Most overrated (good) rider in the peloton?

[YavorD]

How does that fact have any gotcha value? One way or another, Ciccone can't make it through 3 weeks in a good GC position. Doesn't matter why. "I had great legs, but..." is the story of his career. Note I never said anything about his ability over 1 day or 1 week.

But his abilities over one week are questionable as well. He doesn't even have top 5 in a big one week race.
Yet, people don't stop making excuses.
He simply isn't a GC (don't even mention GT) rider. Nothing wrong with that.

Edit' He does have a top 5. 5th inTA.

 

[Psycat]

Del Toro.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I changed my vote.

Opinion: Mads Pedersen is the rider of this season

The Danish rider’s exploits at the Vuelta a España cement the fact he is one of the most versatile talents of this generation – not just because of his results, but because of how he fights for them

www.rouleur.cc

 

[StryderHells]

Michael Matthews wins this hands down for me. He should have a much better palmares, but never quite got that Milan SanRemo win, Flanders podium or Giro/second TDF points classification.

He should of bagged a WC as well

 

[StryderHells]

Del Toro.

In what way is Del Toro overrated?

 

[Red Rick]

In what way is Del Toro overrated?

He's overrated enough that people think he's good enough to be named in this thread.

 

[Psycat]

In what way is Del Toro overrated?

I dont think he was all that close to winning the Giro in a weak field despite hearing how he would once he had the lead.

 

[Red Rick]

Del Toro is a great candidate, but the Giro hype has died down somewhat, especially after he failed totally on the Finestre, but before that the overhype was some of the craziest I've seen in my days as a cycling fan.

 

[AlfaLum]

Del Toro is not overrated at all. He had one mediocre raceday this season, but his breakthrough this season has been one of the bigger ones I have seen. Amazing rider.

 

[hayneplane]

Michael Matthews wins this hands down for me. He should have a much better palmares, but never quite got that Milan SanRemo win, Flanders podium or Giro/second TDF points classification.

I think he had Valverde syndrome of failing to attack enough to take advantage of his talent superiority at times.

Only 1 podium at Amstel Gold Race stands out as a race he should have won back in an era when the race didn’t kick off an hour from the finish.

 

[Brullnux]

At this point, it has to be one of the following (some of these are hot takes):

Ganna in ITTs

I don't think anybody sees Ganna in ITTs as anything other than the second best in the world, which he plainly is. Ganna outside of TTs is a better claim (though he's clearly had a bad/unlucky year, especially after April).

 

[hayneplane]

At this point, it has to be one of the following (some of these are hot takes):

Ayuso for GC
Remco in stage races (not in WC/OG/ITTs)
Ganna in ITTs
Roglic on murs

Ganna in ITT is one where I think he is just past that era of semi domination which tends to only last a maximum of 4/5 years. Tony Martin was very good against the clock then declined from the very top tier but was still a top class bike rider and valuable part of his team.

 

[Brullnux]

Ganna in ITT is one where I think he is just past that era of semi domination which tends to only last a maximum of 4/5 years. Tony Martin was very good against the clock then declined from the very top tier but was still a top class bike rider and valuable part of his team.

How has Ganna declined against the clock? He's come 2nd in the last three major ITTs, within six seconds of beating Remco last year. He's done one world tour TT this year in which he smashed the field.

 

[hayneplane]

How has Ganna declined against the clock? He's come 2nd in the last three major ITTs, within six seconds of beating Remco last year. He's done one world tour TT this year in which he smashed the field.

Hasn’t won the World ITT since 2021 and lost a flat TT to Ayuso in Tirreno-Adriatico last year.

Also lost the first Giro TT to Pogacar.

As I said still very good but not the top dog any more.

 

[Red Rick]

Ganna is barely considered as a classics rider while he's gotten the closest to winning a monument of all the non mutants this year.

Definitely not overrated, apart from me trying to meme a 2015 Dumoulin style Vuelta into existence.

 

[Brullnux]

Hasn’t won the World ITT since 2021 and lost a flat TT to Ayuso in Tirreno-Adriatico last year.

Also lost the first Giro TT to Pogacar.

As I said still very good but not the top dog any more.

The Giro TT was a hilly one, I don't think that one was a surprise. Ganna has a habit of occasionally messing up shirt TTs, he did it in 2021 in Tirreno-Adriatico too. And the reason he hasn't won a WC since 2021 is simple: Remco (and whatever happened in 2022). He is still a good distance ahead of everyone else, but one of the greatest TTers of all time reached his peak. So I don't think he's overrated, as he's just the second best TTer, and nobody puts him ahead of Remco.

 

[Peyroteo94]

At this point, it has to be one of the following (some of these are hot takes):

Ayuso for GC
Remco in stage races (not in WC/OG/ITTs)
Ganna in ITTs
Roglic on murs

What is the difference between Remco and Ayuso?

For me, the top 5 is:
1. Ayuso (he is highly rated in GTs but I'm yet to see him in real mountain stages that we normally only see in the Giro and Tour. Maybe if they put Purito as a designer again... that stage in 2015 was marvellous).

2. Mads Pedersen (he is nowhere near the level of Pogacar and MVP but some people talk like he is a real contender in monuments. And saw some comparisons with the old WVA. He is nowhere near the level of peak WVA too).

3. Remco Evenepoel (very overrated climber. He is not a real climber, he struggles a lot to be very good in the right moment. His climbing ability is far from his main qualities, TTs and classics that benefit attacks in rolling/undulating terrain).

4. Cian Uijtdebroeks (I will just leave this interview with Serge Pauwels - Belgium national coach:
The goal is to survive the climb with as many Belgians as possible, but if Pogacar attacks, the plan changes. If that scenario plays out, Pauwels is crystal clear: no one is to react to the Slovenian, except for Remco Evenepoel and Cian Uijtdebroeks. “This is a climb that should suit Cian very well,” explains the coach.
Everyone else is instructed not to chase. “The mistake we made last year, and cannot repeat, is that we tried to close the gap to Pogacar one by one. That achieved nothing. This time, I want the guys to race as a group.”
The guy is supposed to respond to Pogacar in Kigali! I can't even describe this. I really thought this hype around him was due to some diehard belgian fans but seeing this interview of Pauwels... Jesus...

5. Ganna (I don't want to belittle Remco at all but Ganns is losing flat TTs to a 62 kg rider and he is always viwed as an incredible TT rider and he loses a lot of TTs even with riders that are not TT specialists.
He is also very overrated in cobbled classics, he can't stay with Pogacar despite being 20 kg heavier.
Of course he is good but he is not that powerful. We saw how Cancellara could dominate classics, that's a real powerful TT rider. Now compare Ganna with Cancellara, the gap in power is massive.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I decided to exclude Pidcock due to this amazing performance in the Vuelta.
I chose not to put Roglic because he had a nasty crash in the Giro that ruined his season IMO.

 

[Brullnux]

I genuinely do not think Cancellara's total power over five minutes comes close to Ganna's. Cancellara's endurance and ability to produce it in hard stages is the difference. Besides, Cancellara had weak competition in TTs until Martin came along, at which point Martin would just beat him every time. If Remco hadn't existed, then Ganna would have 4 WCs and an Olympic gold in road cycling, but Remco came along relatively earlier in Ganna's career than Martin in Cancellara's.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I genuinely do not think Cancellara's total power over five minutes comes close to Ganna's. Cancellara's endurance and ability to produce it in hard stages is the difference. Besides, Cancellara had weak competition in TTs until Martin came along, at which point Martin would just beat him every time. If Remco hadn't existed, then Ganna would have 4 WCs and an Olympic gold in road cycling, but Remco came along relatively earlier in Ganna's career than Martin in Cancellara's.

Cancellara wasn't really investing in TTs in the second part of his career.

This is a horrible take IMO. Cancellara is probably the rider with most wins ever in prologues/short TTs.

Cancellara born in 1981
Tiny Martin in 1985
4 years

Ganna born in 1996
Remco in 2000
4 years

This argument doesn't seem accurate too

 

[Brullnux]

Cancellara wasn't really investing in TTs in the second part of his career.

This is a horrible take IMO. Cancellara is probably the rider with most wins ever in prologues/short TTs.

Cancellara born in 1981
Tiny Martin in 1985
4 years

Ganna born in 1996
Remco in 2000
4 years

This argument doesn't seem accurate too

Yeah because Martin started beating him.

Cancellara won more prologues because there were more of them in his era, but we can't view Ganna's ability as separate from the track, and he's the greatest pursuitist of all time.

The ages are irrelevant. Ganna was a part time roadie until 2019, and then he had two years at the top before Remco comes along. Martin didn't really reach his top level until 2009/2010, by which point Cancellara had had five or six years at the top. You're comparing early bloomer (Fabian) vs late bloomer (Martin) with late convert (Ganna) vs early bloomer (Remco).

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yeah because Martin started beating him.

Cancellara won more prologues because there were more of them in his era, but we can't view Ganna's ability as separate from the track, and he's the greatest pursuitist of all time.

The ages are irrelevant. Ganna was a part time roadie until 2019, and then he had two years at the top before Remco comes along. Martin didn't really reach his top level until 2009/2010, by which point Cancellara had had five or six years at the top. You're comparing early bloomer (Fabian) vs late bloomer (Martin) with late convert (Ganna) vs early bloomer (Remco).

You put Cancellara at his very best in any track event and he would smoke the field (bar sprints). Track is not comparable to road racing.
Calling Tony Martin a late bloomer is a bit too much. He was showing a great level when he was 24/25 years old. In the 00's/early 10's is not late at all. Cancellara was an early bloomer? In what sense? A RVV record holder that won his first RVV at 29 years old. Became Olympic TT champion for the second time at 35 years old. He has a lot of big wins after his 30's.
Mate, we can agree to disagree but you are giving incorrect informations. This is not an opinion, these are facts.

 

[Red Rick]

I genuinely do not think Cancellara's total power over five minutes comes close to Ganna's. Cancellara's endurance and ability to produce it in hard stages is the difference. Besides, Cancellara had weak competition in TTs until Martin came along, at which point Martin would just beat him every time. If Remco hadn't existed, then Ganna would have 4 WCs and an Olympic gold in road cycling, but Remco came along relatively earlier in Ganna's career than Martin in Cancellara's.

Cancellara's competition in classics also doesn't come close to Ganna's. And he was a weaker climber as well I don't think he ever competed in a race like Tirreno 2025 with a route like that.

And Cancellara did not produce much at all in hard races outside of the cobbles and Sanremo.

 

[Cookster15]

Yeah because Martin started beating him.

Cancellara won more prologues because there were more of them in his era, but we can't view Ganna's ability as separate from the track, and he's the greatest pursuitist of all time.

The ages are irrelevant. Ganna was a part time roadie until 2019, and then he had two years at the top before Remco comes along. Martin didn't really reach his top level until 2009/2010, by which point Cancellara had had five or six years at the top. You're comparing early bloomer (Fabian) vs late bloomer (Martin) with late convert (Ganna) vs early bloomer (Remco).

Ganna is an amazing TTer. But I don’t think we should be underestimating Fabian Cancellara.

Cancellara first came to everyone’s attention when he won the prologue of the 2004 Tour. But at his peak Cancellara was genuinely feared for his brute power. He also won the TdS on a flatter parcours that year.

 

[Brullnux]

You put Cancellara at his very best in any track event and he would smoke the field (bar sprints). Track is not comparable to road racing.
Calling Tony Martin a late bloomer is a bit too much. He was showing a great level when he was 24/25 years old. In the 00's/early 10's is not late at all. Cancellara was an early bloomer? In what sense? A RVV record holder that won his first RVV at 29 years old. Became Olympic TT champion for the second time at 35 years old. He has a lot of big wins after his 30's.
Mate, we can agree to disagree but you are giving incorrect informations. This is not an opinion, these are facts.

Track performances are comparable to road, you just don't like it. You cannot dismiss it, though, given they're as pure a power challenge as you get.

Cancellara was an early in bloomer in that he was an excellent time trallist by 23/24, which was young for the early 2000s. It doesn't mean that he was bad in his 30s. Martin wasn't a late bloomer, you're right, but he reached his top level at 25. But it's not really relevant aside from the fact that Ganna did have a better TTer emerge onto the scene at an earlier stage in his career than Cancellara did – which is undoubtedly true. The late 00s had a weak TT field, sort of like the late 10s, and then Wiggins and Martin came along. Ganna did not get to enjoy the same amount of time without a fellow generational TTer on the scene.