick (which is the best of all the UFC's women). She has shown susceptibility to them before, but no one previously had ever connected one squarely. Rousey had done such a brill job of anticipating how her opponent would come out in the last few fights, I had expected she would take advantage of Holm's reliance on the body and head kicks by coming out trying to trap a leg and finishing her either with a heel hook or knee bar. Why she didn't is a mystery all to itself.

That's why they call it a competition, not a coronation.
 
Oct 10, 2015
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Still no post-fight interview with Rousey? I haven't been able to find anything yet.

What surprised me during the match was that Rousey just kept chasing, chasing, chasing, trying to initiate an attack. She never once let up just to force Holm to bring the fight to her. She seemed to expend a lot of energy doing that, and in the end, it provided her no advantage.

As others have mentioned, Holm's 50+ professional fights coming into this, versus Rousey's 12, may have been a decisive factor. ,
 
Re: Re:

StyrbjornSterki said:
Rousey made little effort to take down Holmes, she was determined to prove a point by finishing it standing up. Unfortunately, her only strategy appeared to be letting Holmes beat her face until she'd burned out her arms.
Finally saw it, what struck me, as one who followed boxing for years, was that Rousey boxed like an amateur as soon as she got hit. She quickly found herself way out of timing, with poor counters, and almost pawing with some punches, with her feet often flat and out of position, all of which is an amateur recipe for getting KO'd.

Also, at times she was standing straight up and down like a stick through some exchanges, even trying to lean back and slip punches, which removes all your power and makes you an easy target for timed shots. If you watch the Thomas Hearns-Roberto Duran boxing match, you'll see Duran did the same thing. As great of a fighter he was, he made a huge blunder that day. This isn't to imply she should been in a full crouch Rocky Marciano style, just that she had no business "boxing" like that, especially to a taller, kickboxing style fighter. It was like she'd try to reset and fight like taught again from a boxing stance, but this process seemed to repeat itself. Stand in defensive position, then in exchange give poor counters then try to lean back and not get hit too hard. Over and over, until she was flattened.

I think the best thing Rousey could do now is offer Holm great congratulations, admit she fought a poor fight and the better fighter won, take 3 months off to make a movie, then start training again. She doesn't have to fight Holm again next. There's time for that. In fact, building her way back up to Holm might help her fighting, and the sport, which could lead to an even bigger payday down the line. She somewhat hinted at this in her only comments so far.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2589802-ronda-rousey-comments-on-health-after-knockout-loss-to-holly-holm-at-ufc-193

Oh, and she's still a better person than Floyd Mayweather ever will be.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2589844-floyd-mayweather-gets-50-cent-to-taunt-ronda-rousey-with-rocky-instagram-post
 
Jacques de Molay said:
Still no post-fight interview with Rousey? I haven't been able to find anything yet.

What surprised me during the match was that Rousey just kept chasing, chasing, chasing, trying to initiate an attack. She never once let up just to force Holm to bring the fight to her. She seemed to expend a lot of energy doing that, and in the end, it provided her no advantage.

As others have mentioned, Holm's 50+ professional fights coming into this, versus Rousey's 12, may have been a decisive factor. ,
You are forgetting about all of RR's judo matches prior to MMA/UFC. You are correct though that this is the first time that RR has faced someone with this kind experience.
 
Ronda Rousey: Suspended 60 days with no contact for 45 days; additionally, suspended 180 days unless cleared with negative head CT scan.

R3 had released one brief audio statement saying she was fine and would be back but seemingly confirmed she was proceeding with the plan to take time away from MMA. Now there's an ambush video of her but she keeps her face hidden.

This fight's finish was a dream-come-true for the UFC. If Rousey was going to step away from the sport, there was going to be pressure for them to 'vacate' her title and let the two top contenders fight for an 'interim' title. But regardless who won that fight, that title would be tainted because many would hold the position that Rousey still was the "true" champion. That's exactly what Daniel Cormier is up against now because he holds the LHW title that Jon Jones was stripped of for reasons having nothing to do with fight results. But no one can question the legitimacy of Holm's title.

MMA Payout notes that search engine data hints that interest in the fight was lackluster, possibly indicating many people thought the outcome was so certain, there was no point in watching. It will be weeks yet before the pay-per-view numbers will be in but MMA Payout predicts 750,000 PPV buys. But the Holm-Rousey rematch stands to be the biggest event in UFC and MMA history.
 
I agree with that last sentence, however I think it would be wise for the UFC to let things brew a little longer before rushing into such a rematch. Let RR make a movie. Let Holm fight someone else first even, even if it's a patsy.

The same might be said about Rousey, getting a tune up. I'd like to see her take on Zingano, who she arm barred in :14, but was supposed to be a challenge.

While everyone would love to see them fight again tomorrow, some to see "what should have happened" - and that kind of anticipation drives quick rematches, often unnecessarily so. If the UFC waits 6-12 months before a rematch, it won't hurt one bit.
 
What. a. shock. Dana White says R3 will receive "an immediate rematch" against Holm, except it won't be that immediate, because they've got to figure how to shoehorn the fight into Rousey's schedule.

Rematch or no, I think it would be unfair of him to ask Holm to sit idle for more than a very few months and risk "ring rust" instead of fighting another contender in the interim. That would run the risk of showing favouritism to a fighter not the champ, which isn't the done thing. He should at least let her fight a creampuff (not to be confused with a cupcake).

AFAIK Rousey only has made one further post on social media since the fight, and that was a photo of her (face looking none the worse for wear) and family at the Thanksgiving holiday gathering,
 
Finally Ronda speaks. Says she is really #&@%$ sad over the loss. Also says Holly knocked some of her teeth loose.

Meisha Tate is floating the rumour that R3 was having significant personal problems before the fight, implying that that was a factor in the loss. Knowing the woman's demonstrated capacity for compartmentalization, I don't buy it. I think it is more likely that 'Cupcake,' now facing the prospect of never being able to avenge her losses to Rousey in the octagon, is contenting herself with smearing Ronda in the media.
 
Rousey has given an interview to Sports Illustrated. In excerpts released from that interview, she lays her loss to being rocked in the first round (which split her lip and loosened some teeth), after which she says she was making "dumbed-down" decisions. And she also intimates that if she loses to Holm again in the rematch, she's done with MMA.

I guess it's all going to be determined by what happens in the rematch. Everything is going to be determined by that. Either I'll win and keep going or I won't and I'll be done with everything.
 
Well, she's right about that - the way she boxed. Her boxing was terrible, as I noted before. If that's what she means by "dumbed down" boxing like an amateur who would get easily beaten in golden gloves type matches, yes.

Also as noted before, the whole "immediate rematch" is no surprise either. It's typical shallow thinking, money first, impatient, planning. We see it in corporate upper management every day, and this is no different.
 
Re:

Alpe d'Huez said:
...Also as noted before, the whole "immediate rematch" is no surprise either. It's typical shallow thinking, money first, impatient, planning. We see it in corporate upper management every day, and this is no different.
I've not seen any formal statement to that effect, but the MMA forums are treating it as fact that Holm's camp is campaigning for a fight against Meisha Tate before Rousey will be back in the cage, which might be nine months. I don't sense a lot on interest in Rousey-Tate III, although that would change somewhat if Rousey were the challenger, but Holm-Rousey II is the odds-on favourite to be the biggest grossing fight in the history of the UFC. It will be interesting to see whether Dana is willing to put that at risk bu letting Tate be Holm's first title defence.

Getting away from WMMA for a moment, Jon 'Bones' Jones has put his hiatus to good use, doing an extreme amount of weight-lifting and putting on quite a bit of muscle mass. Which put me to wondering how he would make weight. And whether this is wise, considering how effective he was previous, and whether the added demand the extra muscle mass places on his CV system might hinder more than help. There's a picture of Jones here standing next to heavyweight gym-mate Andrei Arlovski (109 kg/17 stone and 2), and judging from that photo, with this new physique, I'd say Jones would have the devil to pay to make 205.

Dana White has been saying Jones is planning to move up to heavyweight. From what I've read it isn't clear whether he is speculating or if Jones has confided this to him, but that certainly explains Jones' bulking up.

Which further gives me to wonder if Jones' moving up will have a domino effect. One possibility I see is Daniel Cormier, who currently holds Jones' vacated LHW title, and who is a natural heavyweight, because of the bad blood between the two. Or perhaps Alexander Gustafsson, in pursuit of avenging his (controversial) loss to Jones. Or would Gus focus on a Jones-less LHW division? Regardless, if he is going to heavyweight, it definitely will be interesting to see how Jones' skill sets match up against the likes of Werdum and Velasquez.
 
Aug 9, 2015
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Who gives a *** about women fighting? Anybody in here pay for that? Rousey running around talking *** and mean mugging, acting like she's a model was growing old, I'm glad she got kicked in the face and *** up her teeth. If she would have gotten submitted it would not have been nearly as satisfying. It would have been even better if she would have got kneed in the face like Silva did to Franklin and she got her nose moved a couple of inches to the side.

If they were all made up in lingerie and couldn't hit eachother, and were rolling around in pudding or something and the first one that orgasms wins, I would watch. Other than that, I'll pass unless I am assured of seeing Rousey get her ass kicked.

The *** is on this weekend. We got Frankie vs Mendes Friday, Aldo vs Mcgregor and Rockhold vs Weidman on Saturday.

I got Frankie, Aldo, and Weidman. I am concerned about Aldo's layoff, and Mcgregor's smack talk tends to make me question who will win.

Who you got?
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Spawn of e said:
Who gives a **** about women fighting? Anybody in here pay for that? Rousey running around talking **** and mean mugging, acting like she's a model was growing old, I'm glad she got kicked in the face and **** up her teeth. If she would have gotten submitted it would not have been nearly as satisfying. It would have been even better if she would have got kneed in the face like Silva did to Franklin and she got her nose moved a couple of inches to the side.

If they were all made up in lingerie and couldn't hit eachother, and were rolling around in pudding or something and the first one that orgasms wins, I would watch. Other than that, I'll pass unless I am assured of seeing Rousey get her ass kicked.

The **** is on this weekend. We got Frankie vs Mendes Friday, Aldo vs Mcgregor and Rockhold vs Weidman on Saturday.

I got Frankie, Aldo, and Weidman. I am concerned about Aldo's layoff, and Mcgregor's smack talk tends to make me question who will win.

Who you got?
Same take on the women BS. So glad she got some taste of pain.

I like McGregor maybe because I like these plastic paddies. Going Frankie but have no take on Rock and weid but looks like vegas likes Weidman so that is my choice.
 
Aug 9, 2015
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Re: Re:

Glenn_Wilson said:
Spawn of e said:
Who gives a **** about women fighting? Anybody in here pay for that? Rousey running around talking **** and mean mugging, acting like she's a model was growing old, I'm glad she got kicked in the face and **** up her teeth. If she would have gotten submitted it would not have been nearly as satisfying. It would have been even better if she would have got kneed in the face like Silva did to Franklin and she got her nose moved a couple of inches to the side.

If they were all made up in lingerie and couldn't hit eachother, and were rolling around in pudding or something and the first one that orgasms wins, I would watch. Other than that, I'll pass unless I am assured of seeing Rousey get her ass kicked.

The **** is on this weekend. We got Frankie vs Mendes Friday, Aldo vs Mcgregor and Rockhold vs Weidman on Saturday.

I got Frankie, Aldo, and Weidman. I am concerned about Aldo's layoff, and Mcgregor's smack talk tends to make me question who will win.

Who you got?
Same take on the women BS. So glad she got some taste of pain.

I like McGregor maybe because I like these plastic paddies. Going Frankie but have no take on Rock and weid but looks like vegas likes Weidman so that is my choice.

I dunno I hear Weidman had to cut a bunch of weight. I still lean him but wouldn't be surprised. Rockhold is a beast. I'm kinda flipping a coin on all of them, they could all go either way.
 
Re:

Spawn of e said:
Who gives a **** about women fighting? Anybody in here pay for that? Rousey running around talking **** and mean mugging, acting like she's a model was growing old, I'm glad she got kicked in the face and **** up her teeth. If she would have gotten submitted it would not have been nearly as satisfying. It would have been even better if she would have got kneed in the face like Silva did to Franklin and she got her nose moved a couple of inches to the side.

If they were all made up in lingerie and couldn't hit eachother, and were rolling around in pudding or something and the first one that orgasms wins, I would watch. Other than that, I'll pass unless I am assured of seeing Rousey get her ass kicked.

The **** is on this weekend. We got Frankie vs Mendes Friday, Aldo vs Mcgregor and Rockhold vs Weidman on Saturday.

I got Frankie, Aldo, and Weidman. I am concerned about Aldo's layoff, and Mcgregor's smack talk tends to make me question who will win.

Who you got?

Well obviously millions care about it...I personally don't pay for any of it, but I sure did enjoy watching the fight. I don't care whether it's men or women...as long as it's a good fight. Woman are fully capable of putting on a good fight. Ronda talking trash all the way up to the fight is one of the things that made her loss so sweet. :)
 
Jspear is exactly right. There's only a handful of men in the UFC who guarantee as much gate as Ronda Rousey. She draws 3x the viewership that men's flyweight champ Demetrious "Might Mouse" Johnson does. And that's no hyperbole. If a Mighty Mouse fight is the main event, look for around 200,000 PPV buys. Rousey sells 600,000 on a bad night.

But I don't think it has anything to do with MMA skills, not directly anyway. I think a lot of guys find two women wailing on each other erotic. Same with women's beach volleyball. It's an opportunity to ogle scantily-clad women with very toned bodies without being castigated for being an objectifying, sexist pig (or having to spend a pocket full of coin ;) ).


That White chose to add a women's strawweight division tells me he doesn't understand that aspect of the appeal. Strawweights look less feminine than the bantamweights because at 115 pounds there's too little adipose tissue to fill out the bits that contribute to a feminine figure. Cover their faces and it would be difficult to tell them apart from 14 year-old boys. I suspect the strawweight decision might have been based on the availability of talent, but I also believe the UFC's P&L sheet would have been better served by a featherweight or lightweight class.


White rejected Holm's camp's request to fight Tate before the Rousey rematch. Lenny Fresquez tried to pitch it as being in Rousey's best interest, saying she "took a severe beating" and wouldn't be sufficiently healed by July, the tentative date for the Holm-Rousey rematch at UFC 200. But I think he's trying to get into R3's head. Her longest lay-off in the UFC has been the seven and a half months after breaking her hand on Alexis Davis' face at UFC 175 (05.08.2014), which required surgical repair. Provided her CT scan clears up in time, I don't think July is too ambitious.


If Aldo watched the McGregor-Mendes fight (and I think it's a safe bet that he did), then he has a road map to beating McGregor. But only if he's managed to get him out of his head. I don't know if it's just more of his customary bluster or if he has insider information, but Chael Sonnen is predicting Aldo intends not making weight.

I look for Weidman-Rockhold to be the fight of the night. I wouldn't risk more than a curiosity bet either way on that one, but I'm expecting fireworks.
 
Re:

Spawn of e said:
Who gives a **** about women fighting? Anybody in here pay for that? Rousey running around talking **** and mean mugging, acting like she's a model was growing old, I'm glad she got kicked in the face and **** up her teeth. If she would have gotten submitted it would not have been nearly as satisfying. It would have been even better if she would have got kneed in the face like Silva did to Franklin and she got her nose moved a couple of inches to the side.

If they were all made up in lingerie and couldn't hit eachother, and were rolling around in pudding or something and the first one that orgasms wins, I would watch. Other than that, I'll pass unless I am assured of seeing Rousey get her ass kicked.

The **** is on this weekend. We got Frankie vs Mendes Friday, Aldo vs Mcgregor and Rockhold vs Weidman on Saturday.

I got Frankie, Aldo, and Weidman. I am concerned about Aldo's layoff, and Mcgregor's smack talk tends to make me question who will win.

Who you got?
Ignorant, sexist remarks!
I've got McG, and Weidman.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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StyrbjornSterki said:
Jspear is exactly right. There's only a handful of men in the UFC who guarantee as much gate as Ronda Rousey. She draws 3x the viewership that men's flyweight champ Demetrious "Might Mouse" Johnson does. And that's no hyperbole. If a Mighty Mouse fight is the main event, look for around 200,000 PPV buys. Rousey sells 600,000 on a bad night.

But I don't think it has anything to do with MMA skills, not directly anyway. I think a lot of guys find two women wailing on each other erotic. Same with women's beach volleyball. It's an opportunity to ogle scantily-clad women with very toned bodies without being castigated for being an objectifying, sexist pig (or having to spend a pocket full of coin ;) ).


That White chose to add a women's strawweight division tells me he doesn't understand that aspect of the appeal. Strawweights look less feminine than the bantamweights because at 115 pounds there's too little adipose tissue to fill out the bits that contribute to a feminine figure. Cover their faces and it would be difficult to tell them apart from 14 year-old boys. I suspect the strawweight decision might have been based on the availability of talent, but I also believe the UFC's P&L sheet would have been better served by a featherweight or lightweight class.


White rejected Holm's camp's request to fight Tate before the Rousey rematch. Lenny Fresquez tried to pitch it as being in Rousey's best interest, saying she "took a severe beating" and wouldn't be sufficiently healed by July, the tentative date for the Holm-Rousey rematch at UFC 200. But I think he's trying to get into R3's head. Her longest lay-off in the UFC has been the seven and a half months after breaking her hand on Alexis Davis' face at UFC 175 (05.08.2014), which required surgical repair. Provided her CT scan clears up in time, I don't think July is too ambitious.


If Aldo watched the McGregor-Mendes fight (and I think it's a safe bet that he did), then he has a road map to beating McGregor. But only if he's managed to get him out of his head. I don't know if it's just more of his customary bluster or if he has insider information, but Chael Sonnen is predicting Aldo intends not making weight.

I look for Weidman-Rockhold to be the fight of the night. I wouldn't risk more than a curiosity bet either way on that one, but I'm expecting fireworks.
I don't find anything appealing about women fighting. YMMV

I think RR is hyped and I'm she got that face kicked in. Time for her to shut up.

I don't bet on any fights either.
 
Holm implied today that she would like to fight again before 9 months, but Dana White won't let her. You'd think the least they could do is toss her a patsy of some sort. White is too worried about his cash cow rematch, not thinking about any potential other fight might draw a gate.
 
Earlier today, Yang Jian Bing, a 21-year-old Chinese fighter for the Singapore-based One Championship MMA promotion died from cardiopulmonary failure stemming from his weight cut while preparing for a fight in Manila, Philippines.

Yang fought at 125 pounds. One Championship is an exclusively Asian promotion and I haven't been able to find any information about what his street weight might have been that he required such a drastic cut.

I've been thinking for some time the UFC needed to take measures to assure that fighters were competing at something representative of their natural weight rather than encouraging dangerous levels of water loss. They need weight controls just like they need PEDs controls. I maintain it not only would be better for the fighters, but also for the fans, because there is science to support that a fighter might not completely re-hydrate, particularly the fluids in the cranial vault, for as much as three days. As is, I don't think we're necessarily seeing them at their best. I would be interested to see statistics (if it were possible to compile) regarding fighters' susceptibility to being knocked out versus the amount of weight they cut, because one of the functions of cranial fluid is to be padding against concussion.

I noted at the weigh-ins for yesterday's Fight Night 80, Sage Northcutt looked a good ten pounds heavier than his opponent, Cody Pfister, yet he weighed in half a pound lighter than Pfister. I have to believe he was the significantly heavier fighter when they stepped into the octagon, all because he's 19 and still thinks he's immortal and was willing to risk the more extreme weight cut. It was the most striking weight difference I have noted of late, made all the more obvious because you could count Northcutt's body fat percentage on the digits of one hand, and have finger(s) left over for rude gestures, but Pfister's body was somewhat 'smooth.'

I know this runs counter to the grain of longstanding tradition in the pugilistic sports in general, but the objective should be determining who is the best fighter, not who is the best weight-cutter.

EDIT:
And Ronda Rousey has said she doesn't think July is too early for a rematch against Holm, and that's what she wants.