Motor doping thread

[Robert21]

Re:

Robert21, why are you trying to turn this into a gender issue? What's your problem?

I just found it to be very annoying that so many seem to be so ready to absolve this rider of most, or all, responsibility for what they have done, seemingly for no other reason than the rider is a young woman. As I said, I have never seem a similar reaction to a young male rider being caught doping - and this is an even more serious issue.

I guess that double standards, special pleading and hypocrisy just wind me up!

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Robert21, why are you trying to turn this into a gender issue? What's your problem?

I just found it to be very annoying that so many seem to be so ready to absolve this rider of most, or all, responsibility for what they have done, seemingly for no other reason than the rider is a young woman. As I said, I have never seem a similar reaction to a young male rider being caught doping - and this is an even more serious issue.

I guess that double standards, special pleading and hypocrisy just wind me up!

So far I haven't waded into this one. I don't really argue either way. But this rider is in a dilemma. It does appear that she could argue, in relation to whether the penalty should be the harshest or the least severe, that she was under undue parental influence. However, if she continues to allege, "this bike that was mine no longer was and I didn't intend to ride it" she can't really enlist much sympathy when the argument fails, as it probably will.

Very few people have nothing at all that can be said to mitigate the way their misdeeds are viewed and treated. The fact that so many have blamed the father reveals that this can easily be believed. But if she is indeed under parental control despite her age, she may be unable to put any blame on him herself.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Robert21, why are you trying to turn this into a gender issue? What's your problem?

I just found it to be very annoying that so many seem to be so ready to absolve this rider of most, or all, responsibility for what they have done, seemingly for no other reason than the rider is a young woman. As I said, I have never seem a similar reaction to a young male rider being caught doping - and this is an even more serious issue.

I guess that double standards, special pleading and hypocrisy just wind me up!

I think this is more serious than doping. imagine if this side "motors" of things started to get developed. Teams /riders started to find ways to beat the APP The UCI are presently using to find motors.
Frames/parts are getting so light that weight would not be a issue. Tech evolves and this "motors" is something I don't want to see in cycling.

As for gender. All genders cheat.
She can weep she can blubber she should be kicked out. Anyone else involved ,they go as well NO MERCY.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

I also wonder why her competition was so sure she was using a motor and not ped's.

Probably because they were on the 'hot sauce' but were still being left for dead, indicating that she was getting more power than even doping could provide from somewhere.

and pretty much why Cancellara 2010 raised so many eyebrowes.
jumping away uphill from your juiced-to-the-gills opponent without any extra visible physical effort, in-saddle.
you look at it, and it just looks physi(ologi)cally unreal.

See this thread for reference:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=29458&hilit=jumps

 

[ray j willings]

Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport has described a motor hidden in the seat tube and bottom bracket as ‘old doping’ suggesting that special wheels, able to produce 20-60 watts via electromagnetics and costing 200,000 Euro, are the most sophisticated form of mechanical doping currently in use in cycling

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

“I’ve sold 1,200 [of the old system] in Italy in the last few years. I can only laugh when I read the Gran Fondo results, I could rewrite almost all of them,” Gazzetta dello Sport quotes its ‘Mister X’ source as saying.

The source explains how clients buy complete bikes, often via an intermediary.

“The carbon fibre frame is opened, the motor fitted, and then the frame is closed up and repaired, painted and voila’… Of course there a risk a small defect can create a weak point and the frame opens up again leading to the rider crashing on their knees.”

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Wonder will Wilier Triestina sue?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wilier-triestina-to-take-legal-action-after-motor-found-in-bike-at-cyclo-cross-worlds/

Your question has been answered!

 

[King Boonen]

So, do we actually know the full story yet?

Was she riding the motorised bike in the race? Has anyone come forward to admit owning it? Was it a constant power motor (then you could argue she might not know) or did it have a switch? I'm sure there are more questions, but I can't seen to find definitive answers to these ones.

 

[Merckx index]

Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

I think it's kind of irresponsible of CN to publish that story without more details. Electrical wires hidden in the rear wheel -----> 20 - 60 watts? Something is missing. If there is current in the wires, that can induce a magnetic field, but you still need a power source to generate the current, and a magnet to convert the magnetic field to kinetic energy.

Anyone have any more information on this? Is the guy making any sense?

 

[King Boonen]

I'm guessing the idea is that the wires are in effect the coil, and they move to induce a current which charges a motor in the hub that can then be used as an additional boost when required, but my electronics is very, very hazy and it certainly needs more information or at least an explanation.

Seems to have been hastily put out so that they don't miss the boat...

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Reflecting on all this, I think that it is fair to say that the UCI would never, in a thousand years, have busted one of the 'stars' in a race such as the Tour or one of the classics for doing this, even if they knew that they were motor assisted.

Doping is one thing but to have busted one of the 'stars' for this would have destroyed any remaining vestiges of credibility that the sport has. As such they would have done nothing 'for the good of the sport', other than issuing a 'now behave yourselves' warning by busting some essentially inconsequential rider, in some secondary branch of the sport, as has happened here. To me this bust is strong evidence that motor assistance really has been in common use in the pro ranks.

What are the "remaining vestiges of credibility that the sport has" or who are the "remaining vestiges of credibility that the sport has", because i don't see any in the professional arena?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Wonder will Wilier Triestina sue?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wilier-triestina-to-take-legal-action-after-motor-found-in-bike-at-cyclo-cross-worlds/

Your question has been answered!

You know i always found it distasteful that the cycling industry manufacturers ignored the cheating in the sport. Now when it comes to directly be linked to their product they sit up and get legal. No sympathy for Wilier.

 

[Tienus]

This story confirms that the UCI could not sweep this one under the carpet:

http://www.1limburg.nl/stultiens-ontving-foto-van-verdacht-frame-met-motortje?context=section-2

A dutch rider was shown a photo of Femke her motorized bike a day before the race. The downtube was larger than on her other bikes.

 

[Tienus]

@ Benotti
I dont think they will sue her. They just try to get maximum brand exposure from this incident.
For brand awareness this is good for willier even thought its negative news.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

@ Benotti
I dont think they will sue her. They just try to get maximum brand exposure from this incident.
For brand awareness this is good for willier even thought its negative news.

I think they might if they have good legal cause and yes they are also making hay out of it.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Saw this story this morning on the BBC.

Knew it was coming one day, still a very sad day.

A life ban is an appropriate sanction for mechanical doping. (IMHO a life ban, reduced to a significant ban say 8 ish years, for full co-operation)
There is a deliberate series of acts to get to the point of using it in a race. It very egragarious cheating.

That's the rider and staff as well

 

[Robert21]

Re:

I'm guessing the idea is that the wires are in effect the coil, and they move to induce a current which charges a motor in the hub that can then be used as an additional boost when required

I would think it more likely that the set up would be a form of brushless DC induction motor, with the wires in the wheels forming the rotating armature, driven by electronically-controlled stator coils set into the rear fork blades.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I'm guessing the idea is that the wires are in effect the coil, and they move to induce a current which charges a motor in the hub that can then be used as an additional boost when required

I would think it more likely that the set up would be a form of brushless DC induction motor, with the wires in the wheels forming the rotating armature, driven by electronically-controlled stator coils set into the rear fork blades.

That would require the wires to be the magnet wouldn't it? Is that possible? It would also require power to both the wires and the stator coils wouldn't it? Also, aren't the stator coils usually surrounding the whole magnet? would 2 (or 4 if you place then in the seat-stays and the chainstays) stator coils be enough to drive such a device?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Wonder will Wilier Triestina sue?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wilier-triestina-to-take-legal-action-after-motor-found-in-bike-at-cyclo-cross-worlds/

Your question has been answered!

You know i always found it distasteful that the cycling industry manufacturers ignored the cheating in the sport. Now when it comes to directly be linked to their product they sit up and get legal. No sympathy for Wilier.

I've never really paid it much attention to be honest. I guess it's the same problem anyone who wants to sponsor professional sport comes up against, with the added problem that they can't really sponsor any sport other than cycling. They're kind of stuck in that regard.

 

[frenchfry]

Re: Re:

Robert21, why are you trying to turn this into a gender issue? What's your problem?

I just found it to be very annoying that so many seem to be so ready to absolve this rider of most, or all, responsibility for what they have done, seemingly for no other reason than the rider is a young woman. As I said, I have never seem a similar reaction to a young male rider being caught doping - and this is an even more serious issue.

I guess that double standards, special pleading and hypocrisy just wind me up!

Are you familiar with the Geneviève Jeanson story? Young women can be victims of abusive men.

 

[Merckx index]

If you're generating current in the wires by rotating them in a magnetic field, then I assume there has to be a motor in the hub, running off this current. From what I've read, a motor generating that much power is virtually impossible to hide there--that's why the bottom bracket setup has been more popular.

 

[Cloxxki]

How is it even possible when there are obviously 2 generations in the seat, that UCI doens't insist daughter and father come to seperate locations to do their story? How is it possible that after a brother was already doped, there is no sports psychologist on the case?
Invite the rider to a meeting, explain she'll get a lifetime ban and will be used as the symbol of cheating in all sports, the shame of her sport, country, and humanity. Unless she cuts the crap, she will lose all performance ever and a 2 year ban. Then to ride again with he dad having a restraining order on all of sports.

 

[joe_papp]

Re: Re:

I also wonder why her competition was so sure she was using a motor and not ped's.

Probably because they were on the 'hot sauce' but were still being left for dead, indicating that she was getting more power than even doping could provide from somewhere.

and pretty much why Cancellara 2010 raised so many eyebrowes.
jumping away uphill from your juiced-to-the-gills opponent without any extra visible physical effort, in-saddle.
you look at it, and it just looks physi(ologi)cally unreal.

See this thread for reference:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=29458&hilit=jumps

I now think it's totally plausible that Cancellara #motodoped his way to those Classics wins!

W/r/t Femke Van Den Driessche, however...while she's not as hot as Bo Carless (http://images54.fotki.com/v1615/photos/9/1750089/9525678/IMG_0524-vi.jpg), I think the case could be made that she still could be perceived in some quarters as being "cycling-hot" enough to somehow evade responsibility for all this.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

If you're generating current in the wires by rotating them in a magnetic field, then I assume there has to be a motor in the hub, running off this current. From what I've read, a motor generating that much power is virtually impossible to hide there--that's why the bottom bracket setup has been more popular.

No idea about that fella. We certainly need more information.

 

[hrotha]

Hey Joe, did people talk much about your looks as your own scandals unfolded?