Money Laundering & Doping In Italy. Armstrong, Menchov named

[Polish]

"Driven over 500 cars not one RV"

"Weed Whites & Wine....."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yze10kM1fyI

 

[BroDeal]

This thread should hve been very interesting. Instead it is post after post of Polish' trollling.

 

[Velodude]

'Successful conspiracies have been confined both geographically and demographically to the smallest area and numbers required to accomplish their purpose. They have to be big enough to get the job done, but not so big as to increase the risk of betrayal.'

Ferrari appears to have disregarded the principles of a successful conspiracy. It was just a matter of time before a link unravelled.

Italian icon Sophia Loren served Italian prison time for income tax evasion. Expect Ferrari to run his 53x12 website from the inside.

 

[aphronesis]

This thread should hve been very interesting. Instead it is post after post of Polish' trollling.

it should have. and there's been only passing reflection on Menchov's situation. But it might be more honest to acknowledge that the bar didn't start very high as there were a few pages of the same old canned responses (many invoking Polish) well before he showed up.

 

[Polish]

This thread should hve been very interesting. Instead it is post after post of Polish' trollling.

Sorry, you guys can bring it back to interesting again.
I'll get back to workhere....

 

[Benotti69]

This thread should hve been very interesting. Instead it is post after post of Polish' trollling.

Hopefully someone comes into clean it up and throw out the trash comments as there is more to Armstrong on this one.

Menchov and Scarponi are 2 big names still in the peloton.

 

[Race Radio]

Does anyone think that a guy who barely graduated High School (GED) set up a global structure for transferring and laundering money by himself?

Of course not, there are people who do this for a living. Many of them live in Monaco.....

 

[thehog]

'Successful conspiracies have been confined both geographically and demographically to the smallest area and numbers required to accomplish their purpose. They have to be big enough to get the job done, but not so big as to increase the risk of betrayal.'

Ferrari appears to have disregarded the principles of a successful conspiracy. It was just a matter of time before a link unravelled.

Italian icon Sophia Loren served Italian prison time for income tax evasion. Expect Ferrari to run his 53x12 website from the inside.

The story in English: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...BoglhA?docId=6e9152afb40f4d699be5b2b3ed794fe4

Its hit mainstream!

 

[Race Radio]

The story in English: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...BoglhA?docId=6e9152afb40f4d699be5b2b3ed794fe4

Its hit mainstream!

This is a good quote

Speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation is still not complete, an Italian law enforcement official told The Associated Press that the Corriere report is "all true, and you can relay it across the ocean."

 

[Anonymous]

Comparing Lance to Saddam is not appropriate.
Just want to get that in before your posts get deleted by mods

Hes nothing like Saddam, I agree, Saddam had far more public support.

More like Comical Ali who, even when the tanks (of the illegal invaders), were rolling past him insisted they would still win.

Ive always seen Lance as more of a capone. Glamourised, Flash, Cocky crook who thought he was above the law. And we all know what happened to him.

 

[TexPat]

How do you say, "bags of money" in Italian?
Love the nicknames. Still, I'd rather be called H2 than Number One.

 

[Microchip]

Very interesting. Looks like things are warming up again. Linked articles are intriguing.

 

[thehog]

This is a good quote

So joining some of the dots here… and I’ll concentrate on Armstrong for the moment. It sounds like he funnelled money to the Swiss shell company to pay Ferrari. I’m assuming this money would have been winnings which were untaxed. Once this money was off-shore in Switzerland it was out of reach for the IRS or that the money was from winnings inside the EU which were also untaxed. This money paid for Ferrari’s services and for the pharmaceuticals. It sounds like that more money than was needed was placed into the holding or working capital account so it wouldn’t be taxed and Ferrari would draw down on it as needed. I’m also going to make a link here that we others came to Armstrong i.e. Hamilton and Floyd that he would arrange via this company for the purchase then sending (via FedEx) of the pharmaceuticals.

Question remains is this the same company that Floyd spoke about that Och encouraged him to push his salary/winnings through? That was mentioned to be UBS.

 

[TexPat]

So joining some of the dots here… and I’ll concentrate on Armstrong for the moment. It sounds like he funnelled money to the Swiss shell company to pay Ferrari. I’m assuming this money would have been winnings which were untaxed. Once this money was off-shore in Switzerland it was out of reach for the IRS or that the money was from winnings inside the EU which were also untaxed. This money paid for Ferrari’s services and for the pharmaceuticals. It sounds like that more money than was needed was placed into the holding or working capital account so it wouldn’t be taxed and Ferrari would draw down on it as needed. I’m also going to make a link here that we others came to Armstrong i.e. Hamilton and Floyd that he would arrange via this company for the purchase then sending (via FedEx) of the pharmaceuticals.

Question remains is this the same company that Floyd spoke about that Och encouraged him to push his salary/winnings through? That was mentioned to be UBS.

Ding ding ding ding ding!

 

[Merckx index]

Question remains is this the same company that Floyd spoke about that Och encouraged him to push his salary/winnings through? That was mentioned to be UBS.

Like to hear what Floyd has to say to all this. And Tyler. Though I don't think the latter could have testified about this before the GJ, because if he had, I assume this story would have broken sooner.

As hrotha notes, next to LA himself, perhaps no suspicious rider has dodged more bullets than Menchov. If his past results were nullified, who would be the big winner? Sastre, who would become the winner of the 2005 and the 2007 Vueltas and the 2009 Giro. He would suddenly join Bert as the only active rider to have won all three GTs. Wonder how he feels about that.

If Scarponi is implicated, could he face a lifetime ban? If his involvement in this doping ring were proven to extend back to this spring, and the CAS hammer comes down on Bert, could Nibali end up as this year’s Giro winner?

SI has the story now: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...g-physician.ap/index.html?eref=si_mostpopular

 

[Escarabajo]

It seems the only truly new information here is the thing about Menchov, and the rest is an interesting recap of the several linked investigations.

How Menchov hasn't had any serious trouble with the authorities yet is beyond my understanding. He seems to be involved in every potential scandal that doesn't quite explode.

LOL.

That's like 3 and counting. He even had a score of 9 in the suspicious list.

 

[Frosty]

If Scarponi is implicated, could he face a lifetime ban? If his involvement in this doping ring were proven to extend back to this spring, and the CAS hammer comes down on Bert, could Nibali end up as this year’s Giro winner?

Well, Nibali does deny working with Ferrari

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pellizotti-and-nibali-deny-working-with-ferrari

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Comparing Lance to Saddam is not appropriate.
Just want to get that in before your posts get deleted by mods

Polish, I think you may want to get yourself some help learning to read for comprehension. I likened YOU to Ali the Baghdad PR flack for Saddam. You then made a more direct reference to Saddam. But, try this on for size, "Little men always get their comeuppance. Always." (Evie in The Mummy) Which is to say, Polish, that the truth always comes out eventually and most often justice is done, one way or another.

 

[thehog]

Like to hear what Floyd has to say to all this. And Tyler. Though I don't think the latter could have testified about this before the GJ, because if he had, I assume this story would have broken sooner.

As hrotha notes, next to LA himself, perhaps no suspicious rider has dodged more bullets than Menchov. If his past results were nullified, who would be the big winner? Sastre, who would become the winner of the 2005 and the 2007 Vueltas and the 2009 Giro. He would suddenly join Bert as the only active rider to have won all three GTs. Wonder how he feels about that.

If Scarponi is implicated, could he face a lifetime ban? If his involvement in this doping ring were proven to extend back to this spring, and the CAS hammer comes down on Bert, could Nibali end up as this year’s Giro winner?

SI has the story now: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...g-physician.ap/index.html?eref=si_mostpopular

ESPN is now running it also...

It could be taken one step further. i.e. those once introduced (from USPS etc.) would then be encouraged to commit some of their prize money / salary / sponsorship to the same shell company. As it would be untaxed then the shell company would take a cut which would be equal than the tax rate as a handling fee. This way not only did the company assist in making riders/teams win the races but there was a medium sized profit in the skimming the handling fee from the top. The interesting part is riders outside the Armstrong net are involved. If Menchov had 2m+ in there then the company was obviously dealing in serious amounts of cash. Perhaps guys outside the Armstrong circle got the bronze service and not the high-grade Armstrong top-tier Ferrari service? I don’t know.

One question that lingers for me is why would Hog need to sell off the bikes to fund the program if you’ve got a holding company that could fund the operation? Perhaps the selling bikes paid for local logistics rather than the central operation. By local I mean flights to Switzerland/Belgium for blood extraction etc. rather the core service itself?

What does become clear is why this investigation is taking a long time. There are obviously many pieces to the puzzle and its being looked out in several countries.

As a final statement I understand now why it was so hard for Floyd and Tyler to admit to doping. As it wasn’t just doping they’ll be admitting to but an entire criminal network that they were party thereof (not willing).

 

[Race Radio]

American citizens have to pay tax on all income, no matter where it is earned. There is an exception for the first $110k but after that they have to pay.

It is not possible for Armstrong to earn tax exempt money in Europe, or any other country.

Bags of Cash.....

 

[thehog]

American citizens have to pay tax on all income, no matter where it is earned. There is an exception for the first $110k but after that they have to pay.

It is not possible for Armstrong to earn tax exempt money in Europe, or any other country.

Bags of Cash.....

This is in essence what I’m saying. The shell company was being used to avoid tax and they’ll probably skimming amounts from other riders which equalled less than national tax rates which provided the incentive. In additional buying pharmaceuticals from gross earnings is a lot better than using net income.

Bags of cash indeed.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

How do you say, "bags of money" in Italian?
Love the nicknames. Still, I'd rather be called H2 than Number One.

Ding ding ding ding ding!

Maybe bags of money translates to "blah, blah, blah..."
Did you not get a promotion from H2 when H1 left?

Like to hear what Floyd has to say to all this. And Tyler. Though I don't think the latter could have testified about this before the GJ, because if he had, I assume this story would have broken sooner.

As hrotha notes, next to LA himself, perhaps no suspicious rider has dodged more bullets than Menchov. If his past results were nullified, who would be the big winner? Sastre, who would become the winner of the 2005 and the 2007 Vueltas and the 2009 Giro. He would suddenly join Bert as the only active rider to have won all three GTs. Wonder how he feels about that.

If Scarponi is implicated, could he face a lifetime ban? If his involvement in this doping ring were proven to extend back to this spring, and the CAS hammer comes down on Bert, could Nibali end up as this year’s Giro winner?

SI has the story now: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...g-physician.ap/index.html?eref=si_mostpopular

I would argue the opposite, Tyler was with USPS & Phonak (& therefore Och) before Floyd, remember what Hamilton said in 2008:

"There's a mafia in cycling," Hamilton said to Velo News in 2008 after failing, like Landis, in an
aggressive bid to prove his innocence. "That's pretty much all I'll say about it; I'll probably get
banned from a race if I say any more. But there is a mafia out there."

 

[TexPat]

Maybe bags of money translates to "blah, blah, blah..."
Did you not get a promotion from H2 when H1 left?

Sorry, I don't follow you. Blah, blah, blah?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Sorry, I don't follow you. Blah, blah, blah?

A quote from Ochowicz about the Ballan/BMC situation:

“I know what’s been in the newspaper but I can’t read Italian anyway so I’ve got to wait for a translation anyway and blah blah blah.

“It’s got nothing to do with BMC. Not at the moment, not here today as I’m standing here.”

 

[ChrisE]

This is in essence what I’m saying. The shell company was being used to avoid tax and they’ll probably skimming amounts from other riders which equalled less than national tax rates which provided the incentive. In additional buying pharmaceuticals from gross earnings is a lot better than using net income.

Bags of cash indeed.

It is not possible to skim anything that a rider wins; it must be reported as income in the US. It would easily be confirmed as income of an American rider if the IRS chooses to audit. Having a shell company does not make LA winning the TdF and thus getting prize money not happen.

So, RR is right but I thought the amount was 80k tax free or so instead of 110, but who is counting.