Moncoutie

[Netserk]

Please remember that the topic is Moncoutie. I know a lot of it are indirectly on topic, but this just serves as a reminder.

 

[thehog]

Hb is more reliable than Hct.

Floyd 2006:

29.06.2006 15.5 g/dl 1.3%
11.07.2006 16.1 g/dl 0.9%

Wiggo 2009:

Hb and Off-score (close to 100) peaking in the 3rd week.

Retics were 30% lower than baseline throughout the TdF (ask veloclinic).

My god. Those blood values just scream doping!

God knows why he released them.

No wonder Vaughters is against it.

 

[Galic Ho]

i have a personal issue if Sky and Brailsford, via Richie, or Porte himself, have sought out RR to ride his crediblity. to piggyback him.

when RR says "no evidence of systematic program".

ofcourse, this is correct.

however, there is no longer the leeway for a team to pursue a ONCE, Festina, Telekom, USPS systemic program.

so what you have, are the wives/girlfriends and max sciandri/rob hayles motoman mrs raimondus rumsas program. individual, free market operators.

The new systemic program, is the metaphor of, Command Control USSR to decentralise free market capitalism sole operator.

It's called game theory.

Your first sentence had occurred to me the other week but I don't have a personal issue with it. I am mindful that it might be there though. Doesn't matter to me anyway.

 

[Galic Ho]

. You said posters go after riders just for winning. Respectfully, winning every stage race you enter over a 5 month period which Wiggins did last year and froome would have done this year if not for having just missed the win at ta, is not quite the same thing as just winning?

Presumably what you want to say is not that clinic members attack anyone who wins but rather that they attack anyone who absolutely dominates ( in sky's case on an unprescedented scale at least for the modern era)

Of course the case against sky goes beyond just winning all these races on ridiculous never before seen half year long peaks but also the immense transformations their 2 big riders have underwent from pack fodder to world beaters.you do realize that right? Since you are bringing sky into this and comparing their achievements to moncoutie.

And I'm not saying David was clean. I thought maybe he was but if you say there is more to it then I believe you. It's just you are really underselling the case against sky. Its ok to believe they really have chanced upon the 2 greatest athletes in history, but at least aknowledge what the case against them is.

RR can always comment on Wiggins riding at Cofidis. It's not like he didn't ride his first Tour with them and get completely obliterated. Contrast that with Moncoutie. Which of the two was consistent and who improved beyond margin and did what you describe Hitch?

 

[blackcat]

It's called game theory.

Your first sentence had occurred to me(when i was messaging Dear Wiggo it hit me) the other week but I don't have a personal issue with it. I am mindful that it might be there though. Doesn't matter to me anyway.

*was lacking clarity.

i dont have a personal issue. i have no stake. i just got an intuition, that sky had sought out RR for their PR benefit. that is what is have an issue with. i think that merits disclosure if* it occurs in this scenario

*if. my intuition may be wrong. and it is my opinion that this is a point worthy to be upfront on.

 

[Galic Ho]

It's cool Blackcat. I understood you. You are just mindful of possibilities that are certain within the scope of Sky's potential and possible behaviour.

 

[Alphabet]

I would be shocked if it turned out Moncoutie was dirty. Not because I'm naive, any rider who has a career as successful as Moncoutie deserves scrutiny, but because he has often been held up (at least in the mainstream cycling media) as the paragon of clean cycling. As far as I know, unlike many others, there's hardly been a whisper about him and doping. Personally I hold him in similar regard as Bassons and so yeah, I would be really disappointed if I were to learn that he doped.

 

[gooner]

Moncoutie on Euronews.

Euronews: ‘‘So the future looks bright?’‘

David Moncoutié: ‘‘I wouldn’t say ‘bright’ but i think that the number of people cheating in cycling has decreased. In my opinion, it is possible to take part in the tour de France without cheating just as i did and i don’t think i am the only one. However to actually win the competition is a different matter. Some cyclists have special skills and we are all well trained but one rider usually stands out. We would all like him to be clean.’‘

http://www.euronews.com/2013/06/25/montcoutie-i-think-the-majority-of-them-were-cheating/

 

[Von Mises]

i was not able to find this last time i attempted to, but when Tombek was on Mitsubishi Jartazi, i think he was embroiled in some investigation. I like him at Cofidis too, there were years he was mixing it up in the bunch sprints in July, when they should have lent support to him, and allowed Ogrady to be a stage hunter. think Jaan Kirsipuu said, only clean rider in the peloton was Thor. Sorry, ONLY WINNING clean rider. winning was the qualifier. think its Jan Kirsipuu only one "a".

1. I have said it before, but I repeat here: I have never heard about Tombak and Jartazi investigation. I dont think it happened. Your memory faults you here.
2. Kirsipuu´s quote about Hishovd came in 2007 and context was Zabels confession (btw, Kirsippu thinks that Zabel is big liar). Anyway Kirsipuu said, that he thinks that winners of Grand Tours are all dopers and from those riders who are dominant in classics only Hushovd is clean.

 

[blackcat]

1. I have said it before, but I repeat here: I have never heard about Tombak and Jartazi investigation. I dont think it happened. Your memory faults you here.
2. Kirsipuu´s quote about Hishovd came in 2007 and context was Zabels confession (btw, Kirsippu thinks that Zabel is big liar). Anyway Kirsipuu said, that he thinks that winners of Grand Tours are all dopers and from those riders who are dominant in classics only Hushovd is clean.

and i may indeed have that wrong on tombak.

i wish cofidis put all support in him instead of ogrady in the sprints, circa 2005.

thnx for the clarification von mises <thumbsup>

 

[blackcat]

It's cool Blackcat. I understood you. You are just mindful of possibilities that are certain within the scope of Sky's potential and possible behaviour.

RR is dialled in. could be completely innocent and he is in and out of the continent on monthly basis with work.

there would be less than 3 degrees of separation between race radio and all players in the sport. Players. capital. or italics. so not axiomatically nefarious meta theme. and i dont have an issue with rr. has perfect disposition of cycling values in my pov

*whatever the heck cycling values are if they aint an oxymoron

 

[blackcat]

Moncoutie on Euronews.



http://www.euronews.com/2013/06/25/montcoutie-i-think-the-majority-of-them-were-cheating/

definition of cheating needs to be clarified.

 

[The Hitch]

Moncoutie on Euronews.



http://www.euronews.com/2013/06/25/montcoutie-i-think-the-majority-of-them-were-cheating/

Thanks for that gooner. Very interesting. Far more honest than what most cyclist say.

 

[notrolfsorensen]

Wow.... He's actuallty saying that the pointy end is still suspicious. I wouldn't have believed any former rider would ever have said something along those lines. Hats of for that

 

[Ney the Viking]

"we would all like him to be clean". Should that be read as "there is hope" or "but we all know that isn't true"?

 

[Mr.38%]

Yeah, the last paragraph is depressing.

 

[thehog]

Yeah, the last paragraph is depressing.

David Moncoutié: ‘‘I wouldn’t say ‘bright’ but i think that the number of people cheating in cycling has decreased. In my opinion, it is possible to take part in the tour de France without cheating just as i did and i don’t think i am the only one. However to actually win the competition is a different matter. Some cyclists have special skills and we are all well trained but one rider usually stands out. We would all like him to be clean.’‘

Sounds to be a poor translation but we all know what he's saying.

 

[goggalor]

Moncoutie on Euronews.



http://www.euronews.com/2013/06/25/montcoutie-i-think-the-majority-of-them-were-cheating/

Very interesting interview. Certainly comes across as more believable than all these guys saying "it's clean now". When all a person can say on such an important issue is a catchphrase you have to wonder if even he believes what he's saying.

 

[pmcg76]

Very interesting interview. Certainly comes across as more believable than all these guys saying "it's clean now". When all a person can say on such an important issue is a catchphrase you have to wonder if even he believes what he's saying.

Name one cyclist or official who has said cycling "is clean now", go on, I dare you. Many have said it is cleaner which is pretty much what Moncoutie said in this article so how does he differ from most other guys.

 

[hrotha]

Name one cyclist or official who has said cycling "is clean now", go on, I dare you. Many have said it is cleaner which is pretty much what Moncoutie said in this article so how does he differ from most other guys.

Many other guys say "Look at X or Y winning this or that race - that's proof that cycling is a lot cleaner". Moncoutié says "Look at X or Y winning this or that race - who knows whether they're clean?"

 

[Afrank]

Moncoutie on Euronews.



http://www.euronews.com/2013/06/25/montcoutie-i-think-the-majority-of-them-were-cheating/

Moncoutie just telling it like it is. Good to see.

 

[pmcg76]

Many other guys say "Look at X or Y winning this or that race - that's proof that cycling is a lot cleaner". Moncoutié says "Look at X or Y winning this or that race - who knows whether they're clean?"

Moncoutie seem's to be specifically talking about the Tour as he was talking about his own record in that race. He still seem's to have doubts about the guys who are winning the Tour and I do not disagree with this.

However, overall Moncoutie seem's to go along with the cleaner sport viewpoint. As usual I do not see this as a black and white issue.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

and i may indeed have that wrong on tombak.

i wish cofidis put all support in him instead of ogrady in the sprints, circa 2005.

thnx for the clarification von mises <thumbsup>

You make far too many mistake. imo

Women and children can be careless. Not men. Vito Corleone

 

[pmcg76]

You make far too many mistake. imo

Women and children can be careless. Not men. Vito Corleone

This is a strategy of course. Post something that is accusatory or insinuates something without knowing background facts. If nobody correct's it then it stands and will be repeated at future dates. If someone correct's the falsehood, then act all apologetic and claim you were misinformed. As you say, happens on a regular basis.

 

[Mr.38%]

However, overall Moncoutie seem's to go along with the cleaner sport viewpoint. As usual I do not see this as a black and white issue.

Yes. But while most seem to rate current cleanliness at about 8 or 9 on a scale to 10, his words sound more like a 3-4.