Motor doping thread

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

I find this one to be the worst for that, really.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone show the signs of guilt more clearly than the father in this video. This could be a textbook example of how (poor, inexperienced) liars act when they're caught--don't make eye contact with the questioner or with your accomplice. Keep your head down, don't say anything, pretend to be thinking of something else.

At least I'll give him a little credit, though. Unlike LA at SCA (or Trump any number of times), when challenged he didn't double down, going on the offensive, insisting on his and his daughter's innocence. He could have emphasized that gave-it-to-a-friend story, expressed indignation that his daughter was being wrongly accused, gotten angry. It may be a weak story, but the fact that she didn't actually ride the bike during the race has to help a little. He could have said, we understand that she is technically guilty, she'll take her punishment, but she never rode that bike or never would, this is an outrage, it never should have happened, etc.

That's what LA would have done. The only other explanation for her father's behavior I could buy is that he knew nothing about it, his daughter confessed to him just before the interview that she did it, and he's totally disgusted with her, but isn't going to make it any worse for her at this point.

Oooooh, I highly doubt he didn't know about it. I think he was part of it, and I am certain he was part of his son's EPO positive as well. Though if that's the case, and this wasn't the first time she rode on a motorized bike, the team and the federation HAD to have had some doubts and should have done something before. AND if THAT is the case, then the team AND the federation have to be investigated for further use of motorized bikes from other riders of the team and even beyond.

 

[Robert21]

At a press conference today UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) president, Brian Cookson, confirmed the bike the 19-year-old Belgian was riding, when she pulled out of the race with mechanical problems, was later found to contain a concealed motor.

http://road.cc/content/news/177183-mechanical-doping-cyclocross-worlds-confirmed

So much for the claim that the bike had just been left in the pits by someone else.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

“That bike belongs to a friend of mine,” she said. “He trains along with us. He joined my brothers and my father. That friend joined my brother at the reconnaissance and he placed the bike against the truck but it’s identical to mine. Last year he bought it from me. My mechanics have cleaned the bike and put it in the truck. They must’ve thought that it was my bike. I don’t know how it happened.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/femke-van-den-driessche-denies-using-motor-at-cyclo-cross-world-championships/

These don't sound like the words of a 'poor helpless female' pushed into acting against her will by the men around her, as some on here seem to want to believe. They sound like the words of someone who knows exactly what they have been up to and is trying, as best as they can, to avoid the consequences.

Maybe her dad pushed her to say those words.

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

Maybe her dad pushed her to say those words.

And, as a 'poor helpless female', she couldn't say no? How sexist! I wonder, at what age would you say that women should be treated as adults and not children, if 19 is just too young?

Maybe she and her brother are just pushy, ambitious types who have a weak father who just couldn't say no when his children said 'Daddy', you know I dream of being a cycling champion? Well I know a way you can make that happen and make me love you forever'.

Seriously, I do find the willingness to absolve this rider of all, or most of the blame, apparently simply because they are female, to be very much at odds with the attitudes shown when relatively young male riders have been caught doping.

Just look at all the suggestions that Armstrong was already doping as a 17 year-old triathlete. This was held to be proof that he was corrupt and ruthless from the off. No one suggested that perhaps it was all his mother's fault and that all he was trying to do was to win so he could gain his mother's unconditional love, or some other such nonsense. As as male, he was instead held to be totally responsible for his actions. In this case the rider is female, so all notions about modern women being independent thinking, strong and so on go out of the window, and instead the assumption is that she is the sort of woman that one might have found in a Victorian melodrama, constantly 'falling into a swoon' and letting the men around her determine her destiny!

Meanwhile, back in the real world, a male of a similar age to Van den Driessche was given 19 years in jail for simply hanging around with a group of lads, one of whom stabbed someone. No suggestion that he cannot be held to be fully responsible for his actions here (or strictly speaking, the actions of someone else) despite the fact that he is also autistic!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/how-my-son-got-nineteen-years-in-prison-for-a-knifing-he-didnt-commit-a6678396.html

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Re:

At a press conference today UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) president, Brian Cookson, confirmed the bike the 19-year-old Belgian was riding, when she pulled out of the race with mechanical problems, was later found to contain a concealed motor.

http://road.cc/content/news/177183-mechanical-doping-cyclocross-worlds-confirmed

So much for the claim that the bike had just been left in the pits by someone else.

To be clear, the complete claim is:
-At the end of last season she sold a bike to a friend (with the same height)
-Friend installed motor in order to be able to follow pro's on training rides
-This season's bikes are exactly the same (small team)
-Friend did a training lap before the W-U23 race, an put his bike in the pits
-Mechanics thought it was her bike, they cleaned it and used it throughout the race.

 

[Robert21]

Re:

Seeing some of her interviews its obvious the girl is as dumb as a ton of bricks, id be surprised if her IQ crossed the 70 mark. Its all the dad's fault.

I wonder, if it were ever shown that Wiggins really had been a doper, would people be as willing to exonerate him of all blame as quickly, after all, he doesn't come across as being the sharpest tool in the box either.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...

“If these are in widespread use remains to be seen,” said Cookson.

I put that into Google translate. I selected bul**** to English and it came out with "we have thrown a small fry under the bus, but don't worry we are leaving all the big fish alone - keep buying all your Sky kit and £6k bikes - continue to believe folks, we are not tainting the fairy story - I love my salary and perks - this gravy train has to continue rolling."

Brian is after all cheaters - we will catch you sooner or later! That is great news.

Quick somebody tell him, the guy on the right of him in this selfie got away with it.

So Bajrne, Canc JV and Hejersdal can get away with it, the Dawg has to put the brakes on going into bends on climbs - 6 years after the first video evidence of Spartacus pressing a button on a Sram gearshifter set that has no button in that location and the first "little fish" is caught - greased lightning, on it like a flash. No way is this girl doing it on her own, got be to quite some network behind her. Who did she see doing it first? When did she, her father and brother hear about it all. When did they witness one of the big stars getting away with it and say "we can have a bit of that !" Got to be some officials also involved, turning a blind eye.

quoted for relevance.
that selfie showing a corrupt UCI president celebrating two of the biggest belgian dopers ever really does tell the whole story of why that belgian girl and her father and brother decided cheating was the right thing to do. The corruption and cheating starts at the top and trickles down.

Alan Moore nails it:

Just as with IAAF, UCI, ITF or any other majorly corrupted body, anyone who reaches the top of the greasy pole has long before sold their soul to get the backing to make it that far. Whether it is to vested sponsor interests, regional bodies, clubs/companies, or anyone who wants a favour done, that candidate is tainted.
http://backpagefootball.com/and-then-fantasy-fifa/100033/

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

Riders already preparing for next years cyclo cross season

 

[frenchfry]

Re: Re:

At a press conference today UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) president, Brian Cookson, confirmed the bike the 19-year-old Belgian was riding, when she pulled out of the race with mechanical problems, was later found to contain a concealed motor.

http://road.cc/content/news/177183-mechanical-doping-cyclocross-worlds-confirmed

So much for the claim that the bike had just been left in the pits by someone else.

To be clear, the complete claim is:
-At the end of last season she sold a bike to a friend (with the same height)
-Friend installed motor in order to be able to follow pro's on training rides
-This season's bikes are exactly the same (small team)
-Friend did a training lap before the W-U23 race, an put his bike in the pits
-Mechanics thought it was her bike, they cleaned it and used it throughout the race.

It is amazing how cheaters can have such incredible imaginations. I could almost believe this, but I don't.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Yes, Sniper, that would be it. She did not read anything he had said because she is only bright enough to look at pictures, or like other critics she did not believe it.

Consequently she was deluded by that photo into thinking Cookson was running with the hare and it turned out he was running with the hounds. To mix metaphors, the wily old fox then turned up with some different technology and zapped her bike just when she believed doping Belgians were safe.

Come off it!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Maybe her dad pushed her to say those words.

And, as a 'poor helpless female', she couldn't say no? How sexist! I wonder, at what age would you say that women should be treated as adults and not children, if 19 is just too young?

At 19, although physically and legally an adult, people still aren't fully emotionally and psychologically developed yet. At that age, people still depend on their parents quite a bit. Yes, she will have understood the severity of her actions and the potential consequences, but I definitely think the father played a huge role in this, especially because her brother tested positive for EPO. You aren't going to tell me these two young individuals just did that all on their own. And her father's presence since this story came out makes it even more obvious, in my opinion. She shouldn't be left off the hook, but this is clearly not solely her idea. It requires a thorough investigation and her age should be a reason to go slightly easier on her. For the record, I am a young female of a similar age and judging from your username, you're not, so don't come at me with your allegations of sexism.

 

[PeterB]

Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

Riders already preparing for next years cyclo cross season

yeah, good luck trying to run up the hills and stairs with these bikes on your shoulder

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

Riders already preparing for next years cyclo cross season

yeah, good luck trying to run up the hills and stairs with these bikes on your shoulder

They won't need to run ,,,,its called a engine

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

Riders already preparing for next years cyclo cross season

yeah, good luck trying to run up the hills and stairs with these bikes on your shoulder

They won't need to run ,,,,its called a engine

True enough. It is. It might work in MTB and nobody may notice, but not in cyclo-cross. You can't ride all the way round, even with a motor, because of the normal obstacles!

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Maybe her dad pushed her to say those words.

And, as a 'poor helpless female', she couldn't say no? How sexist! I wonder, at what age would you say that women should be treated as adults and not children, if 19 is just too young?

At 19, although physically and legally an adult, people still aren't fully emotionally and psychologically developed yet. At that age, people still depend on their parents quite a bit. Yes, she will have understood the severity of her actions and the potential consequences, but I definitely think the father played a huge role in this, especially because her brother tested positive for EPO. You aren't going to tell me these two young individuals just did that all on their own. And her father's presence since this story came out makes it even more obvious, in my opinion. She shouldn't be left off the hook, but this is clearly not solely her idea. It requires a thorough investigation and her age should be a reason to go slightly easier on her. For the record, I am a young female of a similar age and judging from your username, you're not, so don't come at me with your allegations of sexism.

The fact her parents/ have not installed into her brains what is wrong and what is right is no an excuse for having a engine in your bike , how fu%%ing stupid do you have to be ?"
Taking EPO is a not the same. You could easily argue that riders are doping.
But to let yourself be manipulated by your dad into thinking a motor bike is ok , is not ok.
She should have a life ban. You can't have this sh%% happening in cycling and unlike doping, bikes can be checked and identified. No excuse She's a moron. Its pretty simple .
"Ride the bike with engine today" "OK daddy I love you" MORONS

 

[Tienus]

I tried to find a video that was posted on sporza yesterday after the Cookson press conference. Unfortunately I cannot find it anymore. The commentators and guest talk about how they dont understand it took months for this to come out. Apparantly there where rumours about her having an engine for months, I suppose since the koppenberg. They also confirm the UCI checked her bike after being tipped of and even mention the UCI is now quiet about this after claiming it was their own effort.

I can still find a video of de Bie claiming how disappointed he is about being conned by Femke. What are the chances that in the small world of cyclocross he did not hear about these rumours? I think he let her ride as she was the favourite to win the gold. Why did the Belgium team officials not check her bike, a simple hanging scale would have been sufficient for me to raise suspision. The UCI allready stated that this is an individual case and will not punish the Belgium team. In my opinion they should follow the rules and penalize the Belgium team, we all know this will never happen offcourse.

The discussion above about the effect of her entourage on her cheating is interesting. Its not just her dad, its her mechanic, brothers etc. She also grew up in an environment where her team, the Belgium national team and even the UCI seem not to concerned about cheating, as long as you dont get caught.

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

She shouldn't be left off the hook, but this is clearly not solely her idea. It requires a thorough investigation and her age should be a reason to go slightly easier on her.

So, those caught doping who are under 20 should face a smaller penalty on account of their age? Plenty of males under 20 have been caught doping and I have never seen it argued that their age justifies a lighter penalty.

Sorry, but it sounds that what you really mean is that because she is a young woman, she should get a lighter sentence. This is nothing more than special pleading of the sort that undermines everything that those who say that they want women to be treated as the equal of males are supposed to stand for.

Anyhow, my main issue was not with what you have said, but those who have claimed that it is effectively all the father's fault, despite any evidence supporting such a claim.

 

[Tienus]

I also wonder why her competition was so sure she was using a motor and not ped's.

 

[Robert21]

Reflecting on all this, I think that it is fair to say that the UCI would never, in a thousand years, have busted one of the 'stars' in a race such as the Tour or one of the classics for doing this, even if they knew that they were motor assisted.

Doping is one thing but to have busted one of the 'stars' for this would have destroyed any remaining vestiges of credibility that the sport has. As such they would have done nothing 'for the good of the sport', other than issuing a 'now behave yourselves' warning by busting some essentially inconsequential rider, in some secondary branch of the sport, as has happened here. To me this bust is strong evidence that motor assistance really has been in common use in the pro ranks.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

Riders already preparing for next years cyclo cross season

yeah, good luck trying to run up the hills and stairs with these bikes on your shoulder

They won't need to run ,,,,its called a engine

True enough. It is. It might work in MTB and nobody may notice, but not in cyclo-cross. You can't ride all the way round, even with a motor, because of the normal obstacles!

Seriously I post a photo of a motocross bike and posters want to have a serious discussion about its use in cyclo cross
what next

 

[Robert21]

Re:

I also wonder why her competition was so sure she was using a motor and not ped's.

Probably because they were on the 'hot sauce' but were still being left for dead, indicating that she was getting more power than even doping could provide from somewhere.

 

[hrotha]

Robert21, why are you trying to turn this into a gender issue? What's your problem?

 

[Tienus]

@Robert21
That is one of my theories. It would mean you can do whatever you want in cyclocross without getting cought.

 

[wrinklyvet]

No, Ray, neither of us was serious.

 

[Tienus]

I found the video I posted about 45min ago:
http://sporza.be/permalink/1.2560491